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Would Thornton and/or Marleau waive there NMC?

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Old
03-11-2012, 02:44 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
That's because didn't need a culture change San Jose does. If they want to ignore that they can. Missing the playoffs with that roster is an embarrassment. At no point did I suggest they are in the exact same situation as Ottawa. 2 teams are never in the exact same situation. They're retool could be a similar lengh of time if they play their cards right. How many years can you spend trying to build around Thornton, Marleau, Boyle? It's been to long at some point you have to accept its just never going to work. It's not about how good these players are, it's about the culture in the locker room. That's what needs changing.
They didn't need a "culture change" like San Jose does? How on earth can you assume that? How on earth can you know that? If you've watched a game, you'll see that Thornton and Marleau are the ONLY ones doing much of anything (with maybe Vlasic and Burns). Half of our team is playing injured or a rookie call-up or a regular scratch with irregular playing time... I agree that this team is too talented to be losing so much, but Marleau and Thornton are probably the only guys who aren't a problem. Please, watch a game before you resort to stereotypes to form your opinions.

Boyle could go, though.

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03-11-2012, 02:44 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
You mean like going a PPG over this entire slump and being the only line thats dominating possession against the other teams? Because that's what Thornton and Marleau have been doing. They're trying to carry the whole team right now and it's looking like if they can't score 5-6 goals together a game the Sharks end up losing that game. Pretty unrealistic to expect 5-6 point nights every game from those two..
Yeah, I completely see your point. The other guys around them need to step it up as well. But what I am saying is, overall, something has to be done if they miss the playoffs. Year after year, the core isn't getting it done and this year they would "take a step back" should they miss the playoffs. Could they return to the playoffs or Cup contention in a year? Absolutely, if they keep their core together. But whats the outcome going to be? Will it be the same team that gets bumped from the playoffs every year? Or will they finally get it done. Because in reality, all players are playing to win a Stanley Cup. I would hate for the Sharks to have to part with Marleau or Thornton. But you gotta think it would cross Sharks managements mind in the off-season if they are going in the right direction. I don't mean to bash Marleau or Thornton, I think they are great players and have a lot of respect for them, but eventually something's got to change.

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03-11-2012, 02:44 PM
  #53
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Say what you want about Nabokov "dissapearing in the playoffs" but it was a HUGE mistake letting him go they should have re-signed him and let him retire or at least play a few more years as a Shark

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03-11-2012, 02:47 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by GunsnRosesPenguins91 View Post
Yeah, I completely see your point. The other guys around them need to step it up as well. But what I am saying is, overall, something has to be done if they miss the playoffs. Year after year, the core isn't getting it done and this year they would "take a step back" should they miss the playoffs. Could they return to the playoffs or Cup contention in a year? Absolutely, if they keep their core together. But whats the outcome going to be? Will it be the same team that gets bumped from the playoffs every year? Or will they finally get it done. Because in reality, all players are playing to win a Stanley Cup. I would hate for the Sharks to have to part with Marleau or Thornton. But you gotta think it would cross Sharks managements mind in the off-season if they are going in the right direction. I don't mean to bash Marleau or Thornton, I think they are great players and have a lot of respect for them, but eventually something's got to change.
You're using the "well it must be the only guys who have been there the whole time" logic, which is at best flawed. What if it's different problems? Coaching, team speed, health, chemistry? What if it's, as I believe, the result of too much constant turnover? I think this team needs to have a year where they don't change and just spend some time really learning to play with each other.

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03-11-2012, 02:47 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Thorntonfan97 View Post
Say what you want about Nabokov "dissapearing in the playoffs" but it was a HUGE mistake letting him go they should have re-signed him and let him retire or at least play a few more years as a Shark
Maybe they can sign him in the off-season? Would be a nice home coming and he would have never looked better in a Sharks jersey. Haha.

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03-11-2012, 02:51 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
Because he sucks.



Well fine all of them are off the books in 2014. We'll keep trying and then if it's not working out by then boom we can start over with a boatload of capspace.
So then your relying on free agent signings when you have the 30th ranked prospect pool? That's a quick way to destroy a franchise.

