HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Let the Players have the money

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-09-2004, 04:13 PM
  #1
RLC
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 622
vCash: 500
Let the Players have the money

Ok everyone, Lets invite all the NHL players to the Yankee stadium infield where all the Salerie money has been piled up, right in the middle of the playing field and lets see just who gets how much. I vote for a winner take all system. Everyone fights for every last dime until only one player is left standing and he gets it all. That's right pay one player everything. 1.2 Billion per year to be all players on the ice at the same time. Humm Wait ! he might have to hire some support players because he can't do it all. So now he has to negotiate with all these greedy support players untill not only has he spent all the 1.2 Billion but now he has to give up some of his own money to the tune of 200 million per year. He would be the only man ever to declair bankruptcy with an income of 1.2 Billion.

RLC is offline  
Old
11-09-2004, 04:25 PM
  #2
vanlady
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 810
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLC
Ok everyone, Lets invite all the NHL players to the Yankee stadium infield where all the Salerie money has been piled up, right in the middle of the playing field and lets see just who gets how much. I vote for a winner take all system. Everyone fights for every last dime until only one player is left standing and he gets it all. That's right pay one player everything. 1.2 Billion per year to be all players on the ice at the same time. Humm Wait ! he might have to hire some support players because he can't do it all. So now he has to negotiate with all these greedy support players untill not only has he spent all the 1.2 Billion but now he has to give up some of his own money to the tune of 200 million per year. He would be the only man ever to declair bankruptcy with an income of 1.2 Billion.
I have a real problem with people that characterize all NHL players as greedy. I suggest you take a look here in Vancouver, our players and management are busting their butts to make sure that ALL the Canucks commitments to their charities are met. Including 4 charity hockey games throughout the province, which the players are paying their own way and providing the equipment and jerseys. So when you start shooting your mouth off about greedy players I suggest to contact the Administrator of Canucks place who receive 1/3 of their total budget from the Canucks, and explain to her about the greedy players and how self centered they are. You will get the ultimate rude surprise. Our players spend a lot of time with kids that have "life limiting diseases" another words they are dying. Oh and it is not just for the cameras, these guys can be seen there at all times of the day and night when they are in town. Oh and for those of you who say well it is a committment to the team, how come they are attending these events during the lockout.

http://forum.canucks.com/viewtopic.p...asc&start=5865

vanlady is offline  
Old
11-09-2004, 07:47 PM
  #3
quat
intheDanRusseljungle
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victoria BC
Posts: 8,991
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to quat
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanlady
I have a real problem with people that characterize all NHL players as greedy. I suggest you take a look here in Vancouver, our players and management are busting their butts to make sure that ALL the Canucks commitments to their charities are met. Including 4 charity hockey games throughout the province, which the players are paying their own way and providing the equipment and jerseys. So when you start shooting your mouth off about greedy players I suggest to contact the Administrator of Canucks place who receive 1/3 of their total budget from the Canucks, and explain to her about the greedy players and how self centered they are. You will get the ultimate rude surprise. Our players spend a lot of time with kids that have "life limiting diseases" another words they are dying. Oh and it is not just for the cameras, these guys can be seen there at all times of the day and night when they are in town. Oh and for those of you who say well it is a committment to the team, how come they are attending these events during the lockout.

http://forum.canucks.com/viewtopic.p...asc&start=5865
No offence Vanlady, but there are lot's of other people around who volunteer large amounts of their time and energy helping others, and I'm guessing that most earn a fraction of what these atheletes do. I think you should think a little more about things before you comment, because it's clear what posters are complaining about when they talk about "greedy players". Don't bother taking it in directions it was never meant to go.

quat is offline  
Old
11-09-2004, 07:55 PM
  #4
vanlady
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 810
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by quat
No offence Vanlady, but there are lot's of other people around who volunteer large amounts of their time and energy helping others, and I'm guessing that most earn a fraction of what these atheletes do. I think you should think a little more about things before you comment, because it's clear what posters are complaining about when they talk about "greedy players". Don't bother taking it in directions it was never meant to go.
What I have a problem with is the generalization. Not all players in the NHL are greedy. There is a reason Trevor Linden was given the Govenor Generals Humanitarian Award this year. Oh and you might be surprised to learn just how much money players donate to charities in your community. If they are so greedy would they do that??? Before you say it is only in NHL cities, I suggest you go to your local hockey rink and ask if they have ever received any money from the NHLPA Goals and Dreams fund. Labeling players as greedy is a character assasination of a whole group of people.

