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Pittsburgh's defensemen this offseason

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Old
03-14-2012, 06:33 AM
  #101
bigd
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Originally Posted by Bonesy99 View Post
The penguins do not HAVE to move any D man. The cap is projected to go up to 69.5 mil next year (Barring a lockout, or CBA adjustments) which does nothing but help the penguins.

If the penguins are great at one thing in particular it is following structure. They play an excellent team game and they all know there roles within the system.

They have the 8th least goals against in the NHL, and tied for the least goals against on the PK with a slightly less PK%. I mean 24 goals against on the PK this year!? They have 9 short handed goals this season that means that they are only a -15 while being shorthanded. That is remarkable if you ask me.

Shero does not need to make a big move now to fix any contracts, I would think that he sits this year out and watches to see how the CBA unfolds. I mean if the cap does go to 69 mil the penguins are laughing.

Malkin signs for 9 mil
Crosby signs for 9 mil
Staal signs for 5.5 mil
Letang for 6 mil

that is a combined 4.6 mil raise on the current salaries... This is easily doable as the penguins are a cap team and will be as long as they are contenders with these guys.
I disagree, they do have to move at least one maybe two D-men. All 7 are signed for next season. Strait and Bortuzzo will have to clear waivers next season to be sent down. If we start next season with all the same D-men that means at least 1 or 2 will be lost for nothing through waivers. I don't see how any of them would pass through waivers although Lovejoy wouldn't be any big loss. I would still rather see them get something for him, even a 4th or 5th round pick.

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Old
03-14-2012, 07:02 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonesy99 View Post
The penguins do not HAVE to move any D man. The cap is projected to go up to 69.5 mil next year (Barring a lockout, or CBA adjustments) which does nothing but help the penguins.

If the penguins are great at one thing in particular it is following structure. They play an excellent team game and they all know there roles within the system.

They have the 8th least goals against in the NHL, and tied for the least goals against on the PK with a slightly less PK%. I mean 24 goals against on the PK this year!? They have 9 short handed goals this season that means that they are only a -15 while being shorthanded. That is remarkable if you ask me.

Shero does not need to make a big move now to fix any contracts, I would think that he sits this year out and watches to see how the CBA unfolds. I mean if the cap does go to 69 mil the penguins are laughing.

Malkin signs for 9 mil
Crosby signs for 9 mil
Staal signs for 5.5 mil
Letang for 6 mil

that is a combined 4.6 mil raise on the current salaries... This is easily doable as the penguins are a cap team and will be as long as they are contenders with these guys.
We don't HAVE to move any, no...but it would be wise asset management with Bort and Strait having to clear waivers next year and Despres looking like a legit #4 guy right now.

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Old
03-14-2012, 07:58 AM
  #103
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If we whiff on the higher end FAs, I wouldn't mind the Wild inquiring on Martin (and no, it's not a Minnesotan thing). We'll have the cap space, and he would fill a need, but I'm not sure I'd like the asking price. Not sure he would waive his NTC to come here, though.

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03-14-2012, 08:19 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
If we whiff on the higher end FAs, I wouldn't mind the Wild inquiring on Martin (and no, it's not a Minnesotan thing). We'll have the cap space, and he would fill a need, but I'm not sure I'd like the asking price. Not sure he would waive his NTC to come here, though.
Not sure what the asking price would be but I don't think it would be that high as Martin's NTC would limit the teams he can be traded to. A late first or B level Prospect + pick seems like fair value.

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03-14-2012, 12:50 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
If we whiff on the higher end FAs, I wouldn't mind the Wild inquiring on Martin (and no, it's not a Minnesotan thing). We'll have the cap space, and he would fill a need, but I'm not sure I'd like the asking price. Not sure he would waive his NTC to come here, though.
If the Pens were to actually deal Martin, it would be for salary dumping reasons. So I don't think the price would be all that high. At the very least, it likely wouldn't involve any current Wild roster players, as the Pens likely don't want to be taking salary back since the whole reason for the trade is to free up $5 million in cap space to spend elsewhere. You're probably looking at draft picks and/or prospects as the asking price.

As for his NTC, would he not want to play in his home state? I don't know how sentimental he is, so maybe it isn't a factor for him. But I'd think that might be a plus in the Wild's favor.

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03-14-2012, 01:08 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
Not sure what the asking price would be but I don't think it would be that high as Martin's NTC would limit the teams he can be traded to. A late first or B level Prospect + pick seems like fair value.
It'll be interesting what the return is. The amount of teams able to take on his salary doesn't really matter as much imo. There aren't 1st pairing D-men available, if a team wants him, they'll have to pay.

