HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Criticism of Lindy Ruff here...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-09-2012, 02:00 PM
  #26
Play4Miracles*
1 nation under Oil
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 5,241
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
Why are you even blathering on about the trap? It was a 1-1 tie in the 3rd period. Of COURSE they weren't trapping then.
OMG other recent games maybe? Did I really need to piece that together for you?

Play4Miracles* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2012, 02:01 PM
  #27
Play4Miracles*
1 nation under Oil
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 5,241
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffaloed View Post
Ruff made the right strategic decision. He got the points where he could. Putting Miller between the pipes in Boston would be like waving red meat in front of a hungry dog. The Bruins would have been crashing the crease at every opportunity. They would have created opportunities to do so. If Miller goes down, the Sabres are done. Enroth held down the fort long enough to give his team a chance and they let him down.
There's an angle I hadn't considered. Protecting Miller. That's not at all illogical.

Play4Miracles* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2012, 02:17 PM
  #28
ZZamboni
Puttin' on the Foil
 
ZZamboni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 11,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post
There's an angle I hadn't considered. Protecting Miller. That's not at all illogical.
Did you really need that pieced together for you?

ZZamboni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2012, 02:31 PM
  #29
Play4Miracles*
1 nation under Oil
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 5,241
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
Did you really need that pieced together for you?
Yeah, my first instinct is not to think that my team is a bunch of wussies. But I guess Ruff thinks that about them to, so it's okay. Better to error on the side of cowardice I suppose?

Play4Miracles* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2012, 02:51 PM
  #30
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 7,412
vCash: 500
Sometimes I think when people post about hockey, they think they're also playing a competitive sport, instead of having a conversation. I also post on a message board for a hard rock band, and it's hilarious how much more laid back they are.

haseoke39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2012, 04:03 PM
  #31
ZZamboni
Puttin' on the Foil
 
ZZamboni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 11,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Sometimes I think when people post about hockey, they think they're also playing a competitive sport, instead of having a conversation. I also post on a message board for a hard rock band, and it's hilarious how much more laid back they are.
Well... To be fair, it is tough to argue over choruses, bridges, breaks, lyrics, and guitar solos.

ZZamboni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2012, 05:10 PM
  #32
fing0rz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 2,169
vCash: 500
"You disagree with me, therefore your argument is illogical and I am right."


Jesus, can I use this one on my gf? pretty sure I would get slapped...

fing0rz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2012, 05:38 PM
  #33
Play4Miracles*
1 nation under Oil
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 5,241
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fing0rz View Post
"You disagree with me, therefore your argument is illogical and I am right."


Jesus, can I use this one on my gf? pretty sure I would get slapped...

sounds like a win/win, unless u dont like it ruff...


whammy

Play4Miracles* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2012, 12:59 PM
  #34
TakeThatTootoo
Gare's "Partner"
 
TakeThatTootoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 3,845
vCash: 500
Instead of goalie criticism, there should be some sort of power play Lindy criticism. It's pathetic.

Elaborating:
Sticking Vanek in front and have him just stand there waiting for a shot on goal is a terrible PP strategy. The pentagon formation is horrible at best, the corners are wide open and all that needs to be done is the defense beats the offense there. Which is easily done with Boyes and Roy on the half wall, just give them a gentle nudge and they'll give it up. It turns out to be a stand and pass PP and it drives me nuts.

TakeThatTootoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2012, 01:53 PM
  #35
ShaPow
Registered User
 
ShaPow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post
Yeah, my first instinct is not to think that my team is a bunch of wussies. But I guess Ruff thinks that about them to, so it's okay. Better to error on the side of cowardice I suppose?
For Ruff to decide to start Enroth over Miller painted a picture of cowardice. Whether that picture is accurate or not, it's there. On the surface, it looks like either Miller didn't want to play, or Ruff was concerned about his starting goaltendering getting ran again, derailing the rest of the season. It's a reactionary decision. A decision made from a place of weakness. We know that Miller would have played had he received the nod.

Enroth played very well, and the goaltending performance itself wasn't the difference. But really, Enroth should have played against Carolina, and Miller should have played against the superior team in Boston to give the Sabres a chance to snag an extra point or 2. It looked like Ruff wanted to hide Miller on the bench and keep him safe. Huge psychological advantage for the Bruins, and the reverse effect for the Sabres. That decision also looks like Ruff just planned on losing that game anyways, so get Miller some rest. That's a perceived, and dare I say an accurate, loser mentality.

