People realize that this team will likely need a top-5 pick in order to select a Galchenyuk or Girgorenko, and despite what you may believe, the Leafs do have a chance to select top-5.
I think it's more of the fact people are stupid enough to not see this or maybe it's particular individuals, not naming anyone. You can't name any names which I asked so you think I'm arguing for the sake of arguing, I'm arguing on the stance of my facts.
This team needs a #1 centre to legitimately compete. The only way we're going to get one without getting rid of the rest of the team is to draft one. If we tank this year, then the sooner said player will be on our team. That's just the way it is.
A team can legitimately compete (stanley cup compete or playoff compete) without a #1 center in other ways barring that they change the system they play, or improve the cast of the team (both core and supporting). Bruins won a cup without a true #1 center, Krecji and Bergeron are very good centers but aren't legitimate #1 guys. Teams like St.Louis (unless people are dumb enough to think Backes is a #1 center), PHX, Bruins, Florida, Nashville, New Jersey, and Winnipeg are competing for the most part.
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You said that we need to think about the present, and then you said that we should look to acquire a #1 centre by selecting #1 or #2 in a future draft. I don't think you realize how dumb that sounds.
My argument with another poster was about that he had no problem grooming the next hot shot prospect at the expense of ignoring the present needs of the team. He can't just stand and wait for the guy to develop, he needs to make some moves that help the team now as well. I did not say that we should look to acquire a #1 center by selecting #1 or #2, I said the only likelihood of getting a #1 center is in the top hole. I guess someone failed reading.
Need to draft a CENTRE and hope he becomes a #1 guy.
Colborne isn't going to be a #1C. We already tried signing a #1C and failed (B. Richards). We already tried trading for a #1C and failed (M. Richards, Getzlaf?). It's clearly not working. A team is built around a #1C and in front of a #1G. You don't build a team around Phil Kessel. I have no problem drafting Gally and waiting 2-3 years for him to develop into a star. The Leafs suck anyways as it is. No goalie, no strength. So once Gally is that future of the franchise, you start acquiring OTHER pieces, like a big top 6 winger, a star goalie, and then depth. It all starts with the #1C, and our best chance of starting the process is through a draft. THIS draft.
A team can legitimately compete (stanley cup compete or playoff compete) without a #1 center...
You are so wrong. Here is a post of mine from yesterday. I modified it to fit this post. You say legitimately competing is playoffs. I disagree. Legitimately competing is being in the Stanley Cup finals. That is the goal here. He haven't waited for 4+ years of Burke for only playoffs to be the end result.
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Stanley Cup Champion and Runner-Up for each year since the lockout.
Included is head coach, #1C, #1D, and #1G
2011:
Bruins - Julien, Bergeron/Krejci, Chara, Thomas
Canucks - Vigneault, H. Sedin, Erhoff, Luongo
You are so wrong. Here is a post of mine from yesterday. I modified it to fit this post. You say legitimately competing is playoffs. I disagree. Legitimately competing is being in the Stanley Cup finals. That is the goal here. He haven't waited for 4+ years of Burke for only playoffs to be the end result.
Yeah, a #1C isn't needed.
he didn't say what we were competing for. A playoff contender or a contender for the cup? Boston won a cup without a true legitimate #1 center and people look at Nashville as a Stanley cup contender without a #1 guy either.
I would be in favour of dealing for 2 more firsts this draft and feel it will make us far better and here is why
1. We finish 5th and land Galy as many hope...perhaps he needs one more year before he comes up, but he is our elite C. One need met..no assets moved to do this
2. Deal Mccarthur for a late first is hoping, perhaps a high second
3. Deal Franson or Gunnar for a late first, i feel this is a very likely return.
4. Dealing one of Army Lambo Connolley
That helps us by saving us $ 7 m cap space for whomever we wish to spend it on
Draft Tom Wilson winger with a first, Dalton Thrower D with a second and perhaps another C with the other 2nd
Would result in the elite talent we want, and an abrute in the Kassian mode on the wing, and a super physical D prospect winning praises in the WHL..
A team can legitimately compete (stanley cup compete or playoff compete) without a #1 center in other ways barring that they change the system they play, or improve the cast of the team (both core and supporting). Bruins won a cup without a true #1 center, Krecji and Bergeron are very good centers but aren't legitimate #1 guys. Teams like St.Louis (unless people are dumb enough to think Backes is a #1 center), PHX, Bruins, Florida, Nashville, New Jersey, and Winnipeg are competing for the most part.
My argument with another poster was about that he had no problem grooming the next hot shot prospect at the expense of ignoring the present needs of the team. He can't just stand and wait for the guy to develop, he needs to make some moves that help the team now as well. I did not say that we should look to acquire a #1 center by selecting #1 or #2, I said the only likelihood of getting a #1 center is in the top hole. I guess someone failed reading.
I'm sorry, what?
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Originally Posted by 91Kadri91
How do you propose getting a #1 centre?
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Originally Posted by Beezle
select #1 or 2nd overall in the draft where the center is usually avaliable.
So now that we've established I can read, how about we look at the issue of the #1 centre.
