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Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXVI (Winning...MEH)

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Old
10-28-2016, 10:47 PM
  #1
g00n
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Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXVI (Winning...MEH)

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=2118925

Barely the strength to post....

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10-28-2016, 10:51 PM
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twabby
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From the last thread:

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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Ultimately pro sports is about one thing. WINNING

It's why phrases like "he played good enough to win" are meaningless to me. If you didn't win, you didn't play good enough to win, or you didn't do enough.
Winning now means nothing, aside from winning enough games to qualify for the playoffs. The Capitals have won plenty in the regular season and ultimately it has been meaningless.

They need to work on things that have been shown to work in the postseason: a solid possession game, a smart and efficient transition game, and fostering creativity in the offensive zone. If it costs them a few games in the regular season so be it.

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10-28-2016, 10:59 PM
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CapitalsCupFantasy
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success breeds success. Winning now DOES matter. Being a Professional matters. You're brushing off the importance of a strong mental attitude and work ethic by saying winning doesn't matter, it's loser-speak. This is IMO part of the fundamental problem with the team psyche. They only want to 'get up' when the games 'matter' and reality to date says they can't just flip the switch and expect to succeed. They should play like they all matter and then there's no need to flip the switch. Any strategy and line combo can be tried and still allow them put forth a strong effort each night. This coasting attitude shows a lack of pride and professionalism and it's been a core issue for a long time.

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Old
10-28-2016, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twabby View Post
From the last thread:



Winning now means nothing, aside from winning enough games to qualify for the playoffs. The Capitals have won plenty in the regular season and ultimately it has been meaningless.

They need to work on things that have been shown to work in the postseason: a solid possession game, a smart and efficient transition game, and fostering creativity in the offensive zone. If it costs them a few games in the regular season so be it.
Sounds like what they did in Trotz's first year. Then they still choked in the playoffs after going up on the Rangers 3-1 because they're headcases.

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10-28-2016, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by twabby View Post
From the last thread:



Winning now means nothing, aside from winning enough games to qualify for the playoffs. The Capitals have won plenty in the regular season and ultimately it has been meaningless.

They need to work on things that have been shown to work in the postseason: a solid possession game, a smart and efficient transition game, and fostering creativity in the offensive zone. If it costs them a few games in the regular season so be it.
I think they are mainly trying to fix broken players. Alzner is coming off an injury. Kuzy is lost. Burt has lost his scoring touch. Sanford is a complete pro rookie. Orlov is trying to become a top 4 defenseman, Wilson is trying to build his role by adding offense. Connolly is trying to save his career.

Those are the things that are going on. Trotz tried to fix Kuzy by putting him with Ovechkin. That failed. He tried to fix Burt by playing him with Backstrom and then Kuzy. Alzner seems to be fine but they are taking it easy on his minutes

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Old
10-29-2016, 12:06 AM
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Re: Defense pairings (from last thread)


The best pairing we've seen Orlov on during his time in Washington was with Mike Green. Hardly a "stay at home" partner for Orlov. The worst pairing we've seen Orlov on during his time in Washington was with Brooks Opik. The epitome of a "stay at home" partner for Orlov.

Defense pairing chemistry isn't just shoving a "stay at home" guy with a "puck mover." There's a lot more to it than that, and often cases it can come down to specific individuals knowing how to read off of each others' game. Two more aggressive players can still play aggressively if they know how the other is going to react to a situation.

Judging offensive performance of a defenseman off solely off of points during a 6 game span is ridiculous. Especially considering roughly 1/3 of Carlson's points typically come on the powerplay, and the powerplay has been sputtering so far this year. Carlson had two different streaks of 0 total points in 6 games last year. In fact, at this date last year he was one game into a streak where he would have just one even strength point over 10 games.


Give Orlov a chance in the top four, either continuing with Carlson or with Niskanen. Burying him on the third pairing because you percieve Carlson to not be getting enough points is ridiculous.

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10-29-2016, 01:57 AM
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Good Lord

You are all waaaay to close to the fire. Everyone is getting singed. Not a good look people, 6 games in to a long long winding season.

Let's all take a few giant steps back, and maybe feel the warmth of the new season? All summer long, everyone griped about sitting on status quo (lines), not pushing the pace (in practice), and getting too complacent as they won too often.

