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Old
03-14-2012, 06:58 PM
  #1
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Think Logically

First of all I know we fell hard like really hard but in my opinion we were not as good as we were playing and and getting lucky. If anything I thought we were going to crash and hit reality in the first round of the playoffs and get smoked in 4-5 games and not this early. Most logical fans knew this team playing to their full potential was a borderline playoff team or a first round warm up for the big boys. Experts had us anywhere between so 9th to 12th so in reality were right where we should be.

The crash in my opinion is teams solved Ron Wilsons run and gun system and anticipated what we were going to and when they countered successfully we had no answer to it.The problem with this idea it only works SOMETIMES and once teams figure you out you get exposed like a stripper. Don't get me wrong it's fun and is entertaining as hell but you know whats more entertaining? WINNING.With Carlyle in charge I hope we see more of a defensive, physical team that plays into our strengths. With Wilson the system with our defense didn't work because we were in a way having ****** trying to act like nuns.

To the fans depressed and going emo all over this place RELAX!! Personally I prefer getting a top 5 pick and getting a chance at a legit talent then being sodomized in the first round by the Rangers or Bruins. It sucks I know I feel your pain but think of the long term not the short term. At least we got our pick this year and we have a chance of a high pick . Who knows in 2-3 years with the player we select in this draft and other draft picks coming into fruition we might look back as this season as a blessing in disguise.

And please stop with the FIRE BURKE OMGZZZZ!!! 4 YEARS IN AND NO PLAY OFFS!!! LOOK AT OTTAWA AND FLORIDA THEY ARE BETTER THAN US DUR DUR DUR. Do you guys remember how bad our team and prospect pool was before Burke? Do you remember how bad our team was? He turned the Marlies into Calder cup contenders and we have a prospect pool that many teams are jealous off. Ottawa had most of their core in place for years, our core in my opinion is not fully finished just yet. Florida yea sure they are doing OKAY this year and might be a team that makes the playoffs for the next 2-3 years then what after?? Square one and rebuild folks!!

I will admit that Burke has made a few mistakes along the way like, "the trade" not getting a legit goalie and the Army and Connolly contract. But if you look at the big picture instead of being short sighted and you will see its not all doom and gloom if you are a rational fan and understands where this team is and how were a few years away from contending. Leaf fans go from complaining that we traded our first round picks for veterans to complaining trade our prospects and picks just to be a first round team. You guys are never happy haha

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Old
03-14-2012, 07:03 PM
  #2
RonnieB13
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whenever I meet one who's so pessimistic about the leafs yet claims it be a "fan", I simply tell them to go cheer for somebody else. always results in a lot of "umm..well...you know..."

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Old
03-14-2012, 07:05 PM
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I didn't vote for Fire Burke in other thread, but do you think Burke didn't know what he inherited when he said "I don't believe in 5 year rebuilds"? He should've thought before he spoke.

So, when a fan complains about no playoffs in 4 years, I'd say just deal with it.

Now, thats logic.

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03-14-2012, 07:18 PM
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you realize the leafs should have been in the playoffs this year and to be frank they are likely another 2-3 years away from that and 4-6 years from fighting for the cup.

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03-14-2012, 07:19 PM
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"Think Logically". Baha, you're in the wrong place bud.

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03-14-2012, 07:20 PM
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rumman
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People, please stop drinking the kool-aide, your embarrassing yourselves.

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03-14-2012, 07:22 PM
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threeGo
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Originally Posted by masyo88 View Post
And please stop with the FIRE BURKE OMGZZZZ!!! 4 YEARS IN AND NO PLAY OFFS!!! LOOK AT OTTAWA AND FLORIDA THEY ARE BETTER THAN US DUR DUR DUR. Do you guys remember how bad our team and prospect pool was before Burke? Do you remember how bad our team was? He turned the Marlies into Calder cup contenders and we have a prospect pool that many teams are jealous off. Ottawa had most of their core in place for years, our core in my opinion is not fully finished just yet. Florida yea sure they are doing OKAY this year and might be a team that makes the playoffs for the next 2-3 years then what after?? Square one and rebuild folks!!
That bolded part doesn't help your point. I'll admit the prospect pool was bad but the if the team was bad then our current team is ****. Burke's team has managed to finish lower than JFJ's team every single year he's been here. I don't know how you can say that team was worse compared to now when back then we had better results. If burke doesn't make the playoffs next year then I think he has to go. Imagine if our current team managed to make the playoffs this season. That would be the 2nd worst scenario to finishing in 9th/10th because then Burke would feel the team is good enough for next year and Wilson would continue to coach. Then next year we would have seen the collapse. I'm happy about this collapse as it will open up burkies eyes to the problems this team has.