vanlady is offline  
Old
11-09-2004, 08:09 PM
  #5
PecaFan
Registered User
 
PecaFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Ottawa (Go 'Nucks)
Posts: 8,905
vCash: 500
A great many players work hard for charity. But a great many also have to be forced into it by management. Much of the work done by Canucks is *required* by Burke and now Nonis.

Why are they doing it now? Some want to. Some others probably have been told by the PA to get out there, since the public relations is kicking the players in the ass.

And as mentioned, lots of folks donate time and money to charity.

PecaFan is offline  
Old
11-09-2004, 08:26 PM
  #6
vanlady
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 810
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
A great many players work hard for charity. But a great many also have to be forced into it by management. Much of the work done by Canucks is *required* by Burke and now Nonis.

Why are they doing it now? Some want to. Some others probably have been told by the PA to get out there, since the public relations is kicking the players in the ass.

And as mentioned, lots of folks donate time and money to charity.
The problem with your theory is the fact that many of these players have been maintaining there charity work and donations since the season ended. That is not part of their job, that is because they actually care.

Oh and I do realize people volunteer their time, I do, more than I should. Do you? Maybe why I defend these guys so much, because I have had the opportunity to meet a few?? And know just how much they do care? And realize just how polar opposite they are from the depictions above.

vanlady is offline  
Old
11-09-2004, 09:07 PM
  #7
thinkwild
Veni Vidi Toga
 
thinkwild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,279
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
A great many players work hard for charity. But a great many also have to be forced into it by management. Much of the work done by Canucks is *required* by Burke and now Nonis.
Some may start off that way. But few end up that way. Ottawa players also make many unannounced visits to the childrens hospital to play video games with the kids amongst many other things. Some of them get very emotionally attached to their charities.

thinkwild is offline  
Old
11-09-2004, 09:15 PM
  #8
mazmin
Go! Jets! Go!
 
mazmin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,835
vCash: 500
Hockey players, in general, have long been known as classy individuals.

The problem today is that the disgusting amount of money is ruining them.

From hold outs to lockouts... it's all about the money.

Their "Classy" image is turning (or has already turned) into a "greedy" image... at least in the opinions of myself and my peers.

mazmin is offline  
Old
11-09-2004, 09:39 PM
  #9
thinkwild
Veni Vidi Toga
 
thinkwild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,279
vCash: 500
Its all about fairness. Classy people dont ask for their fair worth? Classy people accept not getting a fair deal? The players are standing on principle. The owners are standing on greed and lying to brainwash you into thinking its the players fault and only the owners illegal system will work.

I think classy people dont exhibit petty jealousy because the money is larger than they could ever imagine.

thinkwild is offline  
Old
11-09-2004, 09:57 PM
  #10
PecaFan
Registered User
 
PecaFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Ottawa (Go 'Nucks)
Posts: 8,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanlady
The problem with your theory is the fact that many of these players have been maintaining there charity work and donations since the season ended. That is not part of their job, that is because they actually care.
I dealt with that "problem" in my second sentence.

Quote:
Maybe why I defend these guys so much, because I have had the opportunity to meet a few?? And know just how much they do care? And realize just how polar opposite they are from the depictions above.
Of course, that's a self selecting sample. You meet the good ones, of course. The bad ones you don't meet, because they're at home strangling kittens, not volunteering. Kinda like hanging out at the complaint department for a shoe store, and thinking there's nothing but trouble with the products they sell.

Nobody said there weren't some great compassionate players out there. Just don't try and paint them all as saints.

PecaFan is offline  
Old
11-09-2004, 10:11 PM
  #11
vanlady
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 810
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
I dealt with that "problem" in my second sentence.