Now the team losses TWO freaking games, shuffles the crap out of the lineup, and practices stuff WE ALL ACTUALLY WANTED them too, and the season is over? Another sure fire crap dump in the playoffs is coming?

LOL!!!

Get A Hold Of Yourselves. For yours loved one sakes.

Or don't..... and watch your skin start to boil from the heat. I don't much care.

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10-29-2016, 02:09 AM
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Great all we need to do is find is a $6 mil a year defender who skates lights out but struggles in his own end too so Orlov can look decent.

In all seriousness Mike Green shouldered a lot of responsibility on that pair and they played against lesser opposition overall I would guess as a 3rd pair. Smoke and mirrors.

Try it all now, the cream will rise to the top come playoff time, just like last year I'm afraid.

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10-29-2016, 02:41 AM
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Niskanen would be a good fit with Orlov. Yes, he would have to take more defensive responibilities, but having 2 defensemen who are very good puck movers on the ice at the same time can be a recipe of a success too. Any way, if Niskanen-Orlov gives us a truly reliable 2nd pairing that can play a lot of minutes, I think we could live with not getting the maximal potential offensive output from Matthew.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZ 4 KooZ
He's obviously still in his prime. He's 24 years old, he's just in a major slump. It's like when Selanne had 32 pts in 78 games in 2004 and after the lockout he scored 90 pts in 80 games.
Selanne was injury plagued and took an entire year off, Kuzya has some other problems.


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Old
10-29-2016, 06:06 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
success breeds success. Winning now DOES matter. Being a Professional matters. You're brushing off the importance of a strong mental attitude and work ethic by saying winning doesn't matter, it's loser-speak. This is IMO part of the fundamental problem with the team psyche. They only want to 'get up' when the games 'matter' and reality to date says they can't just flip the switch and expect to succeed. They should play like they all matter and then there's no need to flip the switch. Any strategy and line combo can be tried and still allow them put forth a strong effort each night. This coasting attitude shows a lack of pride and professionalism and it's been a core issue for a long time.
I feel like that has been a problem from day one with the "Young Guns". In the beginning we wrote it off as needing playoff experience. I think they just never got the importance of a strong mental attitude and work ethic. Even some of the games with Pitt last season. They should of come out strong with Letang out. And they **** the bed just like they always do in big games. Then they will dominate for the last 10-15min of the 3rd and its to little to late again.


Last edited by g00n: 10-29-2016 at 09:06 AM. Reason: filter
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Old
10-29-2016, 06:23 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
success breeds success. Winning now DOES matter. Being a Professional matters. You're brushing off the importance of a strong mental attitude and work ethic by saying winning doesn't matter, it's loser-speak. This is IMO part of the fundamental problem with the team psyche. They only want to 'get up' when the games 'matter' and reality to date says they can't just flip the switch and expect to succeed. They should play like they all matter and then there's no need to flip the switch. Any strategy and line combo can be tried and still allow them put forth a strong effort each night. This coasting attitude shows a lack of pride and professionalism and it's been a core issue for a long time.
This exactly, and it has been issue for years.

Good teams keep improving as the season moves along, so that they are at the top of their game when the Playoffs begin. They don't coast through the latter stretches of the regular season just waiting that the real games begin. That's a recipe for disaster in the salary cap era.

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10-29-2016, 07:30 AM
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HecticGlow
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Originally Posted by Acallabeth View Post
Niskanen would be a good fit with Orlov. Yes, he would have to take more defensive responibilities, but having 2 defensemen who are very good puck movers on the ice at the same time can be a recipe of a success too. Any way, if Niskanen-Orlov gives us a truly reliable 2nd pairing that can play a lot of minutes, I think we could live with not getting the maximal potential offensive output from Matthew.
Bigger issue as I see it is if Orlov plays with Carlson, Alzner-Niskanen is still your primary shutdown pair. Point production was specifically cited by GMBM as the reason they like Orlov and see top-4 potential/value in him - he isn't capable of being a shutdown D, nor do they want him to be in that role. But if you pair him with Niskanen, you make Alzner-Carlson your shutdown pair, and not giving Carlson the toughest minutes is actually an advantage to spreading out your offensive talent and maximising his point production.

