Tim Murray said that once Gilroy and Turris "got on the program", they'd come back stronger and better. With respect to the Sens, I know they spent more this year than ever because Bryan was visibly angry watching practices last year and seeing guys lag on the ice.
Turris didn't need to "get the program". He has natural offensive ability at the NHL level showed from game one. Gilroy has done jack **** since day one. Don't try and tell me Tampa Bay couldn't use a good offensive d-man. Are they intent on keeping the marvel known as Marc-Andre Bergeron?
Way I see it, Murray just wanting to get rid of Lee, for his own selfish reasons.
Exactly. I'm shocked there aren't more people who feel this way. Must be alot of Brian Lee hate/Murray homers out there. He is supposed to add offensive balance and thus far he would be at best a minor upgrade on Brian Lee in that regard. Defensively he hasn't been a huge liability, but has been bailed out at least a few times by Bishop/Lehner due to his bad pinches. NYR game he wasn't that bad though defensively.
I want a defenseman that knows when to pinch, not a d-man that just does it because.... My main problem is the fact we traded a young solid d-man on good contract for him.
There are a lot of people that think we traded a young, borderline/barely-an-NHLer for him. That's probably why you're shocked more people don't feel that way.
Is Gilroy a great defenceman? Obviously not. Does he have a future here? Who knows. But if you ask me if he's better then Lee was, I'll say "Yes, Absolutely" every time. We traded a garbage-time defenceman making exactly what he was worth for him.
Turris didn't need to "get the program". He has natural offensive ability at the NHL level showed from game one. Gilroy has done jack **** since day one. Don't try and tell me Tampa Bay couldn't use a good offensive d-man. Are they intent on keeping the marvel known as Marc-Andre Bergeron?
Way I see it, Murray just wanting to get rid of Lee, for his own selfish reasons.
I'm pretty sure with how we've ended up this year that Murray kind of gets the benefit of the doubt, especially when it's been like 5 games since the trade and they are 3-2 beating both of the top teams in the East in the process.
There are a lot of people that think we traded a young, borderline/barely-an-NHLer for him. That's probably why you're shocked more people don't feel that way.
He doesn't seem to be a barely NHL-er on Tampa Bay thus far. We will see...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensfanman
I'm pretty sure with how we've ended up this year that Murray kind of gets the benefit of the doubt, especially when it's been like 5 games since the trade and they are 3-2 beating both of the top teams in the East in the process.
And Gilroy was such an orchestral part of that? We would have won and likely been better with Carkner in the lineup. Gilroy did terrible on his opportunites, at least Carkner would throw it to the net.
Not really. Chicago got Nick Leddy back in that deal. If we got a guy like Bogosian or Shatenkirk back in the deal than yes it would be a good analogy.
Anyways, the "I think he has more potential" comments are puzzling. Gilroy turns 28 in June. He seemingly has a lot of tools that offensive defenders need like good straight line speed, a hard shot and some size. Problem is his decision making is not good enough to be the type of defenseman he wants to be. He's slow at reading the play, which puts him behind the play when it goes the other way and shooting lanes close before he gets his shot off. That's one of the few things you can't teach players. If it was all fitness and positioning he needed to work on then there would still be hope but at 28 his instincts aren't going to improve enough for him to be much of an attacker.
Exactly. I'm shocked there aren't more people who feel this way. Must be alot of Brian Lee hate/Murray homers out there. He is supposed to add offensive balance and thus far he would be at best a minor upgrade on Brian Lee in that regard. Defensively he hasn't been a huge liability, but has been bailed out at least a few times by Bishop/Lehner due to his bad pinches. NYR game he wasn't that bad though defensively.
I want a defenseman that knows when to pinch, not a d-man that just does it because.... My main problem is the fact we traded a young solid d-man on good contract for him.
No one is saying Gilroy is amazing. He is an ok 6th D with potential.....
Better than Lee or Carkner have been. Maybe Carkner should get some slack because of his injury but in no way IMO is gilroy worst than either. They all suck that's why also no one else including Tampa fans gave a shot about this trade.
You haters just have no one else to complain about, so you ***** about our 6th D not being a 4th skilled guy.......
No one is saying Gilroy is amazing. He is an ok 6th D with potential.....
Better than Lee or Carkner have been. Maybe Carkner should get some slack because of his injury but in no way IMO is gilroy worst than either. They all suck that's why also no one else including Tampa fans gave a shot about this trade.
You haters just have no one else to complain about, so you ***** about our 6th D not being a 4th skilled guy.......
