Gorges as 3rd pairing? Really? That'd be a waste...
Hey you can change those up, but if you go with a lineup like that, you have 3 solid pairings that can play vs almost anyone 5 on 5, Gorge can make up for some of Kaberle play in his own end, but a coach can simply go with a Markov-Gorges pairing late in games, if you do that, and with Gorges time of the PK, he'll end up up there with Markov and Subban in overall ice time, but simply just playing with Kaberle at EN.
When did WS reference +/- in talking about Kaberle? Wasn't anywhere in the post you quoted.
In fact, I don't think I've read anyone focusing on +/- as a measure of how bad Kaberle is defensively.
Looking only at the stat line is a very poor way of evaluating how well/effective a player is.
The biggest problem with Kaberle is that he is paid too much for what he brings to the table.
He's weak in every aspect of being an NHL dman without the puck. For a guy as weak physically as he is, it's surprising how often he's out of position, he has absolutely no grit/toughness to his game, plays soft in front of the net and along the boards, and avoids contact like it's contagious.
He's a decent skater, and a good passer, that's about the extent of his "qualities" as a player...
4.25M$ for that is far too much, that's his "biggest problem".
You don't pay that kind of money for a player who is best used as a bottom-pairing guy with additional PP time unless perhaps you're a contender and you can justify "splurging" b/c your cap is otherwise very well managed and you can afford to "waste" money to fill a specific hole.
For a cap spending team that is dead-last in the eastern conference, you move a player like that ASAP.
Not sure what league your are looking at where defensemen putting up 40-50 points are overpaid at around 4 mil/year.
That was more a poor offensive decision(with the puck) than a defensive one(coverage/positionning).
I'm sure I can find a screw ups from every defenseman in the NHL, including TWO huge gaffes by Chara the last time we played Boston.
His defensive play is awful in the coverage/positioning respect, but that clearing attempt/first pass was beyond terrible.
Chara isn't a guy that can't afford to make mistakes, every defenseman does. But when your only ability is handling the puck and you toss a soft one in the middle of the ice, as a bottom pairing guy, that's not going to go over well. This time it was Omark, imagine what it'd look like against good players.
MAB was played as a forward because we couldn't afford to have stuff like that happen on a regular basis.
Not sure what league your are looking at where defensemen putting up 40-50 points are overpaid at around 4 mil/year.
So he puts up 40-50 pts and is responsible for the same amount of goals being scored on us because of his pathetic defensive play. Great! Might as well have a rookie @ 750 000$
Not sure what league your are looking at where defensemen putting up 40-50 points are overpaid at around 4 mil/year.
Hes so bad in his own zone. Soft Soft Soft. We need to get rid of these soft players. 4 million for 40 pts and horrible defensive play. Horrible trade. And once Markov comes back Kaberle becomes redundant and gives our team nothing that we need. Sorry habs fans, but that was another horrible trade.
If the only reason you guys got Kaberle was to replace Markov due to injury, then I would suggest to keep Kaberle for next season. Firstly, you don't know how well Markov will play when he comes back. He might not be the same Markov of past considering he's coming off a major injury and the fact he's 33 (I know, I know, 33 isn't that old, but it's not young either man). And if he does somehow return to his old form, it might not happen right away. Secondly, he might re-injure himself. There's just too great a chance that you're not going to be getting an 82 game, 30 year old form of Markov for next season.
Hes so bad in his own zone. Soft Soft Soft. We need to get rid of these soft players. 4 million for 40 pts and horrible defensive play. Horrible trade. And once Markov comes back Kaberle becomes redundant and gives our team nothing that we need. Sorry habs fans, but that was another horrible trade.
How does it make it a horrible trade? Spacek had negative value at the time. Carolina couldn't even trade him at the deadline with about 1 mil cap hit left on his deal.
How does it make it a horrible trade? Spacek had negative value at the time. Carolina couldn't even trade him at the deadline with about 1 mil cap hit left on his deal.
Spacek's contract was coming off the books this offseason, Instead we added someone with also negative value, except he has 2 more years for more money than Spacek was being paid. honestly I'd take Spacek over Kaberle too. Whatever, I can't really be angry, I have to just accept that this management team will keep finding ways to add horrible contracts that nobody wants.
Spacek's contract was coming off the books this offseason, Instead we added someone with also negative value, except he has 2 more years for more money than Spacek was being paid. honestly I'd take Spacek over Kaberle too. Whatever, I can't really be angry, I have to just accept that this management team will keep finding ways to add horrible contracts that nobody wants.
If Kaberle's contract is horrible then so is 75% of NHLers.
So he puts up 40-50 pts and is responsible for the same amount of goals being scored on us because of his pathetic defensive play. Great! Might as well have a rookie @ 750 000$
We'll not exactly true, if you look at his +/-, he is -8, but he has 12 power play points that don't count for that stat, and I don't know where to find the stat on how many pp goals were scored with him being on the ice for without him getting a point, but at the very minimal, when Kaberle is on the ice, we score more goals than give up.
We'll not exactly true, if you look at his +/-, he is -8, but he has 12 power play points that don't count for that stat, and I don't know where to find the stat on how many pp goals were scored with him being on the ice for without him getting a point, but at the very minimal, when Kaberle is on the ice, we score more goals than give up.
Keep in mind he's getting sheltered minutes at ES. That -8 is bad to say to the least.
If Kaberle's contract is horrible then so is 75% of NHLers.
Love random made up stats. If that helps your argument then great. Reality is Kaberle is horrendous in his own zone. And when Markov comes back he will be utterly redundant. Please who are going to be our big strong defenseman that are going to clear the crease? We are in this mess of a season in large part due to our defense, do you not see that? A soft defense that gives up way to many high percentage plays. But yea, lets keep our problems on the team and hope to magically be better next season. Getting rid of Campoli alone is not going to solve this mess.
