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Missing persons report: John Tavares

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Old
02-10-2010, 09:18 AM
  #1
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Missing persons report: John Tavares

I'm not sure what's going on, but he has 6 goals and 3 assists and is a -9 over the last 30+ games. That is terrible.

He doesn't shoot when he has the chance, and he can't seem to buy a point right now.

Nobody can deny his talent level, as the kid is a great talent..

But maybe he just needs a break. I know the Olympic Break is coming up.. and I really hope this does the trick. At this point, his point totals are going to be far less than any of us predicted.. and on most nights, he just doesn't look like he can compete with the guys out there.

Out of shape? Too rigid of a schedule? What is contributing to John Tavares' invisible act?

I'm starting to think a stint in the AHL might be what the doctor ordered. He needs his confidence back, and he needs it fast.

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02-10-2010, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatientlyWaiting View Post
I'm not sure what's going on, but he has 6 goals and 3 assists and is a -9 over the last 30+ games. That is terrible.

He doesn't shoot when he has the chance, and he can't seem to buy a point right now.

Nobody can deny his talent level, as the kid is a great talent..

But maybe he just needs a break. I know the Olympic Break is coming up.. and I really hope this does the trick. At this point, his point totals are going to be far less than any of us predicted.. and on most nights, he just doesn't look like he can compete with the guys out there.

Out of shape? Too rigid of a schedule? What is contributing to John Tavares' invisible act?

I'm starting to think a stint in the AHL might be what the doctor ordered. He needs his confidence back, and he needs it fast.
In some ways I am extremely encouraged that Tavares seems to be competing harder than he was in the first quarter of the year even though the numbers don't show it. I don't think he has disappeared - in fact I think he has been more noticeable in a positive way - he is just not bagging anything right now.

Clearly, he has been squeezing the stick a little too much but I think long term, the adversity he is facing will only add to his character and overall play. He has had some big improvement in my eyes from the beginning of the season - especially his work along the boards and behind the net. He is no longer just lurking south of the faceoff circle waiting for the puck to come to him.

The goals and points will come. It also seems he has not had many breaks - how many posts has he hit or shots that just missed by a short and curly. I would not even remotely consider sending him to the AHL. I'd sit him first but I think this is the type of kid that you need to keep playing and let him work through it.

I think having some struggles in his rookie year are absolutely expected. Most 19 year olds still are built closer to a 16 year old rather than a 22 year old and I think the physical aspect has been the biggest hurdle he has had to face. By next season I would expect he will be adding 10 lbs or so of muscle and will only get stronger.

I would also surmise that he may have underestimated how hard he has to work to be able to sustain results over a 90-100 game schedule (including pre-season and "scrimmages"). That will all improve!

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02-10-2010, 09:47 AM
  #3
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02-10-2010, 09:47 AM
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I expected about 40-50 pts so as much as I am worried about this current streak I think the kid will be fine. He is 19 and has played much better the last few games eve though the points aren't there.

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02-10-2010, 09:49 AM
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"Patiently" ?

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Old
02-10-2010, 09:50 AM
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Old
02-10-2010, 10:02 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by On Edge View Post
In some ways I am extremely encouraged that Tavares seems to be competing harder than he was in the first quarter of the year even though the numbers don't show it. I don't think he has disappeared - in fact I think he has been more noticeable in a positive way - he is just not bagging anything right now.

Clearly, he has been squeezing the stick a little too much but I think long term, the adversity he is facing will only add to his character and overall play. He has had some big improvement in my eyes from the beginning of the season - especially his work along the boards and behind the net. He is no longer just lurking south of the faceoff circle waiting for the puck to come to him.

The goals and points will come. It also seems he has not had many breaks - how many posts has he hit or shots that just missed by a short and curly. I would not even remotely consider sending him to the AHL. I'd sit him first but I think this is the type of kid that you need to keep playing and let him work through it.

