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THN Future Watch: Toronto Maple Leafs Discussion (B-)

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Old
03-09-2012, 09:02 AM
  #26
ULF_55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Hayes View Post
Brian Costello ‏ @bcostellothn

#Leafs have B- rating and 2 prospects (Joe Colborne, newcomer Carter Ashton from Tampa) among top 75 in THN's upcoming #FutureWatch


---

Haven't seen this posted yet.

It ranks "NHL upside" of prospects and 21-and-under NHLers. Ranked by a panel of 14 scouts. I've also read that each top 10 prospect list in the magazine comes directly from a member of each organization.

Although it is only one magazine's ranking, it's pretty disheartening that Kadri is no longer in the Top 75 (unless, he isn't considered eligible?). It's nice to see Colborne (18th) and Ashton (37th) are rated highly though.

Overall, I feel the Leafs have a lot of depth and good to very good prospects, but still lack that elite player at each position in the system. Which sucks.


OTHER TEAMS (Top 75 players in brackets) - Not the order in magazine, just put them in order myself based on grade


1. Oilers: A+ (Klefbom)
2. Senators: A- (Zibanejad, Lehner, Stone, Silfverberg, Noesen)
3. Panthers: A- (Huberdeau, Markstrom, Bjustad, Petrovic)
4. Ducks: A- (Justin Schultz, Rickard Rakell, Kyle Palmieri)
5. Avalance: A- (Duncan Siemens, Joey Hishon, Tyson Barrie)
6. Wild: B+ (Granlund, Brodin, Coyle, Hackett, Larsson, Bulmer)
7. Islanders: B+ (Ryan Strome, Calvin de haan, Brock Nelson)
8. Lightning: B+ (a traded Carter Ashton, Vlad Namestnikov)
9. Jets: B+ (Mark Scheifele, Patrice Cormier)
10. Hurricanes: B+ (Ryan Murphy, Zac Dalpe)
11. Capitals: B (Kuznetsov, Eakin, Galiev, Holtby)
12. Bruins: B (Dougie Hamilton, Jordan Caron, Alex Khokhlachev)
13. Rangers: B (Tim Erixon, Chris Kreider, JT Miller)
14. Coyotes: B (Brandon Gormley, Max Goncharov)
15. Sabres: B (a traded Zack Kassian, Joel Armia, Marcus Foligno)
16. Blackhawks: B (Saad, McNeill, Morin, Danault)
17. Flyers: B (None)
18. Devils: B- (Jon Merrill)
19. Blues: B- (Tarasenko, Schwartz, Rattie, Allen)
20. Toronto: B- (newcomer Carter Ashton, Joe Colborne)
21. Penguins: C+ (Joe Morrow, Simon Despres, Beau Bennett)
22. Redwings: C+ (Smith, Jarnkrok, Nyquvist, Tatar)
23. Kings: C+ (Tyler Toffoli, Derek Forbort)
24. Bluejackets: C+ (David Savard, Boone Jenner)
25. Stars: C+ (Jack Campbell, Jamie Oleksiak)
26. Predators: C+ (Ryan Ellis)
27. Canadiens: C (Nathan Beaulieu, Louis Leblanc, Jarred Tinordi)
28. Canucks: C (newcomer Zack Kassian, Nicklas Jensen)
29. Flames: C (Sven Baertschi)
30. Sharks: C- (None)

Still pretty much in the bottom third of the league (according to FutureWatch). I guess it's an improvement.

Thoughts?
The organizational ranking should include prospects not in the top 75 one would assume. Example Percy and Biggs for the Leafs.

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Old
03-09-2012, 09:12 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
It's for players 21 years and younger. Kadri is now 21. More chance for people to come here and call him a bust.
The wheres B. Schenn, RNH, Hall, Eberle? Theirs got to be more to it then age. Games played is the next logical step.

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03-09-2012, 09:15 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
The wheres B. Schenn, RNH, Hall, Eberle? Theirs got to be more to it then age. Games played is the next logical step.
So basically this ranking has it, you can't have very many games, you can't be over 21? How many more restrictions are they going to add? But yet, they don't list RNH, Hall, Eberle, but they say that Edmonton is #1? Seems a bit flawed?

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Old
03-09-2012, 09:20 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
The wheres B. Schenn, RNH, Hall, Eberle? Theirs got to be more to it then age. Games played is the next logical step.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
So basically this ranking has it, you can't have very many games, you can't be over 21? How many more restrictions are they going to add? But yet, they don't list RNH, Hall, Eberle, but they say that Edmonton is #1? Seems a bit flawed?
Without seeing the article we don't really know their criteria.

I am assuming the players noted are just the top 75 players, but ranking is based on other top prospects.

Example Sharks would have to be lower than c- if they had no prospects.

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Old
03-09-2012, 09:22 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Without seeing the article we don't really know their criteria.

I am assuming the players noted are just the top 75 players, but ranking is based on other top prospects.

Example Sharks would have to be lower than c- if they had no prospects.
RNH would be #1, no?

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Old
03-09-2012, 09:30 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aingefan View Post
With Ashton on TBay's list and Kadri/Gardiner not eligible, this ranking doesn't seem off at all. The Leafs best youth is playing roles with the big team, with varying degrees of success.


since gardiner has a full time job now with leafs. though if we miss the playoffs, we will send him down to marlies for their post season run. i expect kadri to be a full time leaf next season. burke do us all a favor and get rid of LACK.

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Old
03-09-2012, 09:45 AM
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The Flyers are ranked 17'th yet there are no prospects listed. Anyone understand how that works?

....
16. Blackhawks: B (Saad, McNeill, Morin, Danault)
17. Flyers: B (None)
18. Devils: B- (Jon Merrill)
....

