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The Official 2012 Draft Thread: Part V | "Fizzling for Rissling"

View Poll Results: With the 2nd overall pick, what would you choose?
Center (Grigorenko, Galchenyuk, etc.) 100 58.82%
Defenseman (Murray, Dumba, etc.) 70 41.18%
Voters: 170. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-19-2012, 10:15 PM
  #326
Smartguy
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Originally Posted by senorchang View Post
They arent the bruins. Oilers aren't a depth team in which a player has to prove himself to qualify himself as top 6. His 1st day and he'll be fighting for the 1st line c job instead of the 2nd.

Idk if you guys were watching the world jrs or are reading the scouting report but Yakupov and Grigorenko are generational talents. This draft is gonna be like the 01 one. 2 franchise players like spezza and kovy. This isn't a question of "idk maybe hes a nhl level player"... its a guarantee.
I sure hope your right, imagine a top 6 filled with the likes of hall Hopkins eberle grigorenko and I still think PRV will be special just give him time, we will be in tough to keep all of these guys in a couple years if we want a good goaltender and defense but who needs that when you have an offense with that haha

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03-19-2012, 11:58 PM
  #327
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At what point did Yakupov see his production drop so much? Wasn't he at 2ppg for a stretch there and looked to be one of the best prospects since Crosby? I just checked his stats and see he finished with 1.64 ppg. Still dang good, but all of a sudden when you compare him to some past 1st overalls from the OHL his production is at the bottom.

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03-20-2012, 02:03 AM
  #328
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Its not easy to come back from an injury and put up points right away. Just give him some time and see how he does in the playoffs.

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03-20-2012, 09:31 AM
  #329
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I don't know if you guys read Elliotte Friedman's 30 Thoughts but in my opinion it is one of the best hockey reads out there and he has a new one every Monday or Tuesday. Very insightful.

Today's installment brings up some very interesting correlations between the Radulov situation and how it impacts the top of this draft. In no way am I trying to stir up the "anti-Russian" debate, but it definitely raises some thought-provoking points.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-thoughts.html

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03-20-2012, 11:43 AM
  #330
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Your post is a whole bunch of crazy talk. OEL is a once in a decade player? Here is a list of all the Dmen drafted in that decade I would take ahead of him:

Karlsson, Edler, Pietrangelo, Suter, Weber, Keith, Letang, Doughty, Carlson, Seabrook, Kronwall, Green, Burns. Those being the obvious., with a handful of debatable ones (Subban, JMFJ, Shattenkirk, MDZ etc).

Not trying to hate on OEL, think he's fantastic, but you're trying to make him sound like a generational talent, which he is far from being. What is stopping Ryan Murray from becoming as valuable, if not more? And where is this highly drafted Dman=automatic bust nonsense coming from? Pronger went 2nd overall. Niedermayer 3rd overall. Doughty 2nd, Peitrangelo 4th in the same year (Bogo 3rd who is still developing solidly). You might as well say Grigorenko is susceptible to being a bust because he's a C from the QMJHL and so was Daigle. See how dumb stuff like that sounds?

I'll say it again, Murray projects to be a Duncan Keith type (maybe bringing a bit more D and less O). That's a 1st pairing Dman, something we don't currently have (on some nights, when healthy, Whitney can look like that).
Im saying the chances of dmen busting are way higher. Those players were successful because of good player development, and to some extent luck. Given the oilers track record they will probably rush him into the league as an 18 year old in an impact role and that could severely stunt his growth. Forwards are far easier to draft and no one doubts grigorenko nhl ready.

OEL was able to come into league and play impact role, thats as rare as they come.

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03-20-2012, 12:31 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
At what point did Yakupov see his production drop so much? Wasn't he at 2ppg for a stretch there and looked to be one of the best prospects since Crosby? I just checked his stats and see he finished with 1.64 ppg. Still dang good, but all of a sudden when you compare him to some past 1st overalls from the OHL his production is at the bottom.
i think everyone did, grig was at 2PPG hes below now, pearson was at like 3 early, and 2 later, hes below now.

theres a ton of turnover in junior hockey every year, tons of new, young players that need to learn the system, improve their game defensively.

wouldn't be surprised to see a combined 1.5-2 GPG difference before and after new years.