We can live with occasional pizzas if Orlov-Carlson is banking big point totals between them, but so far they're not. They have three points in six games between them (same as Orpik and Schmidt), and Orlov is the only D to have a -1 plus/minus. I'm not saying the pair won't improve, but if it's still lousy by GP10 or so they need a shake up.

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10-29-2016, 07:57 AM
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Give Orlov a chance in the top four, either continuing with Carlson or with Niskanen. Burying him on the third pairing because you percieve Carlson to not be getting enough points is ridiculous.
He is getting the chance. I don't think I am saying he needs to come off that pair. I have in fact said that we need to give them 20 games to get things worked out.

What I am saying is that Carlson appears to be miscast as the stay at home for Orlov.
I said previous to the season starting that if Carlson's offensive production was to suffer a significant drop off in favor of letting Orlov play his game, that it could not be sustained.

Carlson is a primary point producer. Orlov was the primary secondary scoring producer on defense last season with all those even strength points from the 3rd pair. Its counter productive for Orlov for both of them to suffer, Orlov thru growing pains of trying to step up in assignment and Carlson thru watching his back.

Carlson is also not as good as either Alzner or Orpik in that role. Its not his game and watching him play, its clear. I would suggest that the best Orlov has been was playing 3rd pair with Schmidt.

Meanwhile under the surface, Orpik, first in plus minus, first in blocks, second in hits. He looks really solid. Frankly I would like to go back to Orlov and Orpik. I realize that the Caps are also trying to get growth from Schmidt. His speed game has come to the front which we wouldn't see if he was playing with Orlov.

Bottom line is after 20 games Carlson is struggling with his roles a primary defender on that pair and his offense is also suffering, that pair needs a change

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10-29-2016, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by HecticGlow View Post
Bigger issue as I see it is if Orlov plays with Carlson, Alzner-Niskanen is still your primary shutdown pair. Point production was specifically cited by GMBM as the reason they like Orlov and see top-4 potential/value in him - he isn't capable of being a shutdown D, nor do they want him to be in that role. But if you pair him with Niskanen, you make Alzner-Carlson your shutdown pair, and not giving Carlson the toughest minutes is actually an advantage to spreading out your offensive talent and maximising his point production.

We can live with occasional pizzas if Orlov-Carlson is banking big point totals between them, but so far they're not. They have three points in six games between them (same as Orpik and Schmidt), and Orlov is the only D to have a -1 plus/minus. I'm not saying the pair won't improve, but if it's still lousy by GP10 or so they need a shake up.
I could be wrong, but isn't Niskanen's +1 rather than Alzner's +3 a result of Niskanen being caught out on the ice for 2 goals against with Orlov?

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10-29-2016, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Hivemind View Post
Give Orlov a chance in the top four, either continuing with Carlson or with Niskanen. Burying him on the third pairing because you percieve Carlson to not be getting enough points is ridiculous.
Orlov isn't getting enough points either so it's not so ridiculous nor unlikely when that's his primarily value 5-on-5. If Orlov, Carlson and the offense generally isn't producing and the staff's answer is to switch players around then it probably won't be long until it happens. A bigger role is great but not when a player's strengths become neutralized in the process. Orlov has wanted a bigger role but he also needs to show he can handle it. He'll get more games to show what he's got but the longer they struggle to score the more likely that change will be made. In the short-term it may not be a bad idea to have him produce on the third pair, gain confidence and then maybe see if he can handle more minutes (rather than assume he can make the jump all at once).

It always comes back to hockey sense and consistency for this team. Poor habits, bad reads and a lack of crispness are killers.

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10-29-2016, 11:00 AM
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I have no expectations for this team, and really not a lot of interest. I said a few years ago that I loathed Alzner's response when they lost to the Rangers in G7 and he moped about not getting the breaks and being unlucky and it's more of the same now. They're absolutely more talented than almost every other team in the league but they just seem like they're waiting for something to go wrong so they can make excuses about why it didn't work out for them.

I don't envy BMac. He's going to have some tough, tough decisions this summer.

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10-29-2016, 11:09 AM
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With the expansion draft looming where we we can only protect 3 defenders I would be shopping Orlov for top 9 winger that doesn't need to be protected. Sandford is to raw for a cup winning team. He would be better served in Hershey.

