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Old
03-11-2012, 06:42 PM
  #101
rynryn
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Originally Posted by Avder View Post
The players don't have to be on board for it. They're already jilted, burned out, playing outside of their roles, and probably fed up. Toss in a gutted locker room courtesy of the Schultz trade, and you have a team that will tank pretty much naturally.

Plus the continued serving of Forward Omelets will keep players confused and with no chemistry.
if players even think management is setting them up to fail purposefully they are not going to think very highly of the organization. "Tanking" implies purpose. A generally dejected and/or pissed off roster underperforming because they are in a poor mental state isn't tanking. free agents or Granlunds probably aren't going to enter into contracts with the Wild if they think the org's response to a bad season it to just lose more.

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03-11-2012, 06:43 PM
  #102
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Take a look at ticketmaster, there's thousands of tickets remaining for each game.

As was mentioned (and conveniently ignored) the cost to the players is even greater. A guy like Veilleux stands to lose his entire income. Kassian needs a contract this offseason, and his current play versus tank mode could easily be a million dollars on a 3 year contract. Palmieri could stand to lose even more. Guys like Ortmeyer, Foster, Peters, and Stoner likewise need contracts, and the play down the stretch is likely to be the biggest determination of what they get.

Put simply, begging for a tank is a selfish, ignorant thing to do. It's a "high-school" idea. One that has one tiny glimmer of merit that some self-absorbed teenager has decreed is the be all end all of life, the universe, and everything.
The only thing I care about is winning. These people will still find contracts, if they don't get an extra few hundred thousand a year, well you know maybe they shouldn't have played like ****. You're feeling sorry for millionaires or people that make six figures a year. Really? I'm looking at this from a GM point of view. If my year sucks I want a good draft pick. Ask Murray when his team starting winning at the end of year, we could've had Huberdeau, but we ended up with Zibby. Still a good pick, but what if we had the third overall? Hell there was even an article on Murray lamenting he had a lower pick I think.

This is the best league in the world, if they don't get a contract then their play reflected it, then they don't deserve one.

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03-11-2012, 06:46 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by ShutDownDefense View Post
The only thing I care about is winning. These people will still find contracts, if they don't get an extra few hundred thousand a year, well you know maybe they shouldn't have played like ****. You're feeling sorry for millionaires or people that make six figures a year. Really? I'm looking at this from a GM point of view. If my year sucks I want a good draft pick. Ask Murray when his team starting winning at the end of year, we could've had Huberdeau, but we ended up with Zibby. Still a good pick, but what if we had the third overall?
The problem is:

NO ONE (involved) CARES WHAT YOU THINK

I'm not sure what makes this a difficult concept for so many people, but apparently it's something. The players care about the players. The ownership cares about its own pockets. The management cares about keeping the ownership happy. At no point does "ShutDownDefense's opinion about the direction of the franchise" factor into the equation.

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03-11-2012, 06:48 PM
  #104
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watching the badger women's hockey game yesterday made me realize how much it helps to maintain offense if you CARRY the puck in the zone....
I really hope the Wild realize this one of these years. So sick of dump and do nothing.

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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Take a look at ticketmaster, there's thousands of tickets remaining for each game.

As was mentioned (and conveniently ignored) the cost to the players is even greater. A guy like Veilleux stands to lose his entire income. Kassian needs a contract this offseason, and his current play versus tank mode could easily be a million dollars on a 3 year contract. Palmieri could stand to lose even more. Guys like Ortmeyer, Foster, Peters, and Stoner likewise need contracts, and the play down the stretch is likely to be the biggest determination of what they get.

Put simply, begging for a tank is a selfish, ignorant thing to do. It's a "high-school" idea. One that has one tiny glimmer of merit that some self-absorbed teenager has decreed is the be all end all of life, the universe, and everything.
There's no such thing as a draft in high school hockey, so its not really a fair comparison to call it a "high school" idea.