It's another example of that Lucic cheapshot setting the tone for the rest Sabres season. Blame the Sabres players, blame the coach, or blame both of them for it, like I do, 'it' will be there for as long as a lot of these players remain, and especially, for as long as the same head coach is here.

ShaPow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2012, 01:54 PM
  #36
ShaPow
Registered User
 
ShaPow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProngersEyeball View Post
Instead of goalie criticism, there should be some sort of power play Lindy criticism. It's pathetic.

Elaborating:
Sticking Vanek in front and have him just stand there waiting for a shot on goal is a terrible PP strategy. The pentagon formation is horrible at best, the corners are wide open and all that needs to be done is the defense beats the offense there. Which is easily done with Boyes and Roy on the half wall, just give them a gentle nudge and they'll give it up. It turns out to be a stand and pass PP and it drives me nuts.
Roy and Boyes up front for the bulk of every powerplay. Jack Adams, here we come.

ShaPow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2012, 02:22 PM
  #37
struckbyaparkedcar
Zemgus Da Gawd
 
struckbyaparkedcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Country: Cote DIvoire
Posts: 11,226
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProngersEyeball View Post
Instead of goalie criticism, there should be some sort of power play Lindy criticism. It's pathetic.

Elaborating:
Sticking Vanek in front and have him just stand there waiting for a shot on goal is a terrible PP strategy. The pentagon formation is horrible at best, the corners are wide open and all that needs to be done is the defense beats the offense there. Which is easily done with Boyes and Roy on the half wall, just give them a gentle nudge and they'll give it up. It turns out to be a stand and pass PP and it drives me nuts.
Yup. Vanek's development into a distributor on the power play last season was a key reason for both personal and team improvement last season. He led the team in PP goals, assists and points, but now that Roy's healthy, it's back to strictly garbage duty for TV

struckbyaparkedcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2012, 02:38 PM
  #38
start winnin
NO MORE TANK BOYS
 
start winnin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 9,073
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Yup. Vanek's development into a distributor on the power play last season was a key reason for both personal and team improvement last season. He led the team in PP goals, assists and points, but now that Roy's healthy, it's back to strictly garbage duty for TV
Agreed, I don't understand why we limit arguably our most creative offensive forward by sticking him in front of the net. Put Boyes there and let Vanek run around the perimeter like Pominville and Roy.

I think Ruff is a good coach, but his time has run out, we need a fresh voice in the room. Please Pegula, open your eyes...

start winnin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2012, 04:35 PM
  #39
Royisgone
Registered User
 
Royisgone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,018
vCash: 500
I always laugh at how these Ruff debates quickly degenerate into black and white analyses regarding whether he is a good coach or a bad coach. It's not about that at this point! Whether he is good or bad is now irrelevant in my opinion. It's about his time here being over, his voice not being heard, the players needing a shake-up, and the message it would send to the players that "you are not as safe as you thought you were; if we can fire Ruff, we can dump you too."

Does anyone here closely follow baseball? Terry Francona is arguably the best manager in Red Sox history and he brought years of competitiveness and two world championships to Boston. But things started going south, things got kind of squirrely, he was perceived as losing control of the clubhouse, free agent signings were not working out, and the team blew a huge lead to miss the playoffs. It became apparent his day was done in Boston. And he was promptly shown the door.

If we did not hit rock bottom at some point this year, I would like to know what rock bottom looks like. It's time to move Darcy and Lindy along, just as Boston moved Francona along, for largely the same types of reasons.

But that is how a championship winning first class organization does business. I sometimes forget we are talking about the Buffalo Sabres.

Royisgone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2012, 04:44 PM
  #40
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 36,064
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post
...wow...okay no logic to be found here for the most part.

Anybody want to chime in about the lack of a trap with this team or is everything perfect there to, and above criticism?
Not agreeing with you equals no logic?

joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2012, 04:54 PM
  #41
Play4Miracles*
1 nation under Oil
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 5,241
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Not agreeing with you equals no logic?
Disagreeing with logic, without presenting logic of your on, is illogical.