Of course, that's a self selecting sample. You meet the good ones, of course. The bad ones you don't meet, because they're at home strangling kittens, not volunteering. Kinda like hanging out at the complaint department for a shoe store, and thinking there's nothing but trouble with the products they sell.

Nobody said there weren't some great compassionate players out there. Just don't try and paint them all as saints.
The don't paint them all GREEDY

vanlady is offline  
Old
11-09-2004, 10:58 PM
  #12
PecaFan
Registered User
 
PecaFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Ottawa (Go 'Nucks)
Posts: 8,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanlady
The don't paint them all GREEDY
I didn't. The word never appeared in a single one of my posts.

PecaFan is offline  
Old
11-09-2004, 11:32 PM
  #13
vanlady
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 810
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
I didn't. The word never appeared in a single one of my posts.
No but the first poster did.

vanlady is offline  
Old
11-10-2004, 02:05 AM
  #14
quat
intheDanRusseljungle
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victoria BC
Posts: 8,991
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to quat
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanlady
What I have a problem with is the generalization. Not all players in the NHL are greedy. There is a reason Trevor Linden was given the Govenor Generals Humanitarian Award this year. Oh and you might be surprised to learn just how much money players donate to charities in your community. If they are so greedy would they do that??? Before you say it is only in NHL cities, I suggest you go to your local hockey rink and ask if they have ever received any money from the NHLPA Goals and Dreams fund. Labeling players as greedy is a character assasination of a whole group of people.
No offence, but you made a point of intentionally questioning the credibility of all owners on a different thread, so you are certainly not one to complain about generalizations. Obviously you aren't willing to understand what people mean when they say "players are greedy", or at least what they are refering to. It's pointless to take comments out of context, and intentionaly misinterpreting a poster doesn't really make much sense either.

For my part, I'm pretty sure that guys like Linden do think they are doing what's best for them. I also think Linden is out to lunch and doesn't really have a very good grasp of what he's talking about. It doesn't make his volunteer efforts any less, but they don't make him any smarter either.

Again I kind of find this a bit funny from you, as on the Beliveau thread you were totally dissing him, and he's a player many compare Linden to. Don't you find this a bit odd?

quat is offline  
Old
11-10-2004, 03:03 AM
  #15
me2
Seahawks 43
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Broncos 8
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 17,974
vCash: 50
there is no reason a a person can't be greedy for money and generous with their time.

me2 is offline  
Old
11-10-2004, 09:36 AM
  #16
vanlady
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 810
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by quat
No offence, but you made a point of intentionally questioning the credibility of all owners on a different thread, so you are certainly not one to complain about generalizations. Obviously you aren't willing to understand what people mean when they say "players are greedy", or at least what they are refering to. It's pointless to take comments out of context, and intentionaly misinterpreting a poster doesn't really make much sense either.

For my part, I'm pretty sure that guys like Linden do think they are doing what's best for them. I also think Linden is out to lunch and doesn't really have a very good grasp of what he's talking about. It doesn't make his volunteer efforts any less, but they don't make him any smarter either.

Again I kind of find this a bit funny from you, as on the Beliveau thread you were totally dissing him, and he's a player many compare Linden to. Don't you find this a bit odd?
The difference, generalizing the players as greedy is an opinion, with no factual back up. Do you have articles and links that are nothing more than character assasinations??? The difference, I can prove through links that the owners have a history of fraudulent behavior.

The point, the players being greedy is a personal opinion without any factual back up, generally derived from the NHL propoganda.

By the way, Beliveau has not been a player for a long time. He is management.

Once and for all, Trevor Linden is the President of the Union, it is his job to speak the feelings of the whole union, not his own. The players have given him a mandate and it is his job to fulfill it.

What blows me away, I can see where at least a portion of the millions the players make goes. I have yet to see a penny that John McCaw makes off this team go into my community.

vanlady is offline  
Old
11-10-2004, 03:21 PM
  #17
quat
intheDanRusseljungle
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victoria BC
Posts: 8,991
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to quat
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanlady
The difference, generalizing the players as greedy is an opinion, with no factual back up. Do you have articles and links that are nothing more than character assasinations??? The difference, I can prove through links that the owners have a history of fraudulent behavior.