And all of those players can keep playing hard. In fact I want them to. They make the games entertaining with their antics.

Kassian has already shown his value to the team. Hell he has shown glimmers of a remote possibility that he may evolve into more of a player than just a goon. Veilleux brings energy night after night. I would love to see him given a contract for next year just as an example to next years Wild team that if you come with energy and passion night after night you WILL be rewarded for it.

I'm not calling for anything remotely close to throwing games. All I'm saying is if the team can continue to do what it has been doing, and that is fail to score despite enormous effort, we have a chance to get a real difference maker at this years draft.

Selfish? You god damned right it is. I'm sick of seeing the Wild always be just good enough to miss out on the players with true elite potential but never being good enough to make the playoffs. I think it's time we shoot for one extreme or the other, and at this point in the year, when we've pissed away all our chances to make the playoffs, the only thing left for this injury gutted, demoralized team is the promise of a draft pick and a better future.

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03-11-2012, 06:48 PM
  #105
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This is the best league in the world, if they don't get a contract then their play reflected it, then they don't deserve one.
So, the players should deliberately do poorly because if they get a bad contract it's because they deserved it?

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03-11-2012, 06:48 PM
  #106
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03-11-2012, 06:49 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
The problem is:

NO ONE (involved) CARES WHAT YOU THINK

I'm not sure what makes this a difficult concept for so many people, but apparently it's something. The players care about the players. The ownership cares about its own pockets. The management cares about keeping the ownership happy. At no point does "ShutDownDefense's opinion about the direction of the franchise" factor into the equation.
Um, duh. That's why we have hockey forums. I'm pretty sure the people who are professionals in the business don't use us as consultants otherwise I'd be a paid advisor on the Wild or Sens. It's just a bunch of amateur armchair hockey GM's discussing the way the team should be run, but not actually running it.

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03-11-2012, 06:50 PM
  #108
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all star!

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03-11-2012, 06:51 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
The problem is:

NO ONE (involved) CARES WHAT YOU THINK

I'm not sure what makes this a difficult concept for so many people, but apparently it's something. The players care about the players. The ownership cares about its own pockets. The management cares about keeping the ownership happy. At no point does "ShutDownDefense's opinion about the direction of the franchise" factor into the equation.
Dude chill, no one here is crazy enough to think Wild management cares what any of us think.

Were pissed off and jaded, not delusional.

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03-11-2012, 06:51 PM
  #110
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There's no such thing as a draft in high school hockey, so its not really a fair comparison to call it a "high school" idea.
You've really missed what a "high-school idea" is. The original comment was that trying to win this year was "grade-school." That's an implication that in grade-school, people are foolishly optimistic and gullible. Iterating on that comment, deliberately losing is "high-school" because in high school, people generally learn one tiny facet of a concept and run with it as the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Only a high-schooler would be worldly enough to accept the idea of a tank as well as foolish enough to think it's a great idea with no or limited consequences.

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03-11-2012, 06:52 PM
  #111
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So, the players should deliberately do poorly because if they get a bad contract it's because they deserved it?


No we're tanking because we suck, we're tanking because the talent on this team is absolutely horrible to fill in the places of the true top guys who are injured. People get contracts based off of performance, I'm not going to give a guy $500k contract based on how I feel sorry for him. They get paid based on performance. If a guy gets a few hundred thousand lower, it's his fault because of his performance, and probably the team he was surrounded with too.

Look at Ian White with Carolina, now look at Ian White with Detroit. Complete 180.

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03-11-2012, 06:53 PM
  #112
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I don't think tanking necessarily means losing on purpose

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03-11-2012, 06:53 PM
  #113
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I just made a fight thread.

Feel free to post there.

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03-11-2012, 06:53 PM
  #114
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Dude chill, no one here is crazy enough to think Wild management cares what any of us think.

Were pissed off and jaded, not delusional.
Might want to direct that towards people who are actually fired up.

