Facts: Andy signed for a long term contact. Bishops signed to a one way deal. Lehner signed to a two way. Next year we're rolling Andy and Bishop. Lehner starts in the AHL and stays there till he proves himself and gets called up for injuries etc.
No seriously, I wish starting threads would require (several) mods approval... So many random thoughts turn into threads. If I was making threads every time I go on the throne...
"a trade HAS to be made"... lmao, like it was wrong to have 3 capable goalies, in a franchise that has been starving for goaltending talent for so long. It wouldn't surprise me to read :
"Let's get rid of 2 of them, get a 2nd and 3rd round pick back if possible, or just the most we can, but we can't afford to have 3 goalies."
The Sens really don't need to do anything their goalie situation is in fine shape but they do have some options. There are two NCAA free agent goalies available, maybe the Murray's sign one of them to play in Bingo next yr with Lehner. Maybe a European free agent gaolie or draft one in the later rounds. Lehner should be in Bingo next season, he really needs to play an entire season in Bingo & prove he can play good consistently for a full yr & not just a few games here & there.
It's going to be tough to be patient, but I think the Senators should let Lehner tend net for Binghamton for another two seasons. Despite the fact Anderson has been doing well for the Sens since the trade with Colorado and the trade for Bishop, I think Lehner is THE guy for the future, hence he needs to be the one to take his time developing while Anderson/Bishop take care of things in the NHL in the meantime.
At first glance, sending Lehner down and bringing Bishop up to the NHL makes it look like Bishop won the job or is better, but in fact I'm willing to bet it's the opposite in the eyes of Senators brass. I'm not saying Bishop has lost the job either because there really hasn't been an audition yet. It's just that Lehner is the #1 guy for the future so the Senators aren't going to take any chances with him, which is why he was sent back down.
Keep in mind, the Habs ALMOST ruined Carey Price by gifting him the starting job after he won a Calder Cup with Hamilton. The only reason he and the Habs escaped a total catastrophe is because Price is the definition of a franchise goalie - we don't know if Lehner is yet - and he has exceptional mental toughness.
It's going to be tough to be patient, but I think the Senators should let Lehner tend net for Binghamton for another two seasons. Despite the fact Anderson has been doing well for the Sens since the trade with Colorado and the trade for Bishop, I think Lehner is THE guy for the future, hence he needs to be the one to take his time developing while Anderson/Bishop take care of things in the NHL in the meantime.
At first glance, sending Lehner down and bringing Bishop up to the NHL makes it look like Bishop won the job or is better, but in fact I'm willing to bet it's the opposite in the eyes of Senators brass. I'm not saying Bishop has lost the job either because there really hasn't been an audition yet. It's just that Lehner is the #1 guy for the future so the Senators aren't going to take any chances with him, which is why he was sent back down.
Keep in mind, the Habs ALMOST ruined Carey Price by gifting him the starting job after he won a Calder Cup with Hamilton. The only reason he and the Habs escaped a total catastrophe is because Price is the definition of a franchise goalie - we don't know if Lehner is yet - and he has exceptional mental toughness.
Not sure why your saying Lehner has mental toughness. One of his Knocks is that he's weak mentally. That became obvious at the world juniors.
We won't trade Anderson. He's one of the main reasons we're playing so well this season. I like an Anderson/Bishop goaltending duo for next season though.
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Kudos to the Ottawa Senators for the great season despite injuries to their 3 best players.
We have a total of three goalies in the organization worth speaking of and you want to trade one?
A team can manage up to about 7 goalies (2 NHL, 3AHL/ECHL, 2 in NCAA/Europe/Major Jr) - that's proper depth. People need to start looking at things like the Detroit system, and instilling the feeling of actually needing to pay your dues and develop before playing in the big club.
As far as drafting - goalies are like quarterbacks in football. You should draft one a year, regardless - because they're an absolute crapshoot on who is actually going to turn out. Too many mental factors in play when you're picking at a young age, on top of the various physical and technical elements still in play.
Not sure why your saying Lehner has mental toughness. One of his Knocks is that he's weak mentally. That became obvious at the world juniors.
1) He said Price has mental toughness.
2) Lehner stepped in during the first round of last year's AHL playoffs, dragged Binghamton back from a 3-1 deficit, then carried them all the way to the championship, being named the Calder Cup MVP. I'd say that takes a good amount of mental toughness.
We have a total of three goalies in the organization worth speaking of and you want to trade one?
A team can manage up to about 7 goalies (2 NHL, 3AHL/ECHL, 2 in NCAA/Europe/Major Jr) - that's proper depth. People need to start looking at things like the Detroit system, and instilling the feeling of actually needing to pay your dues and develop before playing in the big club.
As far as drafting - goalies are like quarterbacks in football. You should draft one a year, regardless - because they're an absolute crapshoot on who is actually going to turn out. Too many mental factors in play when you're picking at a young age, on top of the various physical and technical elements still in play.
Agreed with this 100%. I like the strategy of drafting a goalie per year. It keeps the cycle going. Half the process is development, it's not all about the scouting and the actual drafting. I'm not saying the Sens should just draft goalies willy nilly, they've got to do their homework and actually pick someone they think has got a shot at playing in the NHL, but just get one more goalie into the system every draft and develop them from there. It's not quite like forwards where your later picks are usually boom or bust. It's actually pretty common to get a capable NHL goalie from a late round pick. Brian Elliott anyone? I know, bad example, but that's just an example from the Senators system. How about Miller? Lundqvist? Rinne? Kiprusoff? Nabokov? Quick? All late round picks.