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03-11-2012, 02:55 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
You're using the "well it must be the only guys who have been there the whole time" logic, which is at best flawed. What if it's different problems? Coaching, team speed, health, chemistry? What if it's, as I believe, the result of too much constant turnover? I think this team needs to have a year where they don't change and just spend some time really learning to play with each other.
Yeah, you make some good points too. I have a hard time disagreeing with your opinions. Could be either. But I'm trying to figure out what the problem is just as much as you. I think injuries this season are also playing a part. But what I don't wanna say is its the guys who have been there the longest faults. The way I am looking at it is most of those guys are the core, and they have come close, but haven't closed. Regardless who is around them. But as you suggest, maybe they shouldn't mess with the roster much in the off-season. Add a small piece here or there. But you know people would ridicule them if they do that and miss the the playoffs.

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03-11-2012, 03:01 PM
  #58
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Basically the franchise has two options

Option 1 what most people here seem to want to do. Continue to build around Thornton, Marleau, Boyle keep trading good young players like Setagucci at the expense of attempting to balance the team. Hope to God that works before Thornton, Marleau's contracts are nearly up and their value is diminished. Continue to have the worst prospect pool in the NHL so when that happens there's little to no help coming.

Or

Ask Thornton and Marleau to provide a list of 10 teams. Move the them and Boyle for a wealth of young prospects/picks/promising young roster players in all positions. Re-stock the prospect pool while handing the team to a new young core of Pavelski, Couture, Burns, Vlassic. Spend 1-3 max out of the playoff race before your at least as competitive as you are now with a lot promise for the future.

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03-11-2012, 03:01 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
So then your relying on free agent signings when you have the 30th ranked prospect pool? That's a quick way to destroy a franchise.
Yeah because a rebuild is supposed to last 4 months right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Basically the franchise has two options

Option 1 what most people here seem to want to do. Continue to build around Thornton, Marleau, Boyle keep trading good young players like Setagucci at the expense of attempting to balance the team. Hope to God that works before Thornton, Marleau's contracts are nearly up and their value is diminished. Continue to have the worst prospect pool in the NHL so when that happens there's little to no help coming.

Or

Ask Thornton and Marleau to provide a list of 10 teams. Move the them and Boyle for a wealth of young prospects/picks/promising young roster players in all positions. Re-stock the prospect pool while handing the team to a new young core of Pavelski, Couture, Burns, Vlassic. Spend 1-3 max out of the playoff race before your at least as competitive as you are now with a lot promise for the future.
Oh man who knew it was so cut and dry eh? How about trade Clowe, Murray, Boyle, Niemi, etc for prospects, picks and young roster players while also keeping Thornton and Marleau? Guys like Couture have been able to develop all nicely because of guys like Thornton and Marleau who prevent them from getting thrown to the wolves.

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03-11-2012, 03:22 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
Yeah because a rebuild is supposed to last 4 months right?



Oh man who knew it was so cut and dry eh? How about trade Clowe, Murray, Boyle, Niemi, etc for prospects, picks and young roster players while also keeping Thornton and Marleau? Guys like Couture have been able to develop all nicely because of guys like Thornton and Marleau who prevent them from getting thrown to the wolves.
I get that but how many years do one or both of Thornton or Marleau have to not show up in the post season before you accept that you can't win with them? You might not even make playoffs this year to find out. If you go about the retool the way your suggesting you still get worse short term only get way less back and put yourself in a bad spot when their contracts come off the books. Thornton and Marleau have enough value plus you have enough good young players on the team you guys could even pull a Philly and end up a better team next year because of it.

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03-11-2012, 03:23 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Basically the franchise has two options

Option 1 what most people here seem to want to do. Continue to build around Thornton, Marleau, Boyle keep trading good young players like Setagucci at the expense of attempting to balance the team. Hope to God that works before Thornton, Marleau's contracts are nearly up and their value is diminished. Continue to have the worst prospect pool in the NHL so when that happens there's little to no help coming.

Or

Ask Thornton and Marleau to provide a list of 10 teams. Move the them and Boyle for a wealth of young prospects/picks/promising young roster players in all positions. Re-stock the prospect pool while handing the team to a new young core of Pavelski, Couture, Burns, Vlassic. Spend 1-3 max out of the playoff race before your at least as competitive as you are now with a lot promise for the future.
The Sharks have a need for speed. No way do they trade Marleau... Plus the guy probably could play quality top six minutes up into his forties if he wanted to. Sorry man there is no way any team would drop the equivalent of Thornton Marleau and Boyle in one year.