Keep in mind he's getting sheltered minutes at ES. That -8 is bad to say to the least.
I don't think they are sheltered minutes,
before recently playing with Campoli, he has been many playing with Emelin in a top 4 role, and this was when Emelin was adjusting to playing RD after starting the season playing LD. For the most part we had
before recently playing with Campoli, he has been many playing with Emelin in a top 4 role, and this was when Emelin was adjusting to playing RD after starting the season playing LD. For the most part we had
Gorges-Subban
Kaberle-Emelin
Gill-Diaz
There's no other defenseman with a lower QoC indicator except Weber who was played a forward quite a bit.
So, yeah, those are sheltered minutes.
He also has one of the worst Off. zone start to Off. zone finish on the team (second to Weber), Campoli's is miles ahead. There's really no defending his ES play, no matter how hard you can try.
There's no other defenseman with a lower QoC indicator except Weber who was played a forward quite a bit.
So, yeah, those are sheltered minutes.
He also has one of the worst Off. zone start to Off. zone finish on the team (second to Weber), Campoli's is miles ahead. There's really no defending his ES play, no matter how hard you can try.
I guess I was wrong, but I could have sworn that before the Gill trade, MTL was just rolling with Gorges, Subban Emelin,Kaberle as a top 4, and Gill Daiz and one of Weber and Campoli were sharing the bottom 3 spots playing 11F and 7D.
So its pretty obvious Gauthier added Kaberle to try and replace Markov while he was nursing his injury.. Whether that was a good idea or worked is not the scope of this topic. Now, Kaberle is obviously pretty one dimensional in that hes only good offensively, particularly the PP. When Markov comes back, what will become of Kaberle? You guys will have 3 PP gifted dmen in Markov Subban and Kaberle. How would you guys like for those three to be used? How will the PP be run?
I know some will say, trade away Kaberle come the offseason and what not.. But lets be realistic, he has a big cap hit and may not be movable. Lets tackle this issue thinking Kaberle will be here for a few years along with Markov and Subban.
I imagine Kaberle will be here next year, at least until next trade deadline. Then trade him for more draft picks this gives the Tinordis, Ellis, Beaulieaus 2/3 of a season in AHL to mature. Good to have depth on D and Habs have tons of caproom, so we can use him.
This guy is one of the worst players I have ever seen in his own zone. If you don't think so, you aren't really conscious of what a d-man does back there. He helped the Bruins by getting them to realise they didn't need him and barely played him in the playoffs.
His defensive decisions are like a 14 year old's, his ideas of when to pursue, to cover, to drop behind his net, etc. lead to a lot of sustained pressure against us, if not scoring chances and goals. I'd even argue that Campoli - horrendous - is better at positioning and timing than Kaberle. It is astonishing that he cannot read plays whatsoever. And he is slow & weak in his end, but not so with the puck - clear attitude problem, zero desire to muck. I don't think a tough defensive d-man can cover for him unless it is Pronger.
He is alright with the puck, decent vision, moves it quick on the pp which, for a d-man on the pp without a shot is all you can ask. His decisions on pinching and his board 'battles' lead to a lot of odd-man rushes or fwds covering him.
He gets a lot of quality ice time and as noted very favourable match-ups. With hope he can put up a few more points and we can sell high, keeping in mind his contract pegs us back a notch. Cannot move forward with him on the roster unless we are rid of Campoli (given), Weber (probable) and Diaz because of his bad d. I'd do everything to keep Diaz over him.
To the posters who keep bringing up Kaberle's points...yes it is relevant. But, and I don't know if he is on that level of defensive incompetence yet, a guy like MAB also puts up 30-40pts and still finds it difficult to stay consistently in the NHL, let alone garner a big contract because his defensive play is so bad.
Kaberle's contract was predicated on him bouncing back from his post-Toronto play - the pure offensive points don't tell the whole picture here. He was never a rock defensively but he was able to play solid minutes somewhat consistently for the Leafs. He has not played well at all, even strength, since leaving Toronto.
All this considered, he is not so horrible that he can't play at all, his cap is a problem, but if Gomez is going away then less so. But there is a limit to the number of defensively weak and offensively skilled blueliners the team should be playing.
This guy is one of the worst players I have ever seen in his own zone. If you don't think so, you aren't really conscious of what a d-man does back there. He helped the Bruins by getting them to realise they didn't need him and barely played him in the playoffs.
His defensive decisions are like a 14 year old's, his ideas of when to pursue, to cover, to drop behind his net, etc. lead to a lot of sustained pressure against us, if not scoring chances and goals. I'd even argue that Campoli - horrendous - is better at positioning and timing than Kaberle. It is astonishing that he cannot read plays whatsoever. And he is slow & weak in his end, but not so with the puck - clear attitude problem, zero desire to muck. I don't think a tough defensive d-man can cover for him unless it is Pronger.
He is alright with the puck, decent vision, moves it quick on the pp which, for a d-man on the pp without a shot is all you can ask. His decisions on pinching and his board 'battles' lead to a lot of odd-man rushes or fwds covering him.
He gets a lot of quality ice time and as noted very favourable match-ups. With hope he can put up a few more points and we can sell high, keeping in mind his contract pegs us back a notch. Cannot move forward with him on the roster unless we are rid of Campoli (given), Weber (probable) and Diaz because of his bad d. I'd do everything to keep Diaz over him.
This. He used to compensate his poor defensive IQ by being a great skater, but now he's just slow and useless.