The point, the players being greedy is a personal opinion without any factual back up, generally derived from the NHL propoganda.

By the way, Beliveau has not been a player for a long time. He is management.

Once and for all, Trevor Linden is the President of the Union, it is his job to speak the feelings of the whole union, not his own. The players have given him a mandate and it is his job to fulfill it.

What blows me away, I can see where at least a portion of the millions the players make goes. I have yet to see a penny that John McCaw makes off this team go into my community.
Uh, do you actually think when you read? I mean really. You accuse others of generalizing and then do the same thing yourself. You tell others the NHL is just propaganda, but swallow everything the NHLPA puts out.

The whole point I was making about posters saying players were greedy, was to point out it was for the most part JUST OPINION, and should be only taken in that way!!!! You are intentionally being obstinate, arguing over disagreements you are making up.

What's with this holier than thou crap "Once and for all" ? You seem to suggest that I don't understand who Linden is or what his position calls for him to do. I pointed out his volunteer efforts don't make him a smart person. How you can read that and them write the above is a mystery.

I never said some owners weren't charged or found guilty for criminal behaviour, I said you generalized by tarring them and any other player that comes out against the NHLPA as puppets. And you do this all the time... all the while complaining about how people who disagree with you generalize.

For someone who talks about educating themselves being a priority, you seem to make little effort at all to understand what most of the posters here are saying.

quat is offline  
Old
11-10-2004, 07:37 PM
  #18
Jag68Sid87
Registered User
 
Jag68Sid87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 28,054
vCash: 500
There's a LOT of gray area in most of the issues surrounding the lockout, so to speak in absolutes is probably going to get you into trouble, regardless of position. It IS possible for one person to believe that:

- Bettman's salary-cap idea is what's best for the NHL, long-term.

- The owners are in large part responsible for the current economic climate.

- Bill Wirtz and Jeremy Jacobs are BAD for the league.

- Mike Ilitch would stop at nothing in his quest for the Cup, which is great for Red Wings fans--not so good for everybody else.

- Chris Chelios is an idiot.

- Jean Beliveau isn't entirely right, in the sense that not EVERYBODY was overpaid in the last 10 years. However, logical people get the point he's trying to make.

- The NHLPA has good reason not to trust SOME NHL owners, but have no reason at all not to trust others.

- Gary Bettman has actually done some good for the NHL.

- A 2005 draft eligible could challenge the draft system and win, and it could get ugly.


Some people could believe all those things, because the labor stoppage is NOT a black and white issue.

BTW, I believe in all of the above.

Jag68Sid87 is offline  
Old
11-10-2004, 07:55 PM
  #19
me2
Seahawks 43
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Broncos 8
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 17,974
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanlady
What blows me away, I can see where at least a portion of the millions the players make goes. I have yet to see a penny that John McCaw makes off this team go into my community.
Who paying the players' salaries while they are doing this community work? McCaw. McCaw could have the players sign autographs and flog them off on the internet or conduct fee based training sessions to make more money for himself. Instead he has the players do charity work that don't earn him a cent. Its costing him money.

me2 is offline  
Old
11-10-2004, 08:07 PM
  #20
I in the Eye
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Country:
Posts: 4,176
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Vlady27
There's a LOT of gray area in most of the issues surrounding the lockout, so to speak in absolutes is probably going to get you into trouble, regardless of position. It IS possible for one person to believe that:

- Bettman's salary-cap idea is what's best for the NHL, long-term.

- The owners are in large part responsible for the current economic climate.

- Bill Wirtz and Jeremy Jacobs are BAD for the league.

- Mike Ilitch would stop at nothing in his quest for the Cup, which is great for Red Wings fans--not so good for everybody else.

- Chris Chelios is an idiot.

- Jean Beliveau isn't entirely right, in the sense that not EVERYBODY was overpaid in the last 10 years. However, logical people get the point he's trying to make.

- The NHLPA has good reason not to trust SOME NHL owners, but have no reason at all not to trust others.