All of your arguments including continuing to build around Thornton and Marleau could apply to Ottawa with Spezza and Alfredson

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03-11-2012, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
I get that but how many years do one or both of Thornton or Marleau have to not show up in the post season before you accept that you can't win with them? You might not even make playoffs this year to find out. If you go about the retool the way your suggesting you still get worse short term only get way less back and put yourself in a bad spot when their contracts come off the books. Thornton and Marleau have enough value plus you have enough good young players on the team you guys could even pull a Philly and end up a better team next year because of it.
Annnnnd here we see the true colors. You think that Thornton and Marleau haven't been showing up in the playoffs. Well, sorry to burst your bubble, but Thornton was leading the playoffs in scoring before the Sharks were eliminated, and Marleau has scored at over a goal per game pace in the past two WCF. They are hardly the problem in the post season.

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03-11-2012, 03:28 PM
  #63
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Nope. They both want to be in a place where accountability means absolutely nothing like California/San Jose.

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03-11-2012, 03:31 PM
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It would be very good but it wont happen because the Sharks dont want MacArthur, Kadri and a 2nd
That would not be our offer.....




/tinkers




...what about MacArthur, Kadri, and a 1st

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03-11-2012, 03:32 PM
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Delete.


Last edited by TheJuxtaposer: 03-11-2012 at 03:33 PM. Reason: not the place.
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03-11-2012, 03:41 PM
  #66
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Annnnnd here we see the true colors. You think that Thornton and Marleau haven't been showing up in the playoffs. Well, sorry to burst your bubble, but Thornton was leading the playoffs in scoring before the Sharks were eliminated, and Marleau has scored at over a goal per game pace in the past two WCF. They are hardly the problem in the post season.
Your sounding exactly like Caps fans saying Ovechkin isn't their problem in the post season or Nucks fans with the Sedins. Oh look at the stat sheet they can't be the problem. Great leaders elevate their games to a GREATER level than they perform at during the regular season. I've seen glimpses of this from Joe only in the last couple of years but have never seen a glimpse of emotion from Marleau. Racking up points in a losing cause does not = performing in the playoffs.

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03-11-2012, 03:45 PM
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Your sounding exactly like Caps fans saying Ovechkin isn't their problem in the post season or Nucks fans with the Sedins. Oh look at the stat sheet they can't be the problem. Great leaders elevate their games to a GREATER level than they perform at during the regular season. I've seen glimpses of this from Joe only in the last couple of years but have never seen a glimpse of emotion from Marleau. Racking up points in a losing cause does not = performing in the playoffs.
Ever consider that maybe some of the background players are the problem? Ovechkin is hardly the problem for Washington, and I won't speak on the Sedins since I'm biased. Yeah, the team loses so it must be the stars' fault, eh? Did you see Thornton in the Wings series? He spoon-fed Setoguchi a hattrick, and the Sharks won basically because Thornton was awesome. And I think scoring a ****ing GOAL PER GAME IN TWO STRAIGHT WCF is playing at a "greater" level than during the regular season, but that's just me.

And now you're on Marleau for "not showing emotion". I really have nothing left to say now. Please, for both our goods, stop believing stereotypes when it's clear that you don't know much of anything about the Sharks. Good day.

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03-11-2012, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Your sounding exactly like Caps fans saying Ovechkin isn't their problem in the post season or Nucks fans with the Sedins. Oh look at the stat sheet they can't be the problem. Great leaders elevate their games to a GREATER level than they perform at during the regular season. I've seen glimpses of this from Joe only in the last couple of years but have never seen a glimpse of emotion from Marleau. Racking up points in a losing cause does not = performing in the playoffs.
Yeah for real. Ovechkin is totally the problem. That russian ****er should be scoring 8 goals a game in the playoffs! Those Sedins are a bunch of swedish scrubs too! They should have been scoring 4-5 points a game in the playoffs! Oh man and don't even get me started on Thornton and Marleau. You know those two canadians with no heart. I mean Joe only ****ed the mighty Red Wings over twice, led the playoffs in scoring and was still the most dangerous Shark in the WCF even with one shoulder/arm. While Marleau scoring goals is totally useless. I mean who cares if he's over a goal per game in the WCF. They lost. Totally his and Joe's fault.

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03-11-2012, 03:57 PM
  #69
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Patrick Marleau wanting to leave the cocoon? Don't think so.

Thornton loves it there because everything is cool and there is no pressure.

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03-11-2012, 04:08 PM
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Patrick Marleau wanting to leave the cocoon? Don't think so.

Thornton loves it there because everything is cool and there is no pressure.
Nighthock, is that you?

