Hahaha hallarious post. Some fans are certainly an anomaly. There's a lot of sensible Leaf fans also they just dont bother to argue because they probably agree with the criticism.
That's correct. I've learned to actually keep my ears to the ground to what 29 other teams' fans are saying, GM's are doing, players playing, etc. etc.
The fanboys will list you off their "just you wait!" prospects but really fall flat in differentiating between their's and the other 29 teams' "just you waits!"
So yes, Luke Schenn at one point was our best prospect. I'm serious. However, Leafs fans were hard pressed to understand the other defencemen in the draft, such as Tyler Myers, Erik Karlsson, Alex Pietrangelo, Zach Bogosian, etc.
Basically Leafs Nation doesn't have much of a problem arranging their own prospects, but when they start comparing across the league, it gets ugly. You get those Subban v Schenn, Kadri v Seguin type threads popping up, periodically.
You guys are pathetic. Why does this need a part 2?
People complain because so many leaf related threads are on the main board but it's the non leaf fans that make them 80% of the time and are the ones that make these threads go 40+ pages.
The "July 1st is our Draft day" quote was from 2010 (to deflect attention away from giving up the second-pick overall). Who did Burke sign in free agency that July? Colby Armstrong.
And he has kept most of his picks? Well, he didn't keep his two best ones.
In 3 years, he has had 23 picks (more than the 21 you start with), including 3 first round picks, 3 second round picks, and 3 third round picks. The 7th overall in 2009 was his second best pick, and he refused to trade that away. He traded away picks that TURNED OUT to be his best and third best picks.
He took a chance that the Leafs wouldn't place in the last 2 in 30 teams in the one year, the only way he would potentially lose the trade. He made one wrong evaluation, just like everybody else in the hockey world did, and ended up with the player with the 5th most points and 3rd most goals in the league.
You're right, he said that in 2010, but the fact remains that he hasn't sabotaged the draft just because he can pay players on July 1st. He also signed Clarke Macarthur to the league's best "bang for your buck" deal that summer, something that is often forgotten.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk41
Market value. That's the excuse given for every one of Burke's bloated contracts. $3 million for Armstrong? Market value. $4.5 million for Komisarek? Market value. $4.75 for Connolly? Market value. Now $5.5 million for Grabovski? Market value.
Burke is the highest paid GM to do what the "market" would allegedly do?
He wasn't going anywhere as he was an RFA.
No, that's the reasoning when deluded people expect every player to come at a huge discount, or don't realize that the market changes and adapts to the changing cap limit.
3 million for armstrong would have been good if he had stayed healthy. 4.5 million would have been good for Komisarek if he had looked anything like the player in Montreal. 4.75 for Connolly was a stop gap because we were weak at center. 3.6 million isn't a bad price for Schenn. 5.5 million for Grabovski isn't a bad price, despite what the idiots who never watch him tell you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk41
Cherry is a blowhard and an idiot, but Burke shouldn't try to use his clout to fire members of the media who criticize him or his team. Makes him like a bully and a cry-baby.
So a region is now a race? Cherry is out to lunch here too, but now a fing region is a race? What race would that be? What race is BC and what race is Saskatchewan? This should be an interesting answer.
He doesn't care when the media criticizes him or his team for hockey related matters. He cares when the media lies, discriminates, and attacks the character of himself, his staff and his players. Just as all of us would.
Each country is a region that people come from, so I don't really see your point. Call it what you want, but it is unfounded discrimination.
He had a season of 67 points, but that was on a different team, after the trade.
Fact is, Kaberle and Schenn were the only players on that team that would net more than a second round pick, and Schenn was in his second year and Kaberle wouldn't waive his NTC. Every other GM has walked into a better situation than that.
He had a season of 67 points, but that was on a different team, after the trade.
Fact is, Kaberle and Schenn were the only players on that team that would net more than a second round pick, and Schenn was in his second year and Kaberle wouldn't waive his NTC. Every other GM has walked into a better situation than that.
08-09:
Toronto = 63gp-46pts Rangers = 18gp-13pts
Total = 81gp-59pts
You're right, he said that in 2010, but the fact remains that he hasn't sabotaged the draft just because he can pay players on July 1st. He also signed Clarke Macarthur to the league's best "bang for your buck" deal that summer, something that is often forgotten.
