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All-purpose rant at DL thread (ALL ranting in here + Poll)

View Poll Results: DL next season
He will be fired / I don't want him back 33 30.56%
He will be back next season / I want him Back 27 25.00%
He will be fired / I want him Back 8 7.41%
He will be back / I do NOT want him back 40 37.04%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-23-2012, 05:41 PM
  #451
Herby
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
Alright well, regardless, he wanted 6m at arbitration from the Kings, when they were willing to offer between 3.5-5.

Wether or not that was simply posturing for a league-wide increase is arbitrary. Cammalleri pulled a Doughty, and felt he was worth more then the Kings were offering. Which isn't a great way to come off to a GM.
Cammalleri wanted to sign long term with the Kings, 5/25.

Lombardi made no attempt, never even made an offer. As John said, just a total mismanagement of an asset. John is also right in saying this is a hole Lombardi created and has not been able to replace. Since then the Kings have traded even more assets to try and fill that hole by getting Penner and Smyth.

It seems Mr. Lombardi underestimated the difficulty in finding talented forwards after he "built from the net out"

But still, the fact that he has hasn't drafted and developed a top 6 forward here is more disturbing than even the Cammy and Lubo trades.

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02-23-2012, 05:41 PM
  #452
Jason Lewis
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
That is 100% bull****
Respond to the other post. Unless you just want to say, "We agree to disagree" and move on.

I am okay with that one. I grow tired of arguing with you when it clearly is of no avail. You hate the guy, and you won't give him, any credit.


I'll take the stance of realism and say he has made mistake, and also made good moves.

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02-23-2012, 05:50 PM
  #453
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I have two points with that post.

1. Ryan Smyth a great trade?

Ryan Smyth, Mr. November was a great trade? The Kings were going to spend 6.2 mill a year in cap space (roughly what the Sedin's make) for a guy who couldn't keep up a decent level of play past Christmas. Smyth was embarrassingly bad for the Kings in the second half of last season. Smyth leaving was a blessing. Quincey was just traded for a 1st round pick. Ya we got Quincey off waivers, great that we had the #2 waiver priority and TB didn't want him. We shiuld have kept him or moved him for someone better than geriatric Smyth

2. Jarret Stoll a great player?

He has been horrific this year but he was never good to begin with. Stoll spending three seasons as a 2nd line center is more a black eye than it is praise. The Kings should have gotten more than a 3rd pairing d-man and a scrub for someone like Visnovsky. How you can call it "great" is beyond me.

The rest is whatever. I'm not a huge Williams fan, looking back it was a good trade but Williams is not someone that I think can be an impact forward on a good team.

Quincey waiver pickup was great, but again he was traded for an awful player with a huge cap hit. One step forward 2 steps back.

The fact remains in year 6 of Dean Lombardi the Kings have one of the worst offenses in NHL history and no one in the pipeline to step up. That falls totally on Dean.

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02-23-2012, 05:56 PM
  #454
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Again this is where you and I separate. You WANT to see the bad in everything he does because of your dislike.

It's no use arguing with you because you won't see any logic aside from "Dean Lombardi sucks and should be fired."


Good day to you sir. I leave at that.

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02-23-2012, 05:58 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Cammalleri wanted to sign long term with the Kings, 5/25.

Lombardi made no attempt, never even made an offer. As John said, just a total mismanagement of an asset. John is also right in saying this is a hole Lombardi created and has not been able to replace. Since then the Kings have traded even more assets to try and fill that hole by getting Penner and Smyth.

It seems Mr. Lombardi underestimated the difficulty in finding talented forwards after he "built from the net out"

But still, the fact that he has hasn't drafted and developed a top 6 forward here is more disturbing than even the Cammy and Lubo trades.
Not trying to defend DL too much but the guy did atempt to sign Hossa and Kovalchuk. Gaborik was a slam dunk that he blew and then turned around and signed a guy like Gagne.
Smyth was a good add and he should have finished out his contract. Williams was a good trade. Stoll and Greene wasn't a bad deal. Cammy was a raw deal but I think the blame lies in both camps for that one. Moulson/Purcell/Boyle were not what they are now while on the Kings. Losing Frolov for nothing sucked. The Richards deal needs time to really judge.

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02-23-2012, 06:05 PM
  #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
I have two points with that post.