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03-14-2012, 07:23 PM
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The only thing being put forward by the remaining Burke supporters is the claim that the prospect pool is so deep. This is also the only thing that can't be proved at this time, it's nebulous, it won't be known until the future. By any other measure Burke has been a huge failure in Toronto. It wouldn't be so bad if he wasn't such a blowhard. Have a modicum of decorum and it might fly but a failing fat windbag invites all the derision he has earned.

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Old
03-14-2012, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Landeskog View Post
you realize the leafs should have been in the playoffs this year and to be frank they are likely another 2-3 years away from that and 4-6 years from fighting for the cup.
According to who we should have been in the playoffs? Like I said most experts had us between the NINTH TO TWELFTH spots in the east, not in the playoffs. Just cause we went on a really long and hot run and were in a playoff position does not mean we should have been in the playoffs. If the Rangers, Bruins and Flyers are the teams that SHOULD HAVE been in the playoffs not us. Ask yourself this, what would be more shocking before this season, if the Leafs or the Rangers didn't make the playoffs? Exactly, you guys had high hopes that was fueled by a mostly flukey season until reality hit.

And Burke should not have said that when he first came he should have known this media and fan base are like the annoying girlfriend that never lets things go and doesn't understand when things dont happen their way and has unrealistic expectations about everything.

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Old
03-14-2012, 07:33 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by rumman View Post
People, please stop drinking the kool-aide, your embarrassing yourselves.
If you read properly you would have read that I admitted Burke has made mistakes, but which gm didn't. Keep being a pessimist and thinking its the end of the world.

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03-14-2012, 07:41 PM
  #11
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Logically this team has no saviour in sight.

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03-14-2012, 07:45 PM
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Instead of a proper rebuild, we get a 7 year re tool that will end up being mediocre anyways.

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03-14-2012, 07:46 PM
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If there is any ounce of intelligence in that board room, Burke gets one more year and if we're on the outside looking in again, then it's time for someone else to take the reins. After almost 8 years without a single playoff game (and 45+ years without so much as a Cup Final appearance), I'm done with the excuses, the explanations, the rationalizations and the flip flopping. Win, for crying out loud. Just ****ing win. Jesus Christ.

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03-14-2012, 07:46 PM
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Jerkini
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Originally Posted by Corleone View Post
Instead of a proper rebuild, we get a 7 year re tool that will end up being mediocre anyways.
More like an indefinite re-tool, where the best we can hope for is clinching the 8th seed.


Last edited by Jerkini: 03-14-2012 at 08:18 PM.
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Old
03-14-2012, 07:52 PM
  #15
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Originally Posted by the doctor View Post
The only thing being put forward by the remaining Burke supporters is the claim that the prospect pool is so deep. This is also the only thing that can't be proved at this time, it's nebulous, it won't be known until the future. By any other measure Burke has been a huge failure in Toronto. It wouldn't be so bad if he wasn't such a blowhard. Have a modicum of decorum and it might fly but a failing fat windbag invites all the derision he has earned.
No team has gone from a horrible team like we had to being a legit cup contender in a a few years. It takes time and patients and a few bumps along the road to get the right pieces into place to make a deep run. Have you ever done anything in life that has taken a little longer then expected or hasn't gone to plan... of-course you havent.The problem with us is most of our pieces are a little while away from contributing to the team and the temporary pieces we have in place (Connolly, Armstrong, Lombardi) are lackluster and not performing to potential. And that fat blow-hard is in charge of one of the biggest sports teams in North America while your trolling online from your moms basement.

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03-14-2012, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by masyo88 View Post
And please stop with the FIRE BURKE OMGZZZZ!!! 4 YEARS IN AND NO PLAY OFFS!!! LOOK AT OTTAWA AND FLORIDA THEY ARE BETTER THAN US DUR DUR DUR. Do you guys remember how bad our team and prospect pool was before Burke? Do you remember how bad our team was? He turned the Marlies into Calder cup contenders and we have a prospect pool that many teams are jealous off. Ottawa had most of their core in place for years, our core in my opinion is not fully finished just yet. Florida yea sure they are doing OKAY this year and might be a team that makes the playoffs for the next 2-3 years then what after?? Square one and rebuild folks!!
I wish people stopped saying this. So we're supposed to be a content that we went from being "pile of s**t" to a "little less pile of s**t"?

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03-14-2012, 08:27 PM
  #17
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Team has no top centre, no top goalie, those things are very very difficult to get, and it doesnt seem like we have them in our system.

