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Hawks new top 20 prospect list is out

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Old
03-11-2012, 05:07 PM
  #26
Hawkaholic
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
What do you base this on? I'm sure you see McNeill more than I do being in Canada - so you can fill me in here.

What i saw in the summer tourny, prospect camp, etc,....McNeill looked kind of lazy. Reminded me a bit of Kyle Beach.

I just have it in my head that the guy lives off his size advantage in juniors, and will drown when things even up. That's why I don't have him in the top 5. I'm kind of expecting him to be a bust.
McNeill to me, seems like he has the right tools to be a consistent NHLer that uses his size to his advantage and steps it up in big games. Saad has all the right tools as well, but isn't a 'tough/gritty' player and he can disappear for stretches, especially when the going get's tough. (not in the reg. season this year though)

There isn't much difference between the two, I just think McNeill's game is more suited for the NHL.

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Old
03-11-2012, 05:26 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
McNeill to me, seems like he has the right tools to be a consistent NHLer that uses his size to his advantage and steps it up in big games. Saad has all the right tools as well, but isn't a 'tough/gritty' player and he can disappear for stretches, especially when the going get's tough. (not in the reg. season this year though)

There isn't much difference between the two, I just think McNeill's game is more suited for the NHL.
Disagree with all of this.

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03-11-2012, 08:29 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
What do you base this on? I'm sure you see McNeill more than I do being in Canada - so you can fill me in here.

What i saw in the summer tourny, prospect camp, etc,....McNeill looked kind of lazy. Reminded me a bit of Kyle Beach.

I just have it in my head that the guy lives off his size advantage in juniors, and will drown when things even up. That's why I don't have him in the top 5. I'm kind of expecting him to be a bust.
McNeill was terrible at rookie camp. I didn't think he was lazy. I think ke just knows how to use his body, and didn't need to be all over the ice. He doesn't have the skills of Hossa carrying the puck, but he has the strength like Hossa where guys will bounce off him.

I was very disappointed with his showing at camp, but I think expecting him to be flying around just isn't his game. I thought he was behind in his skills but didn't think he was lazy. I don't think Beach is lazy either.

And yes I know about Beach's fight 2 years ago. And that guy came at Beach where he had to take the fight.

I think when you are a big guy at rookie camp that your not looking to smash smaller guys or physically demolish them. If a smaller guy comes at you well ok take the fight, but I think guys with size Beach, McNeill, Hayes those types of players look better when they lay the body and they do not smash people in rookie camp.

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03-11-2012, 08:38 PM
  #29
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mispost

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Old
03-11-2012, 08:42 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandofLincoln View Post
notables
K. Simpson
A. Richards
M. Carruth
R. Flick
R. Froese
K. Dahlbeck
S. Pepin
C. DiDomenico
Jardine
Richards has proven himself to be ECHL worthy, nothing more nothing less. He is in no way notable aside from the fact that he sucks bad. About time he makes use of that degree from Yale TBH.

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Old
03-12-2012, 01:50 AM
  #31
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Holl should be above Lalonde
Clenny should be lower
Saad #1

other than that I agree


hey Brad, I know you read here. Can you tell us why the list is like it is? Can send me a PM too if you want

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Old
03-12-2012, 12:42 PM
  #32
Brad Gardner
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Thanks for the comments.

McNeill was given the edge over Saad because he is thought to be the safer bet to reach his potential. I don't expect everyone to agree with that line of reasoning, but it was a pretty one-sided debate among the staff - although they are close in terms of the ranking, McNeill I think is more likely to make an impact night after night than Saad at this point in their development, no matter how impressive his OHL numbers have been.

Holl and Danault were the two names that received the most support in the bottom half of the rankings but I felt like there was not a ton of room to move them up yet. Both moved up from where they were last time around, for what it's worth. I can understand the argument for Holl being over Lalonde at least, but I opted not to cut Lalonde completely out of the picture with another season left on his contract (and his chances dwindling). For better or worse, I try not to read too much into any recent stretch of games, whether it be good or, in Lalonde's case, mostly terrible. It should stilll be, in my opinion, a holistic look at the prospects and not simply asking the question, "who is doing better this month?"

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Old
03-12-2012, 12:45 PM
  #33
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I'm curious why you've got K Hayes so low. Seeing his brothers success should bump him up if anything.

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Old
03-12-2012, 01:03 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brtriad View Post
I'm curious why you've got K Hayes so low. Seeing his brothers success should bump him up if anything.
People said similar things about Marcel Hossa, David Toews, and Jared Staal.

Plus Kevin and Jimmy play two very different styles. Kevin's a center who seems to pass first, while Jimmy likes to drive the net.

Kayes is developing nicely though. Still unsure where he fits into the Hawks' future, but there's no rush to find out. He doesn't even need a contract for two more years.

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Old
03-12-2012, 01:06 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
People said similar things about Marcel Hossa, David Toews, and Jared Staal.

Plus Kevin and Jimmy play two very different styles.