1. Ryan Smyth a great trade?

Ryan Smyth, Mr. November was a great trade? The Kings were going to spend 6.2 mill a year in cap space (roughly what the Sedin's make) for a guy who couldn't keep up a decent level of play past Christmas. Smyth was embarrassingly bad for the Kings in the second half of last season. Smyth leaving was a blessing. Quincey was just traded for a 1st round pick. Ya we got Quincey off waivers, great that we had the #2 waiver priority and TB didn't want him. We shiuld have kept him or moved him for someone better than geriatric Smyth
Howdy, Herby! Long time no argue.. lol! I didn't realize you made a grand exit. Glad to have you back.

In regards to your Smyth comment, beggars can't be choosers and the Kings needed a scorer and he was willing to waive his NTC. The Kings might have been able to trade Quincy for somebody better but they didn't and my guess is that is because there wasn't a better option. From what I read about the Quincy trade, he was moved from Colorado because they didn't feel they could re-sign him. So if the Kings would have held onto him, they might have been able to squeak at a late first rounder because I doubt he would have wanted to re-sign here either. But there is another issue, the Kings have a plethora of puck movers which means he or someone of lesser value would have been moved. And again,would that/those other players have brought in a player that can score 20 goals (Mr October notwithstanding - did I use that right?).

We all know how Smyth played when he was here and it is quite evident that the Kings missed the big slow trio of Simmonds, Handzus AND... you guessed it, Smyth! Those guys all fit the Style of play you despise. In my opinion, DL started to transform the roster the past year or so and left the same obselete coaching style in place and I think that is the biggest issue at hand right now. I wasn't a fan of the Sutter hiring and I'm not surprised at the results at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
2. Jarret Stoll a great player?

He has been horrific this year but he was never good to begin with. Stoll spending three seasons as a 2nd line center is more a black eye than it is praise. The Kings should have gotten more than a 3rd pairing d-man and a scrub for someone like Visnovsky. How you can call it "great" is beyond me.

The rest is whatever. I'm not a huge Williams fan, looking back it was a good trade but Williams is not someone that I think can be an impact forward on a good team.

Quincey waiver pickup was great, but again he was traded for an awful player with a huge cap hit. One step forward 2 steps back.

The fact remains in year 6 of Dean Lombardi the Kings have one of the worst offenses in NHL history and no one in the pipeline to step up. That falls totally on Dean.
Ok, the Oilers traded Lubo for an oft injured and underwhelming player in Ryan Whitney. So did they blow it too? BTW.. Lubo has been injured a lot outside of his remarkable year last year. I wasn't happy about how that went down. Just like I have mixed feelings about Jack Johnson being traded but he is their best chip to use to get some scoring. Sucks because he has the "tattoo" but it would be borderline stupid to move Doughty even with his bloated contract and Voynov isn't going to get you much.

The last sentence I completely agree with. It is completely unacceptable but at the sametime, almost unexplainable. Everyone is having a horrible year and the real losers in all of this are us. We're losers.

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Old
02-23-2012, 06:09 PM
  #457
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You know, if DL trades Johnson I think that means he is officially full of ****. Visnovsky, Simmonds, Johnson... Get that Kings' tattoo and then... TRADED. Frolov had it, was allowed to walk...

"Character," pass it on.

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02-23-2012, 06:16 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Cammalleri wanted to sign long term with the Kings, 5/25.
And that'd be great if the Kings signed him but he would have 1) produced lower numbers than what he produced elsewhere (see your Los Angeles Kings offensive production primer) 2) He is having trouble staying healthy.

Again, dont' get me wrong, I'd be happy to have had Cammalleri here the whole time but the guy would more than likely be keeping Simon Gagne company on the IR or scoring at a lower rate. He'd be one of the overpaid stiffs like the rest of the team.

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02-23-2012, 06:18 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
You know, if DL trades Johnson I think that means he is officially full of ****. Visnovsky, Simmonds, Johnson... Get that Kings' tattoo and then... TRADED. Frolov had it, was allowed to walk...

"Character," pass it on.
I agree but what are the other options? I think it is probably best just to sell UFA's and fold up shop for the year. Let somebody else come here and do just as bad of a job as DT, DL, Sam McMaster and whoever else once managed the Kings. Face it guys, we're fans of a loser team. Always have been, always will. I'm embracing it.