We also have fairly terrible defensemen

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03-14-2012, 08:55 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by masyo88 View Post
First of all I know we fell hard like really hard but in my opinion we were not as good as we were playing and and getting lucky. If anything I thought we were going to crash and hit reality in the first round of the playoffs and get smoked in 4-5 games and not this early. Most logical fans knew this team playing to their full potential was a borderline playoff team or a first round warm up for the big boys. Experts had us anywhere between so 9th to 12th so in reality were right where we should be.

The crash in my opinion is teams solved Ron Wilsons run and gun system and anticipated what we were going to and when they countered successfully we had no answer to it.The problem with this idea it only works SOMETIMES and once teams figure you out you get exposed like a stripper. Don't get me wrong it's fun and is entertaining as hell but you know whats more entertaining? WINNING.With Carlyle in charge I hope we see more of a defensive, physical team that plays into our strengths. With Wilson the system with our defense didn't work because we were in a way having ****** trying to act like nuns.

To the fans depressed and going emo all over this place RELAX!! Personally I prefer getting a top 5 pick and getting a chance at a legit talent then being sodomized in the first round by the Rangers or Bruins. It sucks I know I feel your pain but think of the long term not the short term. At least we got our pick this year and we have a chance of a high pick . Who knows in 2-3 years with the player we select in this draft and other draft picks coming into fruition we might look back as this season as a blessing in disguise.

And please stop with the FIRE BURKE OMGZZZZ!!! 4 YEARS IN AND NO PLAY OFFS!!! LOOK AT OTTAWA AND FLORIDA THEY ARE BETTER THAN US DUR DUR DUR. Do you guys remember how bad our team and prospect pool was before Burke? Do you remember how bad our team was? He turned the Marlies into Calder cup contenders and we have a prospect pool that many teams are jealous off. Ottawa had most of their core in place for years, our core in my opinion is not fully finished just yet. Florida yea sure they are doing OKAY this year and might be a team that makes the playoffs for the next 2-3 years then what after?? Square one and rebuild folks!!

I will admit that Burke has made a few mistakes along the way like, "the trade" not getting a legit goalie and the Army and Connolly contract. But if you look at the big picture instead of being short sighted and you will see its not all doom and gloom if you are a rational fan and understands where this team is and how were a few years away from contending. Leaf fans go from complaining that we traded our first round picks for veterans to complaining trade our prospects and picks just to be a first round team. You guys are never happy haha

I like the title of the thread, but it does not fit, or at least my logic.

I do remember how bad our team was when Burke arrived, we had some useful parts and some prospects but over all not that much.

So Burke as the general Manager of a team that he knew he was going to be the GM long before he was hired, had time to make the same assessment. He went on National TV at his press conference and stated that he was going to rebuild this team on the fly.

He traded away our future for a player that we would not be able to use for 7-8 years according to your schedule. Those 3 picks would have been the difference and we would now be talking about how bright our future is. Our future at present is that we need a number 1 center, a number 1 D-man and a # 1 goalie. We also require some players who can play in traffic as we are severely lacking these players. We have drafted some of these players and look flush for 3rd and 4th line players. Where we are lacking is a top 6 and we currently have 3 players who can play in the top 2 lines. If we get a number 1 center we will still need 2 more and we do not have them within our system currently.

The above are all issues that Burke has ignored.....I truly believe that the time for him to go is now, he has had 4 years with no results and he is making an a** of his self every second week with all the silly comments. Noticed I never mentioned all the FA signings as they only further add to the equation as to why he needs to go.


Our prospect pool is not the envy of all the teams. Historically we as fans over rate our prospects but when we try and move them no one is buying what we are selling at the inflated worth that we all give them. Kadri was shopped all over the NHL and he is still here!

So in my world we are still a team that has many pieces to acquire with a Number one goalie the most important need, followed closely with a purge at the top.

Edit: I left the D- man out of this as my fingers got sore typing, we need at least two D-man that are not currently within our system a Number 1 D man and a mean son of a ***** who can play top minutes.


Last edited by diceman934: 03-14-2012 at 09:01 PM.
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Old
03-14-2012, 08:57 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by masyo88 View Post
Florida yea sure they are doing OKAY this year and might be a team that makes the playoffs for the next 2-3 years then what after?? Square one and rebuild folks!!
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/nhl_organisation_rankings/

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03-14-2012, 08:58 PM
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1. Get a goalie.
2. Get Dustin Brown.
3. Trade Luke Schenn while his value is still decent.
4. Ditch overpaid 3rd line players (Army, Connolly, Lombo)
5. Ask Kulemin if he remembers that he is in the NHL and that he once scored 30. If he keeps the same stupid ass look on his face...trade the softy.
6. If someone wants to overpay badly for anyone on the roster...do it.
7. Draft a center, not because he will help us now, but because it's clearly the best asset you can acquire.