Personally, if we don't trade him until next offseason, I wouldn't mind picking up a mid-1st and trying to trade up to get an impact forward.

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03-14-2012, 01:10 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
If the Pens were to actually deal Martin, it would be for salary dumping reasons. So I don't think the price would be all that high. At the very least, it likely wouldn't involve any current Wild roster players, as the Pens likely don't want to be taking salary back since the whole reason for the trade is to free up $5 million in cap space to spend elsewhere. You're probably looking at draft picks and/or prospects as the asking price.

As for his NTC, would he not want to play in his home state? I don't know how sentimental he is, so maybe it isn't a factor for him. But I'd think that might be a plus in the Wild's favor.
Precisely.

Being from here might be enough to keep us off his "no" list, but if he really wanted to come back, I think he would've as a free agent a couple years ago. Unless my memory fails me, we made him an offer and he chose Pitt over us (and justifiably so).

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03-14-2012, 01:18 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Precisely.

Being from here might be enough to keep us off his "no" list, but if he really wanted to come back, I think he would've as a free agent a couple years ago. Unless my memory fails me, we made him an offer and he chose Pitt over us (and justifiably so).
You don't want to give up a draft pick or a prospect for him? It's not like it'll be a prospect like Granlund or Brodin going. Likely the next tier down from those guys.

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03-14-2012, 01:44 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
You don't want to give up a draft pick or a prospect for him? It's not like it'll be a prospect like Granlund or Brodin going. Likely the next tier down from those guys.
Yeah, I agree, it's kind of a weird mindset, but that's what happens when you go from one of the worst prospect pools in the NHL to one of the best in a matter of 2 years.

I assume by "B" prospect, you would mean somebody like Zucker, Phillips, Bulmer or Lucia, all of whom I would hesitate on giving up, as I feel like they will all play a significant role in the future of the organization.

Maybe I'm underestimating Martin and need to see more Pens games... I wish NBCSN or NBC would put them on national TV once in a while.

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Old
03-14-2012, 02:17 PM
  #110
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I would like to see Martin moved for a guy like Simon Gagne (signed for 1 more season at a $3.5m hit). Martin isn't getting moved without some salary coming back. I'd like to see him moved for someone established that could be a short-term high risk/high reward option. If the piece Martin is moved for doesn't work out, so be it. Clears cap space for when Malkin/Staal are up for new deals.
You should get a player like Gagne, that would make sense if you could fleece another team for a player like him.

But you won't get Gagne himself from LA. We don't consider him a bad contract and we won't have any more bad contracts at the end of the season when we all can make trades again. And LA is LOADED on defense.

Pens and Kings want the same players, talented scoring wingers for the top six. Thus we are bad trading partners.

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03-14-2012, 03:10 PM
  #111
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maybe Martin for Gonchar?

We could then flip Gonchar or we could have him for the next season then he will be a UFA?

or Hainsey for Martin?

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:26 AM
  #112
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Martin will be moved before the end of his contract, IMO, which I have said all along. However, I do not think he will be moved this summer unless we sign Ryan Suter instead, which is a move I would whole-heartedly support.

Despres is NOT ready to step into a top 4 role next year. In theory, he COULD do it, but he is not optimal for that role, and is better off becoming an AHL all-star before he makes that jump. I expect him to have another season in the AHL.

Otherwise, I expect that Lovejoy will be traded and Bortuzzo taking over his spot as the #7 guy. Strait will likely be traded, as well.

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Old
03-17-2012, 09:09 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
If the Pens were to actually deal Martin, it would be for salary dumping reasons. So I don't think the price would be all that high. At the very least, it likely wouldn't involve any current Wild roster players
I don't think you realize in how high regard Bylsma and Shero holds Martin. For good reason also.
Yes, he has had a very forgettable season and was frankly terrible for a while, but that is a blip when considering his career and he is coming along fine now. He is a good number two defenseman on most teams in the league, munches minutes and improves every PK while providing good puck movement from the back.
I just don't get those who think that he wouldn't yield a substantial return if traded.

But that said, a good return can also be cap-related. The Pens could be happy getting a good young forward at a good cap-hit instead of Martin rather than getting a higher end forward with a big cap-hit.
I personally hope that is what happens with Despres given the key's to the top4.

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03-17-2012, 09:19 AM
  #114
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Could any trades be made with the Oilers to acquire one of those D-men?