I think having some struggles in his rookie year are absolutely expected. Most 19 year olds still are built closer to a 16 year old rather than a 22 year old and I think the physical aspect has been the biggest hurdle he has had to face. By next season I would expect he will be adding 10 lbs or so of muscle and will only get stronger.

I would also surmise that he may have underestimated how hard he has to work to be able to sustain results over a 90-100 game schedule (including pre-season and "scrimmages"). That will all improve!
great post.

----
I just posted this in another thread - makes more sense here:

Tavares will be fine.

I don't want to compare Stamkos specifically because they are drastically different players but the situation and talent level are similar. Stamkos is seven months older than Tavares but Tavares has been better than Stamkos at every level before the NHL (albeit marginally). This includes the WJC where the competition level was the highest.

In the NHL though, the biggest possible adjustment from junior, speed and strength mean so much. Where Stamkos has got blazing speed and in his second year is much stronger on his skates and on the puck, Tavares is NOT.

This is simply an adjustment time for Tavares and this needs to happen IN the NHL. A player CANNOT adjust to the size and speed in any other league, unfortunately.

Tavares shouldn't necessarily sit, but he shouldn't have the burden of #1 center at this age. Lafontaine scored 100 goals in junior before joining the cup Isles and he was nowhere near ready to play at that age - but he wasn't counted on until several years later. There are many other examples.

Even Duchene has drastically improved his game from his first dozen, When he used to try and deke through and fly past defenders, he's learned that he cannot do that in the NHL.

This just takes time. The goals he scored in junior will haunt him until he adjust to the NHL.

But he's got NHL hands and NHL hockey sense with the work ethic to boot. This is (and will be) the worst slump of his career IMO.

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02-10-2010, 10:12 AM
  #8
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And here's Crosby's view on Tavares and his own rookie year. Interesting read. Here are some excerpts:

Quote:
"He's got a great shot," Crosby said Tuesday. "He sees the ice really well. He's big. He's strong. [With] his work ethic, and seeing how much he cares, he's only going to get better."
Quote:
"I've always thought February is maybe your most grueling month. You're a little more tired in February, and have to kind of get over that hump before [the stretch drive and playoffs], and the play itself picks up, so you have to raise your game.

"When you're a little bit tired and you have to raise your game, it's not the easiest thing. It's pretty desperate hockey starting in February. Getting that Olympic break is good. You get a little time to re-energize and try to finish strong."
I also heard a Nazem Kadri interview after playing his first NHL game. He talked about how much faster the play is than pre-season and how much stronger the players are. Kadri has a pretty solid NHL debut (17+ minutes vs San Jose) as an emergency call-up where he showed flashes of skill but very outmatched physically and in the speed of play/decision-making (sound familiar)?

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02-10-2010, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
And here's Crosby's view on Tavares and his own rookie year. Interesting read. Here are some excerpts:





I also heard a Nazem Kadri interview after playing his first NHL game. He talked about how much faster the play is than pre-season and how much stronger the players are. Kadri has a pretty solid NHL debut (17+ minutes vs San Jose) as an emergency call-up where he showed flashes of skill but very outmatched physically and in the speed of play/decision-making (sound familiar)?
One thing that hasn't been mentioned much is the schedule. Not only is it hard for a 19 year old to physically compete, the compact schedule of an Olympic year is more grueling than he's ever seen. Couple that with the already difficult nature of physically competing against men as a teenager and it becomes quite clear why he's struggling. Besides, since when is 40-50 pts in your rookie season considered struggling? The last few games have been encouraging, people just need to understand that this isn't easy, and most prospects go through this. Unless of course you're Ovechkin or Crosby.

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Old
02-10-2010, 10:29 AM
  #10
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Patiently Waiting? You REALLY need to change your name. How is this far less than any of us predicted? I predicted him to have 20 goals and 20-25 assists. That seems about right.

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Old
02-10-2010, 10:33 AM
  #11
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I joke to myself and call him Non-Tavares on many occasions. I think it's plain and simple he's a bust.