Again, follow the thread if you're going to comment. SDD's argument was "I want this, therefore the team should do this." The response was "no one cares what you want," which points out the argument has no merit.

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03-11-2012, 06:55 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by ShutDownDefense View Post


No we're tanking because we suck, we're tanking because the talent on this team is absolutely horrible to fill in the places of the true top guys who are injured. People get contracts based off of performance, I'm not going to give a guy $500k contract based on how I feel sorry for him. They get paid based on performance. If a guy gets a few hundred thousand lower, it's his fault because of his performance, and probably the team he was surrounded with too.

Look at Ian White with Carolina, now look at Ian White with Detroit. Complete 180.
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Originally Posted by ShutDownDefense View Post
Oh god, can we stop with the ****ing grade school finish strong ****.

All it's going to do is destroy our draft position. It's fifteen games

The better our draft choice, the better chances we get a top player that could finally put us over the top in 4-5 years. How about we take one for the team, suck it up, and then get our pride next year.
Nope.

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03-11-2012, 06:58 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Might want to direct that towards people who are actually fired up.

Again, follow the thread if you're going to comment. SDD's argument was "I want this, therefore the team should do this." The response was "no one cares what you want," which points out the argument has no merit.
That's why it's a discussion. Two opposite sides of how the team should be run, but the true professionals don't give a **** about us because they know better, way way better. That's why they do the job and not us. The only difference is that we're not being huge *** holes by shoving our opinions down their throat directly to them. If you don't care, then just ignore my posts.

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03-11-2012, 06:58 PM
  #117
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Might want to direct that towards people who are actually fired up.

Again, follow the thread if you're going to comment. SDD's argument was "I want this, therefore the team should do this." The response was "no one cares what you want," which points out the argument has no merit.
I'm sorry but I really feel like accusing me of not following the thread is completely uncalled for.

And I don't feel the need to direct anything at anyone. Anyone here who is fired up is simply mad at where we've been since december. I highly doubt anyone in this forum is under some impression that GMCF or Mike Yeo are going to actually look here for advice on how to do things.

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03-11-2012, 06:59 PM
  #118
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Nope.
Care to tell us why we're losing? My opinion is just because we suck, the team doesn't care, and injuries killed us.

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03-11-2012, 07:01 PM
  #119
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Game on.

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03-11-2012, 07:01 PM
  #120
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Yeah we should get back to the game. No amount of cussing and complaining on a message board will make it better.

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03-11-2012, 07:02 PM
  #121
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Care to tell us why we're losing? My opinion is just because we suck, the team doesn't care, and injuries killed us.
We are losing because they have scored more goals than us

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03-11-2012, 07:03 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by ShutDownDefense View Post
Care to tell us why we're losing? My opinion is just because we suck, the team doesn't care, and injuries killed us.
Your statement, which started the discussion, was that Yeo should not attempt to win games down the stretch (or as it was literally stated "finish strong"). Not attempting to win games is equivalent to intentionally losing them. Your opinion was not that we will lose because we suck, have a bad attitude, and have been hurt. Your opinion which you explicitly stated is we should deliberately lose, and that suggesting we could give a strong effort down the stretch is somehow heinous and childish.

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03-11-2012, 07:03 PM
  #123
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great takeaway from ortmeyer. great shift.

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03-11-2012, 07:03 PM
  #124
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We are losing because they have scored more goals than us
Damn you and your sound logic.

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03-11-2012, 07:04 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Your statement, which started the discussion, was that Yeo should not attempt to win games down the stretch (or as it was literally stated "finish strong"). Not attempting to win games is equivalent to intentionally losing them. Your opinion was not that we will lose because we suck, have a bad attitude, and have been hurt. Your opinion which you explicitly stated is we should deliberately lose, and that suggesting we could give a strong effort down the stretch is somehow heinous and childish.
yeah that's what i got out of it.

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