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03-20-2012, 12:50 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by senorchang View Post
Im saying the chances of dmen busting are way higher. Those players were successful because of good player development, and to some extent luck. Given the oilers track record they will probably rush him into the league as an 18 year old in an impact role and that could severely stunt his growth. Forwards are far easier to draft and no one doubts grigorenko nhl ready.

OEL was able to come into league and play impact role, thats as rare as they come.
It's not about which position is riskier. At some point we need to address the backend and no other team is willing to trade a young top pairing defenceman. Guys like OEL, Pietrangelo, Doughty, Karlsson, Suter, Weber, Letang, MDZ, Myers, etc. are all untouchable. I doubt they even move these guys for a complete stud like Jordan Eberle.

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03-20-2012, 01:48 PM
  #333
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I just feel that we have enough dmen in the pipe as compared to fwds. This team has been hurting for secondary scoring in the top 6. If you can have 6 dman that are all in the safe level of Petry and Smid from the 1st pairing to the 2nd pairing then that is a deep defense. It is the 2nd line centreman that every team really needs and teams with a 1,2,3 centremen is what win cups. Having RNH, Grigorenko, and Lander is very nice centremen.

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03-20-2012, 02:21 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
It's not about which position is riskier. At some point we need to address the backend and no other team is willing to trade a young top pairing defenceman. Guys like OEL, Pietrangelo, Doughty, Karlsson, Suter, Weber, Letang, MDZ, Myers, etc. are all untouchable. I doubt they even move these guys for a complete stud like Jordan Eberle.
I don't agree.

Young top-tier defenseman move all the time. Teams get fed up with the down years most experience and they got moved along. Granted, it's usually the Ryan Whitney's and Joni Pitkanen's, not the Drew Doughty's, but the chance you're getting a Drew Doughty is slim to begin with.

As for the draft: BPA without exception.

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03-20-2012, 02:27 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
At what point did Yakupov see his production drop so much? Wasn't he at 2ppg for a stretch there and looked to be one of the best prospects since Crosby? I just checked his stats and see he finished with 1.64 ppg. Still dang good, but all of a sudden when you compare him to some past 1st overalls from the OHL his production is at the bottom.
I have been saying this for a while, in many peoples minds Yakupov was putting up Tavarez, Kane type numbers, but he just didn't. I don't even see him as a run away 1st pick.

At this point I look at a guy like Dumba and think his numbers are just as good.

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03-20-2012, 03:00 PM
  #336
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I don't agree.

Young top-tier defenseman move all the time. Teams get fed up with the down years most experience and they got moved along. Granted, it's usually the Ryan Whitney's and Joni Pitkanen's, not the Drew Doughty's, but the chance you're getting a Drew Doughty is slim to begin with.

As for the draft: BPA without exception.
So how does our defence get better?

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Old
03-20-2012, 03:18 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
So how does our defence get better?
We trade Grigorenko for someone who isnt as good as Dumba or Murray.

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03-20-2012, 03:19 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
I have been saying this for a while, in many peoples minds Yakupov was putting up Tavarez, Kane type numbers, but he just didn't. I don't even see him as a run away 1st pick.

At this point I look at a guy like Dumba and think his numbers are just as good.
You only have to watch Yakupov play to know why he's the runaway #1 pick. It goes beyond just stats. The very first time I saw him play I knew he was a special talent. No doubt in my mind even early last season that he would be the easy #1 prospect in this upcoming draft.

There certainly is solid talent in this draft... talented dmen like Dumba, Murray, Reinhart, Trouba, Rielly, Ceci and other very good forwards like Galchenyuk and Grigorenko... but Yakupov is well ahead of the pack imo. I'd say he's the closest to generational since Crosby/Malkin/Ovy and I'd bet that Yakupov will likely put up Stamkos type numbers in the NHL. Multiple 50+ goal seasons isn't unreasonable upside for him.

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03-20-2012, 03:25 PM
  #339
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Tavares was a better player and prospect in the OHL.