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10-29-2016, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by AlexBrovechkin8 View Post
I have no expectations for this team, and really not a lot of interest. I said a few years ago that I loathed Alzner's response when they lost to the Rangers in G7 and he moped about not getting the breaks and being unlucky and it's more of the same now. They're absolutely more talented than almost every other team in the league but they just seem like they're waiting for something to go wrong so they can make excuses about why it didn't work out for them.

I don't envy BMac. He's going to have some tough, tough decisions this summer.
From Trotz on down and one poster here after another, they claim that the team history has no effect on the current team. Everytime they fail, the weight on them gets a little heavier. Even a guy like Jason Williams has to look at this and say, "Ok, yea. They are the Capitals afterall"

Last season they shrugged off blowing the 3 games to 1 lead. This season, its going to be more difficult.

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10-29-2016, 11:54 AM
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From Trotz on down and one poster here after another, they claim that the team history has no effect on the current team. Everytime they fail, the weight on them gets a little heavier. Even a guy like Jason Williams has to look at this and say, "Ok, yea. They are the Capitals afterall"

Last season they shrugged off blowing the 3 games to 1 lead. This season, its going to be more difficult.
Yeah, it's definitely a thing. The lack of postseason progress given their regular season prowess is pretty staggering. I know the fans lack interest in the regular season now... wouldn't be surprised if the players want to fast forward to the playoffs as well.

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10-29-2016, 01:26 PM
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Wanting to fast forward assumes they're fully prepared for that moment and, frankly, they never really have been. It's one thing to be impatient and another to be unmotivated. The Ovechkin Era post-Boudreau has mostly been filled with fairly unmotivated teams when it really comes down to it. That's the problem with never supplying the prime core with an adequate defense. You can never assume with time that your window will be just as wide open. Before you know it it's closed or at least in the process of closing. It's on them to work positively in the opposite direction.

They need to take a step back, which should have happened in the off-season despite how close the PIT series was on the surface, and taken a more applied direction in how they'll concretely make strides. The underlying numbers are good, despite the lack of goals and special teams issues, but they still come across as way too soft and sloppy. It's early but the case for an off-season epiphany appears not to be the case.

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10-29-2016, 04:48 PM
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With the expansion draft looming where we we can only protect 3 defenders I would be shopping Orlov for top 9 winger that doesn't need to be protected. Sandford is to raw for a cup winning team. He would be better served in Hershey.
Then again, the Penguins won the Cup with a bunch of nobodies last year. Who the hell are Conor Sheary, Tom Kuhnhackl, Bryan Rust and Scott Wilson?

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Wanting to fast forward assumes they're fully prepared for that moment and, frankly, they never really have been. It's one thing to be impatient and another to be unmotivated. The Ovechkin Era post-Boudreau has mostly been filled with fairly unmotivated teams when it really comes down to it.
What we need is a breakout season. Make a run to the semi-finals or finals this year, by getting very close to the Cup I guarantee they will be motivated to keep on improving to win it all.

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10-29-2016, 08:34 PM
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The Pens winning that way doesn't mean that it will work for anyone else or even the Pens this season. Had Kuzy produced like Kuzy in the playoffs the Caps beat those nobodies and then what?

The nobodies were not the reason that Kuzy froze up.

Food for thought

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10-30-2016, 12:00 PM
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The Pens winning that way doesn't mean that it will work for anyone else or even the Pens this season. Had Kuzy produced like Kuzy in the playoffs the Caps beat those nobodies and then what?

The nobodies were not the reason that Kuzy froze up.

Food for thought
That's not my point. I'm arguing that just because Sanford is a nobody doesn't mean that he can't be a valuable piece in our top 9. The Pens nobodies made a name for themselves last year.

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10-30-2016, 12:12 PM
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That's not my point. I'm arguing that just because Sanford is a nobody doesn't mean that he can't be a valuable piece in our top 9. The Pens nobodies made a name for themselves last year.
The Pens nobodies didn't wait for something to motivate them...

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10-30-2016, 12:18 PM
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The Pens nobodies didn't wait for something to motivate them...
Sanford has shown his motivation many times already. If he didn't, he'd be playing for the Bears right now.

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