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03-11-2012, 04:12 PM
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Ever consider that maybe some of the background players are the problem? Ovechkin is hardly the problem for Washington, and I won't speak on the Sedins since I'm biased. Yeah, the team loses so it must be the stars' fault, eh? Did you see Thornton in the Wings series? He spoon-fed Setoguchi a hattrick, and the Sharks won basically because Thornton was awesome. And I think scoring a ****ing GOAL PER GAME IN TWO STRAIGHT WCF is playing at a "greater" level than during the regular season, but that's just me.

And now you're on Marleau for "not showing emotion". I really have nothing left to say now. Please, for both our goods, stop believing stereotypes when it's clear that you don't know much of anything about the Sharks. Good day.
Iv watched every single San Jose Sharks post season game since 2006 and catch probably 6-8 regular season games a year. Even if you believe Thornton and Marleau have done everything they can for you guys to win. You still haven't despite being a dominant regular season team for 6 years and they aren't getting any younger or better. It's a tipping point for the franchise. Either continue to try and force something that's never worked in 6 years or make some blockbusters and start a new era. Even if you disagree with me about Marleau and Thorntons playoff performances it doesn't change my original point.

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03-11-2012, 04:18 PM
  #72
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They're still potentially contenders... I don't think they'd think about it unless they were willing to call it quits in a year or two.

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03-11-2012, 04:28 PM
  #73
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the only way i trade jumbo is if im 100% sure i could get getzlaf, which is very unlikely

marleaus wife wouldnt let him waive his nmc...

marleau and thornton are NOT the problem. they are literally 2 of the few who are producing right now. thornton puts up 3 assists in the dallas game and they still lose. its fully on the depth forwards+defence+goaltending

trade vlasic and pavelski and boyle. get similar but more physical players for vlasic and boyle, and get a quicker pavelski.

add whatever the hell you need to to accomplish this. this team couldnt hit a fly.

and for the love of god, can we trade havlat for a piece of glass, the value is the same, but the glass has less cap hit.

get bigger. stronger. faster. and then we'll win.

most of this is just mindless ranting.

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03-11-2012, 04:32 PM
  #74
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Iv watched every single San Jose Sharks post season game since 2006 and catch probably 6-8 regular season games a year. Even if you believe Thornton and Marleau have done everything they can for you guys to win. You still haven't despite being a dominant regular season team for 6 years and they aren't getting any younger or better. It's a tipping point for the franchise. Either continue to try and force something that's never worked in 6 years or make some blockbusters and start a new era. Even if you disagree with me about Marleau and Thorntons playoff performances it doesn't change my original point.
Can you honestly tell me that you think the Sharks were better than the Canucks last season or the Blackhawks the season before? Because if you honestly think that the Sharks should have beaten either of those teams, then we can talk. But the Sharks simply lost to better, healthier teams the past two seasons, and that's that.

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Originally Posted by CloweForbidzYou View Post
the only way i trade jumbo is if im 100% sure i could get getzlaf, which is very unlikely

marleaus wife wouldnt let him waive his nmc...

marleau and thornton are NOT the problem. they are literally 2 of the few who are producing right now. thornton puts up 3 assists in the dallas game and they still lose. its fully on the depth forwards+defence+goaltending

trade vlasic and pavelski and boyle. get similar but more physical players for vlasic and boyle, and get a quicker pavelski.

add whatever the hell you need to to accomplish this. this team couldnt hit a fly.

and for the love of god, can we trade havlat for a piece of glass, the value is the same, but the glass has less cap hit.

get bigger. stronger. faster. and then we'll win.

most of this is just mindless ranting.
Yeah... Trade Vlasic and Pavelski, that makes sense...There isn't a player who's a more physical Vlasic in the league, and there isn't a player that's a faster Pavelski.

Hits are grossly overrated.

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03-11-2012, 04:41 PM
  #75
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Can you honestly tell me that you think the Sharks were better than the Canucks last season or the Blackhawks the season before? Because if you honestly think that the Sharks should have beaten either of those teams, then we can talk. But the Sharks simply lost to better, healthier teams the past two seasons, and that's that.



Yeah... Trade Vlasic and Pavelski, that makes sense...There isn't a player who's a more physical Vlasic in the league, and there isn't a player that's a faster Pavelski.

Hits are grossly overrated.
Honestly yes I think they could have beaten Van. Vancouver really isn't that good they fold mentally kind of like the Sharks, Chi they didnt stand a chance but regardless they sure could have beaten Edmonton, Dallas and Anaheim. You can keep saying it's the support players that are the problem but the support players have constantly changed since 06 with the same result. It's the leadership and the culture and Marleau and Thornton are a big part of that.

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