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02-23-2012, 07:56 PM
  #460
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This is more appropriate for this topic, but if Johnson does go I can't disagree with anyone saying DL treats players wrong. This would have been Cammy, O'Sullivan, Johnson, Lubo, and Drew who all had wars with him over contracts or were signed and then dealt the year after. I can see why we have to trade for players and can't get free agents, players do talk and if DL had the reputation as a GM who treats his players poorly, then it would go a long way to answering why we can't sign guys.

We have had more wars or incidents between player and GM than we should.

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02-23-2012, 08:08 PM
  #461
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Cammalleri wanted to sign long term with the Kings, 5/25.

Lombardi made no attempt, never even made an offer. As John said, just a total mismanagement of an asset.
That is 100% bull ****.

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02-23-2012, 08:20 PM
  #462
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That is 100% bull ****.
Really, because it goes against everything I have ever heard, from various different people.

The Kings had no interest in re-signing him.

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02-23-2012, 08:35 PM
  #463
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Really, because it goes against everything I have ever heard, from various different people.

The Kings had no interest in re-signing him.
Unless one of them was Lombardi or Cammalleri (before the trade), that is not worth much. You do realize that those "various different people" is almost always one source?

From the statements that both Lombardi and Cammalleri have made afterwards I think that it's pretty clear, that both sides were not EVEN close to an agreement, because their perceived values were so different.

After Cammalleri signed his overpaying 6M contract, it's very easy to say "I would have signed 4.5M, but he only offered me 4.4M." Don't be naive. Nobody wants to look greedy.

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02-23-2012, 08:51 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
This is more appropriate for this topic, but if Johnson does go I can't disagree with anyone saying DL treats players wrong. This would have been Cammy, O'Sullivan, Johnson, Lubo, and Drew who all had wars with him over contracts or were signed and then dealt the year after. I can see why we have to trade for players and can't get free agents, players do talk and if DL had the reputation as a GM who treats his players poorly, then it would go a long way to answering why we can't sign guys.

We have had more wars or incidents between player and GM than we should.
Out of that list the only ones that I would consider to be mistreated by Dean were Lubo and Johnson (if he is traded). Especially Lubo. But this happens to every GM. I don't agree with the others particularly.

Drew got a ton of money and very generous offers to begin with.

O'Sullivan wasn't that good and held out. Perhaps he wasn't traded because he held out so much as he wasn't worth the money. His production since then speaks for itself.

Cammy went to arb. how many times? If you ask me, Cammy was the one who pushed first there. I like the guy and wish we could have kept him, but he was in no way mistreated by Dean. His awards came in way under what he was asking in arbitration, IIRC. He was the one asking for a salary out of line, not Dean.

I, for one, wish Dean was a little meaner. He's too soft for my tastes as it is. Some GM's are real a-holes, notable ones are Sinden, Torrey, Lou Lam. Players hated Bill Torrey. Heck, Lou is one of the meanest SOB's there are when it comes to the business side of it. But all these guys are successful and have built some great teams.

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02-23-2012, 08:59 PM
  #465
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Out of that list the only ones that I would consider to be mistreated by Dean were Lubo and Johnson (if he is traded). Especially Lubo. But this happens to every GM. I don't agree with the others particularly.

Drew got a ton of money and very generous offers to begin with.

O'Sullivan wasn't that good and held out. Perhaps he wasn't traded because he held out so much as he wasn't worth the money. His production since then speaks for itself.

Cammy went to arb. how many times? If you ask me, Cammy was the one who pushed first there. I like the guy and wish we could have kept him, but he was in no way mistreated by Dean. His awards came in way under what he was asking in arbitration, IIRC. He was the one asking for a salary out of line, not Dean.

I, for one, wish Dean was a little meaner. He's too soft for my tastes as it is. Some GM's are real a-holes, notable ones are Sinden, Torrey, Lou Lam. Players hated Bill Torrey. Heck, Lou is one of the meanest SOB's there are when it comes to the business side of it. But all these guys are successful and have built some great teams.
I agree with you with one difference being that I would take even Lubo from the list. Only Johnson left. Lombardi didn's mistreat any other player. I still haven't forgotten all the BS Drew and his agent have caused to Kings not so long ago. Who mistreated whom? They mistreated the club they claimed they LOVE to play for. So much actually that they got themselves top 3 or 5 highest contract in the league for their position.