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03-17-2012, 09:20 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by SIDGENO8771 View Post
maybe Martin for Gonchar?

We could then flip Gonchar or we could have him for the next season then he will be a UFA?

or Hainsey for Martin?
Oh my goodness.



Do you people just hate Martin or do you actually think this is what his value is?

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03-17-2012, 09:46 AM
  #116
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I would honestly like to see Lovejoy and Niskanen traded and Strait & Despres take their place. I think they would both improve our defense and cost much less. Strait will be resigned at something close to a Lovejoy deal and Despres has 2 more years on his ELC. Lovejoy is older that Strait and only has 1 year left and if we could get a good draft pick that would be good asset managment. I like Niskanen but I think he's going to want more than the Pens are willing to pay and I think Despres is ready to take his place. Plus I think this is a good year to load up on draft picks to make the hometown fans happy.


Last edited by bigd: 03-17-2012 at 09:53 AM.
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03-17-2012, 10:20 AM
  #117
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Could any trades be made with the Oilers to acquire one of those D-men?
A deal centered around Martin/Paajarvi could work if Niskanen proves himself in the playoffs.

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03-17-2012, 10:37 AM
  #118
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Oh my goodness.



Do you people just hate Martin or do you actually think this is what his value is?
lol, his value is much higher, I was just trying to get interest then ask for more.

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A deal centered around Martin/Paajarvi could work if Niskanen proves himself in the playoffs.
Done, Paajarvi could flourish with us.

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03-17-2012, 10:49 AM
  #119
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Martin to Minnesota

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03-17-2012, 11:01 AM
  #120
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Martin will be moved before the end of his contract, IMO, which I have said all along. However, I do not think he will be moved this summer unless we sign Ryan Suter instead, which is a move I would whole-heartedly support.

Despres is NOT ready to step into a top 4 role next year. In theory, he COULD do it, but he is not optimal for that role, and is better off becoming an AHL all-star before he makes that jump. I expect him to have another season in the AHL.

Otherwise, I expect that Lovejoy will be traded and Bortuzzo taking over his spot as the #7 guy. Strait will likely be traded, as well.
We don't need Suter on this team, even if cap goes up 7M like rumors are saying it may. Our D is loaded, and has cheap replacements. We need a "Neal" for Crosby, and perhaps some more depth in our top 9. As sick as a Letang-Suter pairing would be, it's a secondary need at best.

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03-19-2012, 08:14 PM
  #121
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He may not be playing to his contract, but I can't see Martin being the odd man out. I would guess it would just be Niskanen.
Why? Niskanen brings almost the same skill set to the table that Martin brings. And he can do it for half the price (or less). Niskanen can play as a number #4 dman. Perhaps a #3 in a pinch (to cover for injuries, etc). Martin can be moved for something.

I don't see Despres in the show yet. Likely he'll spend next year in the A logging top minutes. Pens have no need to rush him.

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We don't need Suter on this team, even if cap goes up 7M like rumors are saying it may. Our D is loaded, and has cheap replacements. We need a "Neal" for Crosby, and perhaps some more depth in our top 9. As sick as a Letang-Suter pairing would be, it's a secondary need at best.
Agreed. You can win a cup without a #1 D. I'd much rather move Martin for a pick, and use that money to resign Niskanen and put the rest towards a quality forward.

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03-19-2012, 08:30 PM
  #122
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Agreed. You can win a cup without a #1 D. I'd much rather move Martin for a pick, and use that money to resign Niskanen and put the rest towards a quality forward.
Um, there is that Letang fellow...

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03-19-2012, 08:32 PM
  #123
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Agreed. You can win a cup without a #1 D.
I think you meant to say that you can win a cup without two #1 Ds.

Letang is a #1 on most teams.

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03-19-2012, 09:12 PM
  #124
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I'd LOVE a pairing of Letang-Suter, but i don't think it's a need or secondary need for this team with all the D prospects we got for much cheaper. Suter+Letang=10M for 1 pairing. With Letang-Suter pairing, we would just dominate defensivly.

Letang-Suter
Despres-Michalek
Eng-Orpik
Strait

But IMO a winger for Crosby is a much bigger need, then help on D. I'd go for Parise WAY before i'd go for Suter.

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03-19-2012, 10:24 PM
  #125
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Will St. Louis need some Dmen next season? i know they're prob gonna win the President's Trophy this year with the ones they've got, but Colaiacovo, Jackman, and Huskins will be FA next year.

Maybe they'd want to replace one of em with one of the Penguins' Dmen? who would they want for D'Agostini?

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