In reality: I think it's just who he's playing with. He needs more veteran players around him. He's too young and has yet to really develop. I'm certain he should turn it around eventually. A drop down to Bridgeport may shoot to **** whatever confidence he has left in himself.

Maybe it's as simple as turning on NHL 10, using himself in be a pro mode and turn it on rookie.

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02-10-2010, 10:36 AM
  #12
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This schedule is a great thing for John. It's shows his flaws. Maybe with a normal schedule he struggles with scoring but his conditioning and endurance isn't brought to the fore front like it is today.

Simply this kid needs to remember he broke the OHL goal scoring record and Gretzky's record. This kid isn't a playmaker first and foremost he's a goal scorer. He needs 6-10 shots every game. He's got one of the best shots I've seen.

His summer needs to consistent of Gary Roberts, a different skating instructor and a NHL goalie to shoot on during icetimes.

Right now his problems are NHL defensemen have figured him out...he has no speed so he's easy to cover....the mindset of pass first...conditioning is horrid, and his strength is weak. I got ripped on for saying his time and space will be alot less then junior and right now he has no time and space. As Kadri stated everything is different at the NHL level...space, speed, small details, everything. Duchene and Stamkos have the ability to adjust because they have speed to get around unfortunatly John doesn't have the speed, endurance and conditioning to do that. I think he came in unprepared for the season and what it was going to be like.

It's not about who's he's playing. With he and Moulson were flying to start the year Moulson has cooled down but he's still scoring. There is enough quality players for him to play with. Duchene is playing with two rookies. Plenty of rookies come in and have nobody to play with but the adjust. As much as it's nice to have great players it's also on himself to make others better and take control of the situation himself. He's not a baby anymore he doesn't need to be bottle fed.

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Old
02-10-2010, 10:40 AM
  #13
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I don't think Tavares is eligible for the AHL.

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02-10-2010, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
I don't think Tavares is eligible for the AHL.
He's played 4 years of junior hockey so he's eligible.

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02-10-2010, 11:26 AM
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Wow...I love Isles fans. So many want to talk about how bad a GM Mike Milbury was, but those say fans seem to want to be like him.

Lets Trade Tavares. He sucks! Okposo...cant score, he sucks. Bailey...what a joke.

These kids have BARELY 80 games on NHL experience. They are kids. 19, 20, 21 years old. They need time to mature. As great as Ovie is for the Caps—he needed to mature his game, and the team around him had to mature.

Lets all just relax. These players have NEVER played in a full NHL season. the grind is trying and JT has hit a wall. He even looks beat. I think the Olympic break is going to do him some good. He can rest his body, and come back stronger for the last month of the season. The same for KO and Bailey. I think Moulsen and Schremp are in the same boat by the way. They are all players who are young, and have never played full NHL seasons. KO and Bailey both missed significant time last year. Moulsen and Schremp have never been up in the NHL for this long.

The only players that need to be moved are the vets. We are not going to make the playoffs this year unless these young players come back red hot from the olympics—and I would still look to move Sutton, Park, Biron/Roloson and perhaps a guy like Sim if I can get a 5th-6th rounder for him.

Bottom line—patience—something the OP does not have despite his name—is paying off. Look how much better Bailey and KO are this season compared to last. Now imagine that same progress for a player like JT....and how much better Bailey and KO will be again next year. Lets also not forget—players like MacDonald, Hillen, Kohn, Martin, Joensuu all could become steady regulars here next year.

We are in year 2 of a 5 year major overhaul. Next year we should really see a second major step. Anyone that does not see the vast improvement from this year to last is not watching the game.

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02-10-2010, 11:44 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JL17 View Post
He's played 4 years of junior hockey so he's eligible.
Gotcha. I wasn't sure if his rights were still held by his CHL team.

Regardless, I wouldn't think the AHL would be a great idea for Tavares. IMO, he needs teammates with some talent to help facilitate his offense.

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02-10-2010, 11:50 AM
  #17
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You should have drafted Matt Duchene

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02-10-2010, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatientlyWaiting View Post
I'm not sure what's going on, but he has 6 goals and 3 assists and is a -9 over the last 30+ games. That is terrible.