The first couple posts actually border on retardation.

I welcome intelligent conversation and debate. And judging by that poll, there are more logical people in Buffalo than illogical.

Play4Miracles* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2012, 05:01 PM
  #42
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 36,064
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post
Disagreeing with logic, without presenting logic of your on, is illogical.

The first couple posts actually border on retardation.

I welcome intelligent conversation and debate. And judging by that poll, there are more logical people in Buffalo than illogical.
Not really.

You want posters to agree with your frustration over the goalie decision and nothing more.

joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2012, 05:17 PM
  #43
SackTastic
Embrace The Suck
 
SackTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 5,228
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roymustgo View Post
I always laugh at how these Ruff debates quickly degenerate into black and white analyses regarding whether he is a good coach or a bad coach. It's not about that at this point! Whether he is good or bad is now irrelevant in my opinion. It's about his time here being over, his voice not being heard, the players needing a shake-up, and the message it would send to the players that "you are not as safe as you thought you were; if we can fire Ruff, we can dump you too."

Does anyone here closely follow baseball? Terry Francona is arguably the best manager in Red Sox history and he brought years of competitiveness and two world championships to Boston. But things started going south, things got kind of squirrely, he was perceived as losing control of the clubhouse, free agent signings were not working out, and the team blew a huge lead to miss the playoffs. It became apparent his day was done in Boston. And he was promptly shown the door.

If we did not hit rock bottom at some point this year, I would like to know what rock bottom looks like. It's time to move Darcy and Lindy along, just as Boston moved Francona along, for largely the same types of reasons.

But that is how a championship winning first class organization does business. I sometimes forget we are talking about the Buffalo Sabres.
I mean, cool story and all, but I'm sure 99% of players don't really care about this. They signed a contract that guarantees their pay no matter where they're playing, or even if they're not playing. They all know the coach is easier to replace than they are.

And your Red Sox analogy is terrible. Francona left because he was a scapegoat for their epic collapse. Not because he lost the room. Even then, they wanted to keep him, and Francona wanted out.

Carry on.

SackTastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2012, 05:17 PM
  #44
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 36,064
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Yup. Vanek's development into a distributor on the power play last season was a key reason for both personal and team improvement last season. He led the team in PP goals, assists and points, but now that Roy's healthy, it's back to strictly garbage duty for TV
Last year Vanek's PP production pace DID NOT change after Roy left the lineup.

with Roy in the lineup ----> 35gms 6g 6a 12pts (.34ppg on PP)

without Roy in the lineup -> 45gms 5g 11a 16pts (.36ppg on PP)

What changed for Vanek was his ES production.


Btw that "garbage duty" as you call it is what actually made Vanek matter to this team. He was one of the top PP goal scorers two years in and row (07-08 and 08-09). One of those years he led the NHL with 20 PP goals and it was the last time he scored 40.

joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2012, 05:22 PM
  #45
SackTastic
Embrace The Suck
 
SackTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 5,228
vCash: 500
Dave Andreychuk had a pretty good career doing 'garbage duty'. 95% of his goals were scored within 5' of the paint.

SackTastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2012, 05:29 PM
  #46
Royisgone
Registered User
 
Royisgone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
I mean, cool story and all, but I'm sure 99% of players don't really care about this. They signed a contract that guarantees their pay no matter where they're playing, or even if they're not playing. They all know the coach is easier to replace than they are.

And your Red Sox analogy is terrible. Francona left because he was a scapegoat for their epic collapse. Not because he lost the room. Even then, they wanted to keep him, and Francona wanted out.

Carry on.
Francona was not merely a scapegoat. Are you not tuned into the beer drinking in the bullpen and that whole saga? The bad blood with some of the new free agents? But even if he was a scapegoat, should not Ruff also be fired, merely as a scapegoat? There are plenty of better reasons to do it, but scapegoat works for me.

Any organization must have high standards and accountability when expectations/standards are not met.

And regarding guaranteed contracts, etc., players care more about staying put than you think, especially if they are situated in an organization that believes in them when others may not, and they have been in 1 place for years.

Look, it's this simple: Ruff is part of a culture that promotes comfort and safety and assures everyone involved that mediocrity will be tolerated and in some cases rewarded. That goes from Darcy to Lindy to the players. How many other GMs in this league give Stafford his new contract based on Stafford's entire career, to date? It's like you read somewhere 12 years ago that Lindy Ruff is respected as a good coach, so you are going to hold onto that forever!