No, that's the reasoning when deluded people expect every player to come at a huge discount, or don't realize that the market changes and adapts to the changing cap limit.
3 million for armstrong would have been good if he had stayed healthy. 4.5 million would have been good for Komisarek if he had looked anything like the player in Montreal. 4.75 for Connolly was a stop gap because we were weak at center. 3.6 million isn't a bad price for Schenn. 5.5 million for Grabovski isn't a bad price, despite what the idiots who never watch him tell you.
Never said he was sabotaging the draft. The July 1st draft crap was a distraction and had nothing to do with a sabotage.
Clarke Macarthur was a great signing, though not one people were hoping for at the time when Burke said July 1st was his draft (and one that didn't take place in July but that's being really pedantic).
I thought Armstrong was overpaid at the time, especially since he was coming off of a 29-point season and never had a season over 40-points. His grit is overrated. He's more of a pest than anything else. And ******* intangibles.
Even if Connolly is a stop-gap, that doesn't mean he's overpaid.
Grabo's contract isn't horrible, but he's not getting more than 5.5 in the open-market (he's my second favorite current Leaf). But the Leafs are desperate and weren't willing to take that chance.
Mike Komisarek is a slow defensemen with little offensive talent, and that was the case then. The only thing that's changed is he can't even play a good physical game. Maybe Burke should've factored in how Lucic destroyed him. Yes he made an All-Star team--thanks to ballot stuffing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin
He doesn't care when the media criticizes him or his team for hockey related matters. He cares when the media lies, discriminates, and attacks the character of himself, his staff and his players. Just as all of us would.
Each country is a region that people come from, so I don't really see
Burke is free to criticize Cherry and take him head on for all those things you listed. Trying to get him fired is pathetic.
First, just because each country is a region doesn't mean each region is a country. Nice try. Northern Ontario isn't a country, dude.
My point, and it's a very simple one, is that a region isn't a race (a country isn't necessarily one either). So if if Cherry wants players from the local area to play for the local pro hockey club, he's not being racist. He is being silly, however, as (1) there's a draft that prevents a team from gobbling up Ontario players (2) the team would be at a competitive disadvantage if it didn't look for players in all markets.
08-09:
Toronto = 63gp-46pts Rangers = 18gp-13pts
Total = 81gp-59pts
Ah, my bad. Point remains, the end of that season was after the trade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho
Antropov ($4.1 million) >> Tim Connolly ($4.75 million) + Kenny Ryan
Yet another bump in the road for Burke.
Uhhh, no.
Connolly (4.75 as a stop-gap for 2 years) + 2nd round pick > Antropov (4.1 million for 4 years)
And it is irrelevant. I'm not sure why you're even comparing him to Connolly anyway. Aside from the fact that Connolly has been putting up his points on the third line while Antropov has been putting up his on the top line, we needed a culture change, to sell off vets to give the kids a chance, and Antropov had long worn out his welcome in Toronto, as he was injured every other week.
Yeah, you're dealing with some of the crown jewel fanatics of the fanbase here. They've been completely wrong on literally everything to do with the franchise, no exaggeration, but it doesn't stop them from further embarrassing themselves with the "just you wait!" fallacies. I mean, even zeke has been smart enough to lay low over the past month. Some guys just have no shame in their religion beliefs to the Blue and Brian Burke.
Zeke for all his homerism was also able to call a spade a spade. He was more the type that would hype the team in the offseason but during the season he would routinely throw certain players under the bus that needed to be. Zeke was a good poster that just took his love for stats a little too far in evaluating certain players. He's certainly not as bad as many others around here that defend every single move that Burke & Co make.
Nothin' smarter than guys like you drinkin' Mess' KoolAid, right? We traded a draft pick therefore everything must be tewrubble!
I actually dont agree with everything that Mess says. He certainly goes overboard sometimes with his rants but hes been more right then wrong the past 4-5 years in his evaluations of the Leaf teams.
I actually dont agree with everything that Mess says. He certainly goes overboard sometimes with his rants but hes been more right then wrong the past 4-5 years in his evaluations of the Leaf teams.
Are you Dyn? Why the name change?
Anyway, I erased that, cause, well, it's useless. Just another useless Flame War between Leaf fans.
Never said he was sabotaging the draft. The July 1st draft crap was a distraction and had nothing to do with a sabotage.