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03-14-2012, 09:13 PM
  #21
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I wish people stopped saying this. So we're supposed to be a content that we went from being "pile of s**t" to a "little less pile of s**t"?
No, but it's obvious that building the team with a strong young core has been the goal. That, and being patient with them, allowing them to grow together down in the AHL with an excellent coach. Lack of patience has crippled this franchise time and again for the past 15 years.

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03-14-2012, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Landeskog View Post
you realize the leafs should have been in the playoffs this year and to be frank they are likely another 2-3 years away from that and 4-6 years from fighting for the cup.
The leafs are not 2-3 years away from the playoffs. In fact I'm pretty sure this same exact roster would make the post season next year

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03-14-2012, 10:13 PM
  #23
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"Think Logically". Baha, you're in the wrong place bud.


The team definitely won games that their play would probably suggest they didn't deserve to win. On the flip side, they lost games that they probably deserved a better fate and won games that they deserved to win. I'm pretty sure you can say that about all the teams in the league. No team is as good a their best win or as bad as their worst lost. They fall somewhere in between. I thought this roster could make playoffs. This roster for 2/3 this season showed that it could have a playoff spot. I have absolutely no explanation for what happened to this team, where, how or why things fell apart but it did and I don't think it can be blamed on any one thing. It can't be all Burke's fault, it can't be all of Wilson's fault, it can't be solely on the players. I think everyone needs to share the blame here (some more than others maybe). Compared to other teams, we may not have been a team good enough to make the playoffs, but we were certainly a team good enough to be a playoff contender up until game 82 of this season. Leafs have 12 games to go and I have a better shot at winning the lottery 3 times in the next month than this team has of making post-season. You can argue that the team being in 12th place may be 'reasonable' but the play that has gotten them to that 12th place seeding is not reasonable, is not excusable and will probably forever remain a mystery to me.

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Old
03-14-2012, 10:36 PM
  #24
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One of Burkes biggest mistakes in my opinion was saying it should take us only four years, he should have known to choose his words wisely and not give the people in this market a time frame because the people here will chew you up if your off by a minute. He should have just said " I don't know how long its going to take but I promise Toronto will have a contender under my term" yada yada yada! When he put a exact time frame he put more pressure on himself and gave this fan base false sense of hope.

Burke has made his mistakes to, like the Connolly, Armstrong and so on. Thank god they are gone soon and they are just warming up the seats for our prospects. One thing that annoys me about some in the anti-Burke crowd is they look at the all negative things Burke has done but never give him credit for the many things he as done well. For example "OMGZZZ WE GOT RIPPED OFF IN THE KESSEL TRADE WE COULD HAVE HAD SEGUIN AND HAMILTON OMG OMG" But they don't look at the Kaberle trade where we got a first, a second and Colborne. Then we used the first round pick to move up to Biggs, used the second to get Lilles. So in essence we gave up Seguin, Hamilton and got Kessel, Biggs, Colborne, Liles. Most NHL GM's would not do that trade! Then getting Gardener, Lupul for Beaucy was high way robbery and so on.

And I can't believe people are not happy about our prospect poolKadri, Blacker, Ashton, Ross, Biggs, Percy, Olden, Gardender, and add a top 5 pick in this draft and its looking decent. Burke has said multiple times that he is not trading any of the youth just to make the first round. I love that, for the first time in forever we have a gm who wants to build properly and not throw picks at veterans and hopes it sticks to the wall. For the love of god, some leafs fans went from demanding not to trade our prospects and picks and letting them develop to sell the barn just so we can be a first round playoff team. Bi-polar nation at its finest.

One of biggest Burkes biggest mistake has been is not finding a number one goalie. You can get by having Bozak playing on the first line until the right piece comes to replace but the goalie position is to important to take a gamble. This off-season he should get a number one goalie and don't take any chances. We need some confidence back there and as a result our whole team will play more confidently. With better goaltending this year i thing this year we would have had 7-8 more wins atleast and been in a playoff position.

This offseason I hope Burke finds a number one goalie and adds another top 6 forward to team. Other things he should do in my opinion is trade Mcarthur +Kuli +A first for a legit number one goalie. Then trade Army for a first, see if you can trade Connolly for fourth or fifth round pick and bury Lambo in the minors. Try and add Parise to our top 6, add a bit of size and nasty in our bottom 6 like a Moen or a Prust. and Gaustad. Next season our team will look like this,

Kessel, Bozak, Lups
Kadri, Grabs, Parise
Moen, Steckel, Frattin
Brown, Gaustad, Rosehill

Phaenuff, Gunnar
Scenn, Gardener
Liles, Komo

Number one goalie

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03-14-2012, 11:03 PM
  #25
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Logically Burke should have aquired a #1 C by now.

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