Kayes is developing nicely though. Still unsure where he fits into the Hawks' future, but there's no rush to find out. He doesn't need a contract for two more years.
Well the reason I bring it up is that they played together as recently as last year and will likely be playing together within another year or two. And their games are not all that different. Both rely on scoring with soft hands around the net and using their frame to protect the puck along the side boards. The former being Kevin's strong suit and the latter Jimmy's. They're going to make a hell of a tandem.

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03-12-2012, 01:27 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by BBSeabs27 View Post
I kinda thought that as well, but Shaw will probably end up like Ben Smith last year and then he'll be at the bottom of the bucket like Smith.
At this point Shaw's production isn't a fluke. Definitely better than Smith.

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Old
03-12-2012, 01:36 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Gardner View Post
McNeill was given the edge over Saad because he is thought to be the safer bet to reach his potential. I don't expect everyone to agree with that line of reasoning, but it was a pretty one-sided debate among the staff - although they are close in terms of the ranking, McNeill I think is more likely to make an impact night after night than Saad at this point in their development, no matter how impressive his OHL numbers have been.
By that line of reasoning, Andrew Shaw should be above both.

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03-12-2012, 01:52 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brtriad View Post
Well the reason I bring it up is that they played together as recently as last year and will likely be playing together within another year or two. And their games are not all that different. Both rely on scoring with soft hands around the net and using their frame to protect the puck along the side boards. The former being Kevin's strong suit and the latter Jimmy's. They're going to make a hell of a tandem.
Fair, my other examples didn't play together very much.

IIRC though, Kevin and Jimmy didn't play on the same line last year.

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03-12-2012, 03:54 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
At this point Shaw's production isn't a fluke. Definitely better than Smith.
This is true, Smith wasn't able to perform well in RS. I'm just cautious with prospects now ever since Smith and Morin.

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Old
03-12-2012, 04:16 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
Fair, my other examples didn't play together very much.

IIRC though, Kevin and Jimmy didn't play on the same line last year.
The J.Hayes-K.Hayes-Kreider line was great until Kevin got injured. After that Kevin got stuck on the third line.

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Old
03-12-2012, 04:44 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by brtriad View Post
I'm curious why you've got K Hayes so low. Seeing his brothers success should bump him up if anything.
I don't think 12th is all that low, as weird as that sounds, because the 'Hawks have so many first/second round picks with similar potential. When you look at the players at the same position around him, Kevin is still among the top handful of wingers in the system. He's behind Jimmy and Shaw, who have both played in the NHL this year, and a couple other first rounders in Beach and Danault.

Kevin is only just starting to develop at the college level, while Jimmy is much farther along in his development, obviously. Beach and Danault, in my opinion, have shown more potential offensively than K.Hayes has to date, but he's still growing into a larger role on BC and that could change eventually. That was my line of thinking on that one, anyways.

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Old
03-12-2012, 04:53 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
By that line of reasoning, Andrew Shaw should be above both.
Maybe you should tell us why Saad should be #1 and what he has that McNeill doesnt..

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03-12-2012, 05:38 PM
  #43
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Maybe you should tell us why Saad should be #1 and what he has that McNeill doesnt..
He's faster, he's smarter, he's in better physical shape, he's better defensively, he's on a completely different level offensively.

I would actually like to hear one thing that McNeil does better. Maybe he's less injury-prone.

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03-12-2012, 06:07 PM
  #44
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I think when all is said and done Saad will prove more in the NHL than McNeill does, though personally I hope they both turn into allstars.

Brad is welcome to his opinion of course.

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Old
03-12-2012, 07:43 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
He's faster, he's smarter, he's in better physical shape, he's better defensively, he's on a completely different level offensively.

I would actually like to hear one thing that McNeil does better. Maybe he's less injury-prone.
That's your opinion, not fact. Faster? Sure, but the others could be argued by the time they get to the pros. Scouts that actually watch the players clearly have a different opinion than you.

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Old
03-12-2012, 08:08 PM
  #46
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McNeil will be a complete nhl player and i put him ahead of Saad as well. Obviously I'm not comparing these two guys to kane/toews however when i'm ranking these two, i put mcneil ahead of saad for the same reason toews is ranked ahead of kane.....regardless of rankings, we got 2 good young kids for the future.......hopefully they both make an impact in 2 years

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03-12-2012, 08:15 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Scouts that actually watch the players clearly have a different opinion than you.
Scouts that actually watch the players drafted Daigle and Lawton first overall too. It's not like you need a Ph.D to become a scout.

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03-12-2012, 08:19 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Blackhawks4life View Post
Obviously I'm not comparing these two guys to kane/toews however when i'm ranking these two, i put mcneil ahead of saad for the same reason toews is ranked ahead of kane.....
Because he's Canadian?

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03-12-2012, 08:34 PM
  #49
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Because he's Canadian?
Actually kane is my fav player.......so try again

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Old
03-12-2012, 08:49 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
Because he's Canadian?
Because he's a center, and everyone knows they're automatically better than wingers.

Like a zillion times better. No matter what.

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