Clarke Macarthur was a great signing, though not one people were hoping for at the time when Burke said July 1st was his draft (and one that didn't take place in July but that's being really pedantic).
I thought Armstrong was overpaid at the time, especially since he was coming off of a 29-point season and never had a season over 40-points. His grit is overrated. He's more of a pest than anything else. And ******* intangibles.
Even if Connolly is a stop-gap, that doesn't mean he's overpaid.
Grabo's contract isn't horrible, but he's not getting more than 5.5 in the open-market (he's my second favorite current Leaf). But the Leafs are desperate and weren't willing to take that chance.
Mike Komisarek is a slow defensemen with little offensive talent, and that was the case then. The only thing that's changed is he can't even play a good physical game. Maybe Burke should've factored in how Lucic destroyed him. Yes he made an All-Star team--thanks to ballot stuffing.
So why is saying "July first is like our draft, in that we can also get players through that route" such a bad thing, if he wasn't sabotaging the draft?
When Armstrong first started out with us, before all of his injuries, he was well worth the 3 million. He brought grit and energy to this team, and we played considerably better with him in the line-up. Whether your thought he was overpaid at the time is irrelevant.
Connolly may be overpaid for what he ended up bringing, but it was worth it to take the chance that he would mesh with Kessel. It doesn't matter if Connolly is overpaid. It didn't hurt us, only helped us with potential for more. We would have been walking into the season with Grabovski and Bozak as pretty much our only centers. Other teams were offering him the same price. He chose us for the extra year.
Grabovski would have got more in the open market. Guaranteed. Behind Parise, who may not make it to UFA, he is the best forward available. And if we ending up paying what he would have got in UFA, big woop. Grabovski held all of the cards. We got the player we wanted, at a manageable price. Letting him walk for nothing would have set this franchise back even further.
Making the all-star team had nothing to do with it. He was a good defenseman that year. He was offered the same money from multiple other teams.
The Bozak signing is also one that is ignored from that time period. And the Liles signing that came at a discount this year is never brought up.
You don't get it. It doesn't matter if a few of our players are slightly overpaid. It hasn't hindered us in any way, shape or form. If we didn't sign the players we did, it was empty cap space, and you'd all be complaining about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk41
Burke is free to criticize Cherry and take him head on for all those things you listed. Trying to get him fired is pathetic.
First, just because each country is a region doesn't mean each region is a country. Nice try. Northern Ontario isn't a country, dude.
My point, and it's a very simple one, is that a region isn't a race (a country isn't necessarily one either). So if if Cherry wants players from the local area to play for the local pro hockey club, he's not being racist. He is being silly, however, as (1) there's a draft that prevents a team from gobbling up Ontario players (2) the team would be at a competitive disadvantage if it didn't look for players in all markets.
Burke offered to talk things out with Ron, and he refused. If Burke had just gone complaining to the media about Cherry, people would hate him even more.
Cherry blasting Burke like he did is essentially trying to get Leaf fans riled up enough that Burke gets fired. Very little difference. Burke has every right to go to CBC and tell them what he thinks when they are nationally blasting his character and shoving Ontario elitist propaganda in his face. He didn't grab their balls and say "fire him or else". He laid out his case, and none of us know exactly what was said.
I know Ontario isn't a country, thanks, but the same "The person comes from this place so he is better or worse than somebody else" racist logic applies. It's a small step from the usual racist rants he has against European players.
Zeke for all his homerism was also able to call a spade a spade. He was more the type that would hype the team in the offseason but during the season he would routinely throw certain players under the bus that needed to be. Zeke was a good poster that just took his love for stats a little too far in evaluating certain players. He's certainly not as bad as many others around here that defend every single move that Burke & Co make.
He's one of the bigger homers I've encountered here.
Who is the biggest of them all? Have a read through this thread. Shameless really, but very transparent. Oh well. A true fanboy goes down with his ship, I guess.
He's one of the bigger homers I've encountered here.
Who is the biggest of them all? Have a read through this thread. Shameless really, but very transparent. Oh well. A true fanboy goes down with his ship, I guess.
Some change their names, stop posting on the Leafs boards, come to the main boards and spout off fanboy drivel.
Right now, we deserve mocking for how the season and the past years have gone. I've seen a lot of Leafs fans crap on other teams over that time, and I can take as good as I give. We suck right now. I'm not happy with management.