Caeldan
There are very few teams that have 7 in there farm system etc that are going to be starters.
Obviously not everyone is a starter... but look at teams known for their goalies (ie SJ). They draft one or two every year and take the time on some to develop them.
Then you look at a team like us, where we've drafted maybe one every three or four years. Now tell me consistently cycling young goalies into your system does nothing for your goalie pool.
Lehner is making it hard for management. He seems to be the kind of guy that gains from being in NHL rather than the AHL: McGuire has been talking about it on his segments on 1200. Some players benefit from having the structure that is in place on NHL teams where as the AHL is more bushleague.
9 times out of 10 I'd say let the kid show what he can do in the AHL before considering him for a regular NHL spot. But Lehner might be that exception...
Still it would be silly to forfeit goaltending depth because Lehner can't handle the AHL.
I don't think Lehner's going to bolt. The kid wants to prove himself, he wants to be the best. Bringing in competition just means he's going to push himself harder.
__________________ CanadianHockey________ __ __________Sens, Oilers, and Team Canada
Lehner has looked much better than Bishop so far. I'm still not making a judgement though because Lehner THRIVES during important games and his firsts while Bishop is kinda the opposite, he gets better as he plays more games.
We have a beautiful goaltending situation though, don't know why anyone is complaining.
I have a feeling Lehner is pissed off and Murray and Maclean treat him like a child lets see how long he puts up with this **** .. My guess he is gone possibly this summer or next max
I have a feeling Lehner is pissed off and Murray and Maclean treat him like a child lets see how long he puts up with this **** .. My guess he is gone possibly this summer or next max
Once again, my position here is that if Lehner is too much of a hothead to pay his dues in the AHL as a 20 year old goalie, then THAT is the bigger problem here, not what Management is doing. If Lehner REALLY is going to pull a suck about it, I question his future as an NHL goalie.
I love that people here immediately jump to conclusions that Lehner is/ might be ready to jump ship, or that he's being treated poorly in ANY way, shape or form. Ask almost any goalie still on their ELC, and ask them if "actively being groomed to be the starting goaltender for what looks to be a very young, exciting and competitive team the next decade+" is considered being treated poorly, and I can almost assure you, man-for-man, every one will gladly, GLADLY take that scenario over almost any other in the league.
Just enjoy our goaltending depth, jeez. Filatov is Filatov. Lehner is not Filatov. Zibanejad is not Filatov. The sky is not falling.
I don't think Lehner's going to bolt. The kid wants to prove himself, he wants to be the best. Bringing in competition just means he's going to push himself harder.
Agreed.
We've never been fortunate before to be in the situation we're in now with Andy, Bishop and Lehner. You don't trade one of them just because. You let them develop (and build up their value) before you even consider trading one for another organizational need.
The Sens really don't need to do anything their goalie situation is in fine shape but they do have some options. There are two NCAA free agent goalies available, maybe the Murray's sign one of them to play in Bingo next yr with Lehner. Maybe a European free agent gaolie or draft one in the later rounds. Lehner should be in Bingo next season, he really needs to play an entire season in Bingo & prove he can play good consistently for a full yr & not just a few games here & there.
I don't think Lehner's going to bolt. The kid wants to prove himself, he wants to be the best. Bringing in competition just means he's going to push himself harder.
Lehner's dad is a goalie coach in KHL I believe. That could influence him to ask for a "loan" situation while he develops; whichj would be horrible I think, but way more money, closer to home and friends.
I agree he needs time before taking the No1 and being the backup is not the best way.
I'd frankly like to rotate Bishop and Lehner in and out of Bingo (won't happen with Bishop's one-way) so they are both fresh and tested.
Murray has given us a fabulous chance with these three guys, any one of whom would bring a 1st + at the Draft or Deadline next year. We don't want to mess this up.
any truth to the rumour someone anonomously sent him a freezer full of frozen chicken?
I think they wait to make sure any seepage from the wound will not happen and infect the hand. They have time until the playoffs, maybe a couple of games before to tune him up.
How the heck would Bishop bring in a 1st+ when he was just acquired for a second...
So you lot ramble on endlessly about how we need goaltending depth, for good reason, but now that we actually have it, you want to ship 1 of them out. The hell?...
Lehner's dad is a goalie coach in KHL I believe. That could influence him to ask for a "loan" situation while he develops; whichj would be horrible I think, but way more money, closer to home and friends.
I agree he needs time before taking the No1 and being the backup is not the best way.
I'd frankly like to rotate Bishop and Lehner in and out of Bingo (won't happen with Bishop's one-way) so they are both fresh and tested.
Murray has given us a fabulous chance with these three guys, any one of whom would bring a 1st + at the Draft or Deadline next year. We don't want to mess this up.
What I don't like about players leaving to play in the KHL or SEL from a Sens perspective is that they can't be called up when needed if there are injuries. In Bingo they are only one injury to a roster player away from being called up, in Russia or Sweden they are another yr away from being called up. That doesn't help the Sens.
The only way I would trade one of these 3 goalies & likely Bishop since I think Lehner is almost just as good now at a younger age would be in a package for someone like Rick Nash over the summer. Something like Silfverberg, Bishop, Wiercioch, Butler & 2013 1st rd pick for Rick Nash might be worth thinking about. Other than that, the Sens are in a great position to replace UFAs with prospects & let the best of them develop at the NHL level each yr by adding two or three prospects each yr.
How the heck would Bishop bring in a 1st+ when he was just acquired for a second...
So you lot ramble on endlessly about how we need goaltending depth, for good reason, but now that we actually have it, you want to ship 1 of them out. The hell?...