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Old
03-09-2012, 09:53 AM
  #33
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Well done Burke.....are we tanking here as well?

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Old
03-09-2012, 09:54 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
RNH would be #1, no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzLeaf View Post
The Flyers are ranked 17'th yet there are no prospects listed. Anyone understand how that works?

....
16. Blackhawks: B (Saad, McNeill, Morin, Danault)
17. Flyers: B (None)
18. Devils: B- (Jon Merrill)
....
Rankings include NHL players perhaps the list is prospects (occasional call-ups?).

Quote:
It ranks "NHL upside" of prospects and 21-and-under NHLers.

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03-09-2012, 09:55 AM
  #35
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I dont think we know enough about their ranking systems to comment

Philly ranks 17th with no one listed.....we're missing something. lol

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03-09-2012, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Hayes View Post
[

Thoughts?
I have an old issue with Rostislav Klesla as the number one prospect.

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Old
03-09-2012, 09:57 AM
  #37
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I have an old issue with Rostislav Klesla as the number one prospect.
Antropov was a top 5 prospect in one THN article.

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Old
03-09-2012, 09:59 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
I dont think we know enough about their ranking systems to comment

Philly ranks 17th with no one listed.....we're missing something. lol
Like ULF's been posting, looks like they only list the top 75 but the rankings take into account all prospects in that team's system.

But I call shenanigans on the Flyers rankings. I can't see them not having a single top 75 prospect yet still have so many quality prospects they beat 13 other teams. I just don't trust their methods.

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03-09-2012, 10:02 AM
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Since the lockout, a large problem with the leafs is that we've been stocked full of 2nd/3rd line talent, with little elite 1st line talent.

The very clear problem is that our prospects are very mediocre (as evidenced by this threads rating, and everyone else in the entire world other than leafs fans of course).
When the current mediocre team grows older, they'll be replaced by our mediocre prospects, and we'll be... well... mediocre again.

Why exactly are people happy with Burke?
Our team is still clearly VERY mediocre. And it's blatantly obvious that our prospects are painfully mediocre.
What on earth is there to be excited about? Or to even be tolerant about?

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03-09-2012, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Since the lockout, a large problem with the leafs is that we've been stocked full of 2nd/3rd line talent, with little elite 1st line talent.

The very clear problem is that our prospects are very mediocre (as evidenced by this threads rating, and everyone else in the entire world other than leafs fans of course).
When the current mediocre team grows older, they'll be replaced by our mediocre prospects, and we'll be... well... mediocre again.

Why exactly are people happy with Burke?
Our team is still clearly VERY mediocre. And it's blatantly obvious that our prospects are painfully mediocre.
What on earth is there to be excited about? Or to even be tolerant about?
Can you leave this to be about prospects and not turn it into another Burke thread? Please?

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Old
03-09-2012, 10:06 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzLeaf View Post
Like ULF's been posting, looks like they only list the top 75 but the rankings take into account all prospects in that team's system.

But I call shenanigans on the Flyers rankings. I can't see them not having a single top 75 prospect yet still have so many quality prospects they beat 13 other teams. I just don't trust their methods.
If they're listing the top 75 "21 and under prospects and nhl players" then weere are RNH, Eberle, Hall, B. Schenn, etc?

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03-09-2012, 10:09 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
If they're listing the top 75 "21 and under prospects and nhl players" then weere are RNH, Eberle, Hall, B. Schenn, etc?
Yeh they can't even follow their own criteria, it's brutal.

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Old
03-09-2012, 10:10 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Can you leave this to be about prospects and not turn it into another Burke thread? Please?
I'm usually pretty good about keeping my diatribes in appropriate threads. But this thread's about our mediocre prospect rating. It's going to be largely about Burke.

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Old
03-09-2012, 10:48 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
If they're listing the top 75 "21 and under prospects and nhl players" then weere are RNH, Eberle, Hall, B. Schenn, etc?
The Top 75 are guys considered prospects.

The rankings are guys considered prospects and 21-and-under NHL players. So, RNH, Eberle, Hall, etc. wouldn't be considered for the list but factor into the ranking.

It's kind of a silly system but that's how it seems they do it.

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Old
03-09-2012, 10:57 AM
  #45
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Our overall depth is much stronger than most of those organizations.

But we'll be adding a top 10 pick this year, most likely.

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03-09-2012, 11:05 AM
  #46
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Patrice Cormier is in the top-75. Ahead of Frattin and Kadri. Hell, even D'Amigo is doing better than him in the AHL.

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Old
03-09-2012, 11:15 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Hayes View Post
That improves the outlook a lot, as Kadri and Gardiner are both still 21 (turn 22 in October and July, respectively). For all intents and purposes they are still top prospects for us.
When players play in the NHL like Gardiner, they're no longer prospects, because they're graduated prospects, and that is the entire purpose of a prospect pool is to deliver NHL talent. Prospects that don't make the NHL are considered busts.

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03-09-2012, 11:19 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
When players play in the NHL like Gardiner, they're no longer prospects, because they're graduated prospects, and that is the entire purpose of a prospect pool is to deliver NHL talent. Prospects that don't make the NHL are considered busts.
Red Wings have a lot of busts then since 21 and unders rarely see NHL time.

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03-09-2012, 11:19 AM
  #49
Busher Jackson
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It ranks "NHL upside" of prospects and 21-and-under NHLers. Ranked by a panel of 14 scouts. I've also read that each top 10 prospect list in the magazine comes directly from a member of each organization.

The flyers have none? There is something wrong with their rating system when Sean Couturier is not on the list.

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03-09-2012, 11:22 AM
  #50
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Those rankings are pretty bad guys, i wouldn't worry too much lol

they're actually pretty laughable

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