Krejci got 23 points in 25 games in last years playoffs. Bergeron? 20 points in 23 games.
Heck, even Seguin got 7 points in 13 games, and was a big reason they won a couple of those games.
Can you name me three centre-men on the Leafs that would have that sort of impact? I sure as heck can't.
It's also funny that you mention 2003 as the anomaly and not the norm when it comes to drafting a #1 centre, and yet you proceeded to mention Boston as the reason why you don't need a number 1 centre to win the Cup. How about Pittsburgh, Chicago or Detroit? I believe they all had number 1 centres, and quality centre depth.
Last edited by DaveG: 03-09-2012 at 01:41 PM.
Reason: flaming
So now that we've established I can read, how about we look at the issue of the #1 centre.
Krejci got 23 points in 25 games in last years playoffs. Bergeron? 20 points in 23 games.
Heck, even Seguin got 7 points in 13 games, and was a big reason they won a couple of those games.
Can you name me three centre-men on the Leafs that would have that sort of impact? I sure as heck can't.
It's also funny that you mention 2003 as the anomaly and not the norm when it comes to drafting a #1 centre, and yet you proceeded to mention Boston as the reason why you don't need a number 1 centre to win the Cup. How about Pittsburgh, Chicago or Detroit? I believe they all had number 1 centres, and quality centre depth.
Grabovski has proven he can definitely do somewhere close to a PPG. To assume "no Leaf centre-men can have that sort of an impact" is a bit bias. Do you have a cool crystal ball that we can use too?
Last edited by DaveG: 03-09-2012 at 01:42 PM.
Reason: edited quote
05-06 was a great campaign for him, actually. 73 points in 79 games, 19 points in 24 playoff games. That's #1C material, not Top 10, but his 85 PIM were a nice addition too.
he didn't say what we were competing for. A playoff contender or a contender for the cup? Boston won a cup without a true legitimate #1 center and people look at Nashville as a Stanley cup contender without a #1 guy either.
I have to say what we're competing for? Are you ****ing kidding me?
Everyone is striving for one thing; a Stanley Cup. That's the ultimate goal.
I have to say what we're competing for? Are you ****ing kidding me?
Everyone is striving for one thing; a Stanley Cup. That's the ultimate goal.
The first step is getting into the playoffs. That's the one thing that's missing from this team since 2004. It's very unlikely we make the playoffs and contend for the Cup in the same year.. Very unlikely.
he didn't say what we were competing for. A playoff contender or a contender for the cup? Boston won a cup without a true legitimate #1 center and people look at Nashville as a Stanley cup contender without a #1 guy either.
Ask Boston fans about Bergeron and they will chastise you if you say Bergeron isn't a #1C. He is Datsyuk-lite. And having Krejci as a #1B makes up for what you think Bergeron lacks. If you have a 1A/1B, you don't need a 90 point guy. And that's only one of the successful teams since the lockout, and you can look at their goaltending - Something the Leafs DO NOT have - and a #1D in Chara - Something the Leafs DO NOT have - as making up for what you are saying is a lack of a #1C.
The first step is getting into the playoffs. That's the one thing that's missing from this team since 2004. It's very unlikely we make the playoffs and contend for the Cup in the same year.. Very unlikely.
the last time I checked only 2 teams legitimely end up in the Stanley cup finals to compete for the cup, so everyone else have to compete for the playoffs first and then focus on the playoffs.
Grabovski has proven he can definitely do somewhere close to a PPG. To assume "no Leaf centre-men can have that sort of an impact" is a bit bias. Do you have a cool crystal ball that we can use too?
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Originally Posted by 91Kadri91
Can you name me three centre-men on the Leafs that would have that sort of impact?
I used an example because I can't tell you how this team will play during the playoffs, nor do you. Playoffs changes a lot and teams can make runs (look at MTL a few years ago)
To assume that we won't do good because we don't have certain pieces is a bit misleading, if we make the playoffs anything can happen.
05-06 was a great campaign for him, actually. 73 points in 79 games, 19 points in 24 playoff games. That's #1C material, not Top 10, but his 85 PIM were a nice addition too.
Ask Boston fans about Bergeron and they will chastise you if you say Bergeron isn't a #1C. He is Datsyuk-lite. And having Krejci as a #1B makes up for what you think Bergeron lacks. If you have a 1A/1B, you don't need a 90 point guy. And that's only one of the successful teams since the lockout, and you can look at their goaltending - Something the Leafs DO NOT have - and a #1D in Chara - Something the Leafs DO NOT have - as making up for what you are saying is a lack of a #1C.
now you're going out of the context we're talking about. We were talking about the lack of a true #1 center, and you're talking about goaltending now. I said depending on the makeup of the rest of the core and supporting cast, goaltending, 2nd and 3rd lines could compensate for that. When I think of #1 centers, I think of guys that could create offence on their own (not in the sphere of Malkin, Stamkos etc), but more like (Spezza etc) and when I think of guys like Bergeron and Krecji, I see those guys heavily depended on their linemates for thier production and vice-versa. They're still great players in their own rights and it doesn't take away what they've accomplished last season.