Whatever.

Royisgone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2012, 05:38 PM
  #47
SackTastic
Embrace The Suck
 
SackTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 5,228
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roymustgo View Post
Francona was not merely a scapegoat. Are you not tuned into the beer drinking in the bullpen and that whole saga? The bad blood with some of the new free agents? But even if he was a scapegoat, should not Ruff also be fired, merely as a scapegoat? There are plenty of better reasons to do it, but scapegoat works for me.

Any organization must have high standards and accountability when expectations/standards are not met.

And regarding guaranteed contracts, etc., players care more about staying put than you think, especially if they are situated in an organization that believes in them when others may not, and they have been in 1 place for years.

Look, it's this simple: Ruff is part of a culture that promotes comfort and safety and assures everyone involved that mediocrity will be tolerated and in some cases rewarded. That goes from Darcy to Lindy to the players. How many other GMs in this league give Stafford his new contract based on Stafford's entire career, to date? It's like you read somewhere 12 years ago that Lindy Ruff is respected as a good coach, so you are going to hold onto that forever!

Whatever.
I'm a die hard Sox fan. I'm aware of the beer drinking that occurred in that clubhouse, which also occurs in the majority of other MLB clubhouses. The beer thing was overblown, and not the reason why they fell apart.

I'm against change for the sake of change. If they think a coaching change is what they need to do, then they should do it. I'm a firm believer that teams shouldn't change coaches unless there's a valid reason. "He's been here too long" is not one.

SackTastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2012, 05:39 PM
  #48
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 36,064
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roymustgo View Post
Francona was not merely a scapegoat. Are you not tuned into the beer drinking in the bullpen and that whole saga? The bad blood with some of the new free agents? But even if he was a scapegoat, should not Ruff also be fired, merely as a scapegoat? There are plenty of better reasons to do it, but scapegoat works for me.

Any organization must have high standards and accountability when expectations/standards are not met.

And regarding guaranteed contracts, etc., players care more about staying put than you think, especially if they are situated in an organization that believes in them when others may not, and they have been in 1 place for years.

Look, it's this simple: Ruff is part of a culture that promotes comfort and safety and assures everyone involved that mediocrity will be tolerated and in some cases rewarded. That goes from Darcy to Lindy to the players. How many other GMs in this league give Stafford his new contract based on Stafford's entire career, to date? It's like you read somewhere 12 years ago that Lindy Ruff is respected as a good coach, so you are going to hold onto that forever!

Whatever.
Most actually. The problem is most on here have a very weak understanding of the economics of the game.

joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2012, 07:15 PM
  #49
Play4Miracles*
1 nation under Oil
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 5,241
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Not really.

You want posters to agree with your frustration over the goalie decision and nothing more.
Not frustrated at all, they got the win vs. the Canes and Enroth played well. Ruff does that A LOT. And because he does, you think it's logical, but really you're just another member of his flock. I can't make you see the logic if you don't want to, but it's easy to see if you try.

If somebody gives you 86 Bonniville and a 99 Mustang. And one day you have to deliver pizza, and the next you're going out on a first date. You can only use 1 vehicle for each day. Which ride do you choose for each day?

Logic would dictate using the Mustang on day two. Ruff chose the Bonniville and he went home alone. Just because he almost got lucky, doesn't make it the logical choice in hindsight.


Last edited by Play4Miracles*: 03-10-2012 at 08:05 PM.
Play4Miracles* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2012, 07:33 PM
  #50
Play4Miracles*
1 nation under Oil
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 5,241
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
Agreed, I don't understand why we limit arguably our most creative offensive forward by sticking him in front of the net. Put Boyes there and let Vanek run around the perimeter like Pominville and Roy.

I think Ruff is a good coach, but his time has run out, we need a fresh voice in the room. Please Pegula, open your eyes...

Vanek's one of the best net guys in the league, and he's got one of the best shots in the league. He definitely needs to be free to use his vision and shot on the PP sometimes. Keeps his brain stimulated and his back looser. He's gotta be bored to tears standings there getting beat on every power play.

Play4Miracles* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:11 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.