Lubo? Lubo's got himself a NTC, and he played like ****. When he was traded away pretty much every Kings fan said "OMG, thank you!" Also his contract was pretty much market value at the time he signed it, I didn't see much team discount there. He was getting all that money somewhere else for a short time, being injured most of it. Johnson caused no contract trouble, negotiated the contract without an agent and really wanted to stay with the Kings. So he is the only player I would say Lombardi mistreated.

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03-09-2012, 03:08 PM
  #466
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If the Kings miss the playoffs....

If the Kings miss the playoffs do you see DL coming back next season? Do you want him coming back next season??

i just want this team to have a fresh start... New GM, New Coach, NEW SYSTEM

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03-09-2012, 03:09 PM
  #467
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No and **** no.

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03-09-2012, 03:12 PM
  #468
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I don't want him back even if they do make the playoffs. Time to promote Hextall.
If they ownersip is looking at bringing in someone from outside the organization they should make the change now so the new guy has a chance to get a feel for the team and start looking towards the off season and the draft.

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03-09-2012, 03:19 PM
  #469
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I'd be shocked if he wasn't back. The Carter trade pretty much dictates that IMO.

I also want him back, but my leash is getting much shorter. I do cut some slack though because there was pretty much no way to see this season coming. If you go back and read threads about the season during pre-season, most posters here felt the Kings were not only a lock to make the playoffs, but also to go to round two or three. Most thought we had two good scoring lines, a very good 1 thru 3 trio at centre, a top end defense and a great duo in net.

I'm sure DL seen it the same way. Considering we've been healthy for the most part, to expect the Kings would struggle like they have, especially to score, is mind boggling. I'm sure it is to DL too. This season I think has shown some weaknesses in the team and the system, and I think if we can address those, we'll be fine next year.

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03-09-2012, 03:24 PM
  #470
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I'd want him fired, but feel that he would be kept.

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03-09-2012, 03:33 PM
  #471
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If penner were to sign a 1 year deal for half as muich would you want him? There is not alot of good free agents out there after Parise and Suter.

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03-09-2012, 03:39 PM
  #472
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Can't you tell I love DL and want him to be around forever?

/sarcasm


On a serious note, I want him fired but I would be shocked if AEG did jack **** this offseason. Fire him, fire all coaches (including Ranford), and implement a whole new system, one that doesn't stifle offense.

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03-09-2012, 03:42 PM
  #473
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I'd be shocked if he wasn't back. The Carter trade pretty much dictates that IMO.

I also want him back, but my leash is getting much shorter. I do cut some slack though because there was pretty much no way to see this season coming. If you go back and read threads about the season during pre-season, most posters here felt the Kings were not only a lock to make the playoffs, but also to go to round two or three. Most thought we had two good scoring lines, a very good 1 thru 3 trio at centre, a top end defense and a great duo in net.

I'm sure DL seen it the same way. Considering we've been healthy for the most part, to expect the Kings would struggle like they have, especially to score, is mind boggling. I'm sure it is to DL too. This season I think has shown some weaknesses in the team and the system, and I think if we can address those, we'll be fine next year.

I agree eveyone thought the Kings would be a contender this year so the question is why are they not???

If DL wants this team run a certain way and under a certain system and that system is not working then there has to be change

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03-09-2012, 03:43 PM
  #474
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If penner were to sign a 1 year deal for half as muich would you want him? There is not alot of good free agents out there after Parise and Suter.
For a while I was saying yes, but right at this moment, no. I think it's best we just wash our hands of that and move on. I'm surprised we didn't deal him to TO at the deadline for a 3rd or something.

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On a serious note, I want him fired but I would be shocked if AEG did jack **** this offseason. Fire him, fire all coaches (including Ranford), and implement a whole new system, one that doesn't stifle offense.
Considering he has nothing to do with the system and that we'd like to sign Quick to a long-term extension, I don't see the point or the value in firing Ranford. He's done nothing wrong.

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03-09-2012, 03:45 PM
  #475
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we are neck deep in it already, whats another 6 inches?

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