I watched JT a lot since I grew up with his line mate in Oshawa and I can say he was definitely better than Yakupov.

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03-20-2012, 03:27 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
I don't agree.

Young top-tier defenseman move all the time. Teams get fed up with the down years most experience and they got moved along. Granted, it's usually the Ryan Whitney's and Joni Pitkanen's, not the Drew Doughty's, but the chance you're getting a Drew Doughty is slim to begin with.

As for the draft: BPA without exception.
Hell no not when you have a top 2 pick and the top two ranked players are Russian. It would look pretty stupid if Murray is lighting it up in the NHL, while your asset is lighting it up in the KHL.

There are exceptions to every rule.

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03-20-2012, 03:29 PM
  #341
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So how does our defence get better?
The Oilers have acquired five top pairing defenseman post-lockout.

It's not that hard to put together a decent defense. They are more readily available than top centres or elite goal scorers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
We trade Grigorenko for someone who isnt as good as Dumba or Murray.
And how good are Dumba and Murray?

I like them both a lot, but I'm not sold on either as elite #1 defenseman.

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03-20-2012, 03:30 PM
  #342
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Also rough start thus far for Alex.

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03-20-2012, 03:32 PM
  #343
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Hell no not when you have a top 2 pick and the top two ranked players are Russian. It would look pretty stupid if Murray is lighting it up in the NHL, while your asset is lighting it up in the KHL.

There are exceptions to every rule.
So you would have drafted Cam Barker instead of Ovechkin or Malkin then, eh?

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03-20-2012, 03:32 PM
  #344
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The Oilers have acquired five top pairing defenseman post-lockout.

It's not that hard to put together a decent defense. They are more readily available than top centres or elite goal scorers.
Tell that to Tambo and co.

Who are the five I count 3:

Pronger
Visnovsky
Whitney(when acquired not the player now)

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03-20-2012, 03:33 PM
  #345
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Hell no not when you have a top 2 pick and the top two ranked players are Russian. It would look pretty stupid if Murray is lighting it up in the NHL, while your asset is lighting it up in the KHL.

There are exceptions to every rule.
Yea because all the Russians picked top 2 in the draft went back to the KHL.

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03-20-2012, 03:35 PM
  #346
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So you would have drafted Cam Barker instead of Ovechkin or Malkin then, eh?
I honestly can't weigh in on that draft because I never really followed prospects back then but understand that huge fear too.

Other than those two, we've seen Zherdev, Filatov and now Kuznetsov(possibly) all ditch on the NHL.

Now today Dimitry Chesnokov was talking about how the Red Army team still owns Grigorenkos rights and is expected to make a huge push for him. Now I'm not sold on exactly what the means and if either Ovy or Malkin were in that boat. I believe Malkin & Ovy were both playing in the Super Liga correct?

I dunno I'm fairly risk adverse, so I see the reason for passing on them and taking a d-man. You think the players coming over and playing in the CHL means they are somewhat ready to do what it takes to play in the NHL. But who knows maybe those are the years that make them homesick and makes them want to return to Russia, who knows.

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03-20-2012, 03:37 PM
  #347
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Tell that to Tambo and co.

Who are the five I count 3:

Pronger
Visnovsky
Whitney(when acquired not the player now)
Pitkanen and Souray, we don't need a true number one if we have six top 4 dmen like Carolina had. If we keep this POS defense next year and just add Murray im going to be pissed. It's the number one reason we aren't winning games, and any of the d men available this year won't change that for at least 2-3 year probably longer.

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03-20-2012, 03:37 PM
  #348
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When was the last time a top3 pick was traded for a roster player and not just moving up or down a few spots?

Has it ever happened?

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03-20-2012, 03:38 PM
  #349
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Yea because all the Russians picked top 2 in the draft went back to the KHL.
I'm just saying there are reasonable exceptions to every rule, otherwise yes I agree BPA all the time.

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03-20-2012, 03:40 PM
  #350
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When was the last time a top3 pick was traded for a roster player and not just moving up or down a few spots?

Has it ever happened?
Didn't Burke trade McCabe and a pick to get into the top 3?

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