- Gary Bettman has actually done some good for the NHL.

- A 2005 draft eligible could challenge the draft system and win, and it could get ugly.


Some people could believe all those things, because the labor stoppage is NOT a black and white issue.

BTW, I believe in all of the above.
I'll add to the list that it's possible for a person to be an owner supporter, while not being anti-player... This isn't black & white, good vs. bad, right vs. wrong, IMO...

And consequently, there is no silver bullet solution here... It's got to be a compromise on both sides, to reach a solution that is reasonable (not preferred) to both parties... The absolute fairest deal will be one that both the owners and the players equally hate... and in the process, NHL hockey will survive - and perhaps even thrive...

I in the Eye is offline  
Old
11-11-2004, 12:36 AM
  #21
me2
Seahawks 43
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Broncos 8
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 17,974
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by I in the Eye
I'll add to the list that it's possible for a person to be an owner supporter, while not being anti-player... This isn't black & white, good vs. bad, right vs. wrong, IMO...

And consequently, there is no silver bullet solution here... It's got to be a compromise on both sides, to reach a solution that is reasonable (not preferred) to both parties... The absolute fairest deal will be one that both the owners and the players equally hate... and in the process, NHL hockey will survive - and perhaps even thrive...
Indeed.

me2 is offline  
Old
11-11-2004, 08:55 AM
  #22
Blindside9711
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Misplaced SOB
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,262
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Blindside9711
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLC
Ok everyone, Lets invite all the NHL players to the Yankee stadium infield where all the Salerie money has been piled up, right in the middle of the playing field and lets see just who gets how much. I vote for a winner take all system. Everyone fights for every last dime until only one player is left standing and he gets it all. That's right pay one player everything. 1.2 Billion per year to be all players on the ice at the same time. Humm Wait ! he might have to hire some support players because he can't do it all. So now he has to negotiate with all these greedy support players untill not only has he spent all the 1.2 Billion but now he has to give up some of his own money to the tune of 200 million per year. He would be the only man ever to declair bankruptcy with an income of 1.2 Billion.
This post doesn't even warrant a dignified response, RLC should be ashamed of himself for spouting off such irrelevant, incoherent drivel.
"We are all stupider for having read this. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul."

Blindside9711 is offline  
Old
11-14-2004, 12:39 PM
  #23
33teddy33
Registered User
 
33teddy33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 116
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to 33teddy33 Send a message via AIM to 33teddy33 Send a message via Yahoo to 33teddy33
To each his own.

But, funny that the NHLPA thinks the owners should suck it up. These same "superstars" are playing right now for a tiny percentage of what they are used to overseas in the "NHLeast". If it's not about money for them, why don't they prove it and let there be a salary cap or something to the sort?? If they're all such sportsman why dont they step-up and do something for the greater good of the sport.

Whatever.
Glad I live near and AHL team now. At least they want to play. Fugg it!

33teddy33 is offline  
Old
11-14-2004, 10:29 PM
  #24
CarlRacki
Registered User
 
CarlRacki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by me2
there is no reason a a person can't be greedy for money and generous with their time.
Exactly. We're dealing with apples and oranges here. There's no doubt many players are generous with both their time and money to help various causes. Kudos to them. Some would argue (correctly, I believe) that this is a responsibility that comes with great wealth, social standing and fame affored to them as professional athletes, but that's besides the point. Also, let's be honest, the average professional athlete works about half the time as the average 40 to 50-hour a week person.
The greed label applies not to their lives as a whole, and certainly not their charitable work, but rather their approach to the CBA situation and the state of the league. Fairly or not, many fans believe the players are putting their salary expectations ahead of the overall health of the NHL and the sport as a whole. Bottom line: whatever happens with the CBA, many these guys will make more in one year of playing a game than most people earn in 10 years working 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year. Most don't begrduge the players the fruits of their hard work and natural gifts, but don't like the fact many players don't seem to appreciate their good fortune and are willing to kill/severely injure a sport that for many is a passion over whether they will earn $10 million or $8 million a year.

CarlRacki is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:51 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.