He doesn't shoot when he has the chance, and he can't seem to buy a point right now.

Nobody can deny his talent level, as the kid is a great talent..

But maybe he just needs a break. I know the Olympic Break is coming up.. and I really hope this does the trick. At this point, his point totals are going to be far less than any of us predicted.. and on most nights, he just doesn't look like he can compete with the guys out there.

Out of shape? Too rigid of a schedule? What is contributing to John Tavares' invisible act?

I'm starting to think a stint in the AHL might be what the doctor ordered. He needs his confidence back, and he needs it fast.
Lets see he is 19 years old. Guess what this might happen again next year too.

He is young..He is not use to the schedule of 82 games and the physical play.

My prediction for point totals was like 40 -50 points at most.

Tampa should of traded Stamkos last year man he sucked

HOW ABOUT THIS ONE ....STOP STARTING THESE THREADS ABOUT A ROOKIE WHO IS IN A DROUGHT.

Did you expect him to be use to an 82 game schedule? You only can prepare better when you have gone through it. Should he be on the first line...no.

Can't wait when he goes into a slump next year and I see the words Bust after his name by some of you .

Also, he has a lot of tools work with and learn as well on our team.

We have a lot of rookies/players with none or not much NHL experience:

Tavares
Bailey
Shremp
Macdonald
Kohn
Moulson
Okposo
Hillen
add in the call ups

Thats alot.
Ok

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Old
02-10-2010, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doakacola View Post
You should have drafted Matt Duchene
Matt Duchene is surrounded by a much more talented cast. Take note of the number of garbage goals he's scored of late as well as the number of primary v. secondary assists he's had and you'll better understand.


Moving back onto the topic at hand. I think beyond the fact that JT is likely banged up and simply hit the proverbial rookie wall, the issue is very much about his supporting cast.

We all knew JT wasn't a Crosby or Ovechkin (a player that can either: 1. single-handedly take over a game or 2. make those around him significantly better). JT is a player (e.g., Dany Heatly) that requires others to thrive.

Putting JT on a line with the offensively inept Blake Comeau ain't going to result in numbers at this stage of his career.

Throw JT out there with a Milan Hejduk, Chris Stewart, or Woltek Wolski and see the numbers that the kid produces. Bank the puck of the boards in your defensive zone and you've got the potential for an assist.

On the Islanders, you need the stars to align and perfection to even score a goal.


As others have mentioned, JT has been much better the last 10 games or so. He's comitted to the D zone, is back to making his patented short, in close passes (not his fault that Comeau can't convert -- look at his chances from last night alone), and has gotten better opportunities all around. He's also looked stronger on the puck.

The kid is fine..... everyone just got spoiled as he produced at a point per game clip early on in the year (addrenaline?). He will be fine.

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02-10-2010, 12:30 PM
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Here's a bigger concern than streaky scoring - he skates slow in Gordon's overspeed system of fast aggressive skating. Thus why he gets most of his goals in setup mode around the net via rebounds and digging and only has 1 skilled goal off the rush down the wing vs B's.

He's just learning and getting acclamated and the whiffs annoy me but in time he'll bury them as he gets more focused. His hockey sense and hands will save him when he gets used to an NHL schedule. He'll get stronger and not fall down as much and won't be as burnt out next season and beyond. He's even having trouble trapping and controlling pucks which is a sign of burn out.

Remember, he's currently asked to carry a team before his prime and we've seen how that destroyed so many ex-Isles in the past who went on to better things with other teams. Not saying he'll be like that but it's just too soon to tell how he'll truly be for his career in a condensed rookie year at age 19.

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02-10-2010, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
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Here's a bigger concern than streaky scoring - he skates slow in Gordon's overspeed system of fast aggressive skating. Thus why he gets most of his goals in setup mode around the net via rebounds and digging and only has 1 skilled goal off the rush down the wing vs B's.