He doesn't seem to be a barely NHL-er on Tampa Bay thus far. We will see...
Have you seen the depth they currently have on their defence?
Heck, I am one injury away from a call up.
Gilroy right now is pretty much a barely-an-NHLer, but he suits our system better than Lee ever did.
Whatever, like you said, we'll see how it works out.
I just think people overreact when they get all sentimental about Brian Frigging Lee. I don't recall anyone sad the day we didn't re-sign Ricard Persson or John Gruden. All of these guys are barely footnotes in Senators history, the only thing that separates Lee from the pack is he cost us more to acquire.
No one is saying Gilroy is amazing. He is an ok 6th D with potential.....
Better than Lee or Carkner have been. Maybe Carkner should get some slack because of his injury but in no way IMO is gilroy worst than either. They all suck that's why also no one else including Tampa fans gave a shot about this trade.
You haters just have no one else to complain about, so you ***** about our 6th D not being a 4th skilled guy.......
No, we complain cause Lee is more reliable. I didn't cringe everytime Lee was on the ice.
Turris didn't need to "get the program". He has natural offensive ability at the NHL level showed from game one. Gilroy has done jack **** since day one. Don't try and tell me Tampa Bay couldn't use a good offensive d-man. Are they intent on keeping the marvel known as Marc-Andre Bergeron?
Way I see it, Murray just wanting to get rid of Lee, for his own selfish reasons.
I'm referring to off-season weight training and conditioning. Two areas that BOTH Gilroy and Turris could work on.
But don't let that stop your senseless rant against our 6th defenceman.
Turris didn't need to "get the program". He has natural offensive ability at the NHL level showed from game one. Gilroy has done jack **** since day one. Don't try and tell me Tampa Bay couldn't use a good offensive d-man. Are they intent on keeping the marvel known as Marc-Andre Bergeron?
Way I see it, Murray just wanting to get rid of Lee, for his own selfish reasons.
IMO it was a way that 2 GM's took the pressure off themselves well knowing that it is easier to not re-sign them if they have only been in the organization for a short time. Lee was in the organization since 2005. Pretty tough to say we don't want you anymore. It was obvious for a while now that Lee wasn't in their long term plans so this was a way to move players on for both teams. Remember that when Gilroy won the Hobey Baker that he was just about 25. Do you get much better after 25? He was playing against many 18-22 year olds so he certainly had more maturity and experience. He also had many good players around him when they won the Frozen Four. I think Gilroy will be at best be a bottom pairing guy because of his defensive liabilities.
I was a Lee supporter... I wasnt a huge fan of the trade but definately understand it with the way Mac wants our team to play.... but there have been a few WTF moments thru his first 3-4 games...
Last night's was the most glaring when he completely left the puck carrier to go to the other side of the net... Letting the guy walk right in on Bishop... It was funny because it didnt cost the team....
Who decided age was the only relevant factor in whether or not a player has potential or not? Gilroy hasn't been in the NHL for very long, it doesn't really matter how old he is.
Who decided age was the only relevant factor in whether or not a player has potential or not? Gilroy hasn't been in the NHL for very long, it doesn't really matter how old he is.
Motor skills peak when you are 25 or so. Once you hit 30, they slowly start going downhill. It's not really up for debate. Gilroy has peaked.
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Originally Posted by Ice-Tray
For some, there just always has to be something to complain about.
That's just the way it is...
Until you are the cup champs, there is always something you can improve
Trading a reliable defensive d-man for d-man who really isn't good at anything is a pretty dumb move.
On a hockey message board, people will complain about dumb moves.
"Trading a reliable defensive d-man for d-man who really isn't good at anything" reflects your personal opinion on two players who were involved in a trade.
On a hockey message board, people will complain about how their personal opinions are better than those of others.
Stamkos, Spezza, and other guys often spend their offseasons training with the physical man-beast known as Gary Roberts. Roberts is well known for being an extreme fitness & conditioning expert and he beats the crap out of guys.
You can actually see how Spezza's game changed when he started working out with him at the beginning of last season.
IIRC, Spezza has been working out with Gary Roberts in the off-seasons since his early 20s.
I was a Lee supporter... I wasnt a huge fan of the trade but definately understand it with the way Mac wants our team to play.... but there have been a few WTF moments thru his first 3-4 games...
Last night's was the most glaring when he completely left the puck carrier to go to the other side of the net... Letting the guy walk right in on Bishop... It was funny because it didnt cost the team....
Yet, he also made a great pinch forcing the turnover to JOB that lead to the game-winning goal but I guess no one will want to point that out because it doesn't fit their directive.