He's just learning and getting acclamated and the whiffs annoy me but in time he'll bury them as he gets more focused. His hockey sense and hands will save him when he gets used to an NHL schedule. He'll get stronger and not fall down as much and won't be as burnt out next season and beyond. He's even having trouble trapping and controlling pucks which is a sign of burn out.

Remember, he's currently asked to carry a team before his prime and we've seen how that destroyed so many ex-Isles in the past who went on to better things with other teams. Not saying he'll be like that but it's just too soon to tell how he'll truly be for his career in a condensed rookie year at age 19.
With JT, the number one problem is confidence. When he scored the shootout goal, he skated right past me along the boards in 104, and had a look on his face like, holy ***** I can do this.

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02-10-2010, 01:00 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Marshall days View Post
Here's a bigger concern than streaky scoring - he skates slow in Gordon's overspeed system of fast aggressive skating. Thus why he gets most of his goals in setup mode around the net via rebounds and digging and only has 1 skilled goal off the rush down the wing vs B's.

He's just learning and getting acclamated and the whiffs annoy me but in time he'll bury them as he gets more focused. His hockey sense and hands will save him when he gets used to an NHL schedule. He'll get stronger and not fall down as much and won't be as burnt out next season and beyond. He's even having trouble trapping and controlling pucks which is a sign of burn out.

Remember, he's currently asked to carry a team before his prime and we've seen how that destroyed so many ex-Isles in the past who went on to better things with other teams. Not saying he'll be like that but it's just too soon to tell how he'll truly be for his career in a condensed rookie year at age 19.
Lack of speed and strength are the major issues I see when watching him play. Considering his character, and work ethic I have no doubts in my mind that he will improve both as he gets stronger and older. Jason Spezza, Eric Staal, and Ryan Getzlaf are just a few examples of players who struggles with their skating early in their career. All three are excellent skaters now. JT will be fine.

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02-10-2010, 01:13 PM
  #23
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WAAAAA John Tavares

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02-10-2010, 01:19 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by cjdv16 View Post
Matt Duchene is surrounded by a much more talented cast. Take note of the number of garbage goals he's scored of late as well as the number of primary v. secondary assists he's had and you'll better understand.


Moving back onto the topic at hand. I think beyond the fact that JT is likely banged up and simply hit the proverbial rookie wall, the issue is very much about his supporting cast.

We all knew JT wasn't a Crosby or Ovechkin (a player that can either: 1. single-handedly take over a game or 2. make those around him significantly better). JT is a player (e.g., Dany Heatly) that requires others to thrive.

Putting JT on a line with the offensively inept Blake Comeau ain't going to result in numbers at this stage of his career.

Throw JT out there with a Milan Hejduk, Chris Stewart, or Woltek Wolski and see the numbers that the kid produces. Bank the puck of the boards in your defensive zone and you've got the potential for an assist.

On the Islanders, you need the stars to align and perfection to even score a goal.


As others have mentioned, JT has been much better the last 10 games or so. He's comitted to the D zone, is back to making his patented short, in close passes (not his fault that Comeau can't convert -- look at his chances from last night alone), and has gotten better opportunities all around. He's also looked stronger on the puck.

The kid is fine..... everyone just got spoiled as he produced at a point per game clip early on in the year (addrenaline?). He will be fine.
Oh sure, that Colorado team is just stacked full of NHL All-Stars. Other than Stastny and Hejduk, Duchene is playing with a cast of pluggers, just like Tavares. Duchene
will be a better all around player than Tavares, w/o a doubt.

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02-10-2010, 01:23 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by JPIsles21 View Post
Lack of speed and strength are the major issues I see when watching him play. Considering his character, and work ethic I have no doubts in my mind that he will improve both as he gets stronger and older. Jason Spezza, Eric Staal, and Ryan Getzlaf are just a few examples of players who struggles with their skating early in their career. All three are excellent skaters now. JT will be fine.
He'll improve, but all those players are minimum 6:03, not 6:00 like Tavares. The jury is out on whether or not you took the right kid.

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