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The Official 2012 Draft Thread: Part V | "Fizzling for Rissling"

View Poll Results: With the 2nd overall pick, what would you choose?
Center (Grigorenko, Galchenyuk, etc.) 100 58.82%
Defenseman (Murray, Dumba, etc.) 70 41.18%
Voters: 170. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-29-2012, 11:17 AM
  #926
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Dumba is going to be better.

Arguably he is right now, and he is a year younger than Murray, with one less development year.

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03-29-2012, 11:35 AM
  #927
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Murray played 40 minutes??! I honestly assumed he was probably playing about 30 minutes a game, which makes his +/- even more incredible. When Murray wasn't on the ice his team would have got absolutely trounced.

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03-29-2012, 11:44 AM
  #928
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Just draft the ********ing Swede, it's a well know fact that any Swede drafted amongst the top 6 will be a star. Sundin -89, Forsberg -91, D.Sedin -99, H.Sedin -99, Backstrom -06 are or were stars, Hedman/OEL -09 and Landeskog/Larsson/Zinabejad -11 are coming...

That's all we have from top 6 ... But it's still impressive

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03-29-2012, 12:13 PM
  #929
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Just draft the ********ing Swede, it's a well know fact that any Swede drafted amongst the top 6 will be a star. Sundin -89, Forsberg -91, D.Sedin -99, H.Sedin -99, Backstrom -06 are or were stars, Hedman/OEL -09 and Landeskog/Larsson/Zinabejad -11 are coming...

That's all we have from top 6 ... But it's still impressive

We're a bit gun shy after Paajarvi.

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03-29-2012, 12:43 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Lay Z Boy GM View Post
Murray played 40 minutes??! I honestly assumed he was probably playing about 30 minutes a game, which makes his +/- even more incredible. When Murray wasn't on the ice his team would have got absolutely trounced.
To be fair, there was an almost full period of OT in yesterdays game. But yeah, he played half the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Dumba is going to be better.

Arguably he is right now, and he is a year younger than Murray, with one less development year.
How's he doing in the playoffs?...

Kidding obviously. To be honest, Murray needed a strong playoffs to prove something. He wasn't putting up stunning numbers and he's been painted as a defensive defensemen. People we're looking past him in the rankings. But he didn't have a strong playoffs... he had an exceptional playoffs. I'd like to think this playoff series showed that Murray is the kind of player that can prop up his team and make those around him better. IMO, He's the best defense prospect in the draft.

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03-29-2012, 12:59 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by Soli View Post
How's he doing in the playoffs?...

Kidding obviously. To be honest, Murray needed a strong playoffs to prove something. He wasn't putting up stunning numbers and he's been painted as a defensive defensemen. People we're looking past him in the rankings. But he didn't have a strong playoffs... he had an exceptional playoffs. I'd like to think this playoff series showed that Murray is the kind of player that can prop up his team and make those around him better. IMO, He's the best defense prospect in the draft.
The series helped his cause, no doubt. Both dmen have been carrying poor teams all year.

There are only ten teams in the WC so making the playoffs aint no thang.

What makes you say he is the best dman in the draft?

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03-29-2012, 01:07 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
The series helped his cause, no doubt. Both dmen have been carrying poor teams all year.

There are only ten teams in the WC so making the playoffs aint no thang.

What makes you say he is the best dman in the draft?
I value his abilities more than Dumba's and think his game will translate better to the NHL.

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03-29-2012, 01:09 PM
  #933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
The series helped his cause, no doubt. Both dmen have been carrying poor teams all year.

There are only ten teams in the WC so making the playoffs aint no thang.

What makes you say he is the best dman in the draft?
Well Dumba's HC is the HC of the U-18 team, so Dumba's going (not that anything's been announce, but come on)

If he has a big tournament, a la Mark Scheifflee(sp), maybe he vaults up the charts, more so?

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03-29-2012, 01:13 PM
  #934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soli View Post
I value his abilities more than Dumba's and think his game will translate better to the NHL.
What does this mean?

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03-29-2012, 01:14 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
What does this mean?
He prefers less in game risk, less chaos.


More simplicity.

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03-29-2012, 01:17 PM
  #936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
What does this mean?
I shouldn't have to spell it out for you, their skillsets have been beat to death. I know you're versed in what both have to offer.

I like Murray's game vs. Dumba's game.


Last edited by Soli: 03-29-2012 at 01:26 PM.
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03-29-2012, 01:18 PM
  #937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koto View Post
He prefers less in game risk, less chaos.


More beast.
fixed.

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03-29-2012, 01:21 PM
  #938
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haha i think dumba's game can equally, probably more so, be referred to as beastly.

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03-29-2012, 01:23 PM
  #939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
What does this mean?
Sorry to jump in Soli but i'll answer this one.

I think the fact that Murray plays a controlled, safer game than Dumba would lead most to believe that he has a better chance to fully translate his skills to the next level. I would say that the consensus is that Murray is the safest pick of the Dmen in the draft, the only question is how much high end upside does he have?
I personally love his skillset more than any Dman in this draft and feel that he will excel at the NHL level, i feel that his skills are a perfect match for the NHL game.

Dumba has tons of upside, he might even turn out to be the best player in the draft even the forwards when all is said and done but i would say that he's a bit riskier than Murray because he plays a high event game that could lead to him getting out of position at times.

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03-29-2012, 01:29 PM
  #940
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Simplicity and one dimensional play is not something I want out of a defenseman. I want a dynamic 2 way force. Doesn't Have to be flashy but should be an offensive guy who can play 200 feet. I don't care about size although if the player is bigger its an added plus.

Please don't tell me someone like Lidstrom plays the game with a beautiful, quiet simplicity either. He has been a 2 way cerebral force his entire career who was a ridiculously good offensive defenseman in his prime.

If the Oilers end up drafting a D, I hope they take Dumba. Way more potential there compared to Murray. Murray reminds me of Jay Bouwmeester.

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03-29-2012, 01:30 PM
  #941
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lay Z Boy GM View Post
Murray played 40 minutes??! I honestly assumed he was probably playing about 30 minutes a game, which makes his +/- even more incredible. When Murray wasn't on the ice his team would have got absolutely trounced.
That is why I want Murray, people don't realize it because his numbers are poor. He has been a superstar on a brutal team. #2 take him, #3 take him. If we miss him take Dumba. Kid will be a stud to.

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03-29-2012, 01:33 PM
  #942
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I think Murray will end up being the dynamic two-way force you speak of.

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03-29-2012, 01:35 PM
  #943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soli View Post
I shouldn't have to spell it out for you, their skillsets have been beat to death. I know you're versed in what both have to offer.

I like Murray's game vs. Dumba's game.
Not attacking you.

Just wanted some clarification.

Why do people always assume the worst?



Last edited by I am the Liquor: 03-29-2012 at 03:17 PM.
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03-29-2012, 01:38 PM
  #944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly85 View Post
Simplicity and one dimensional play is not something I want out of a defenseman. I want a dynamic 2 way force. Doesn't Have to be flashy but should be an offensive guy who can play 200 feet. I don't care about size although if the player is bigger its an added plus.

Please don't tell me someone like Lidstrom plays the game with a beautiful, quiet simplicity either. He has been a 2 way cerebral force his entire career who was a ridiculously good offensive defenseman in his prime.

If the Oilers end up drafting a D, I hope they take Dumba. Way more potential there compared to Murray. Murray reminds me of Jay Bouwmeester.
Simplicity isn't code for one-dimensional. He doesn't take stupid risks to get the job done, he gets the job done by being smart and talented enough to make effective decisions with and without the puck.

Murray is more of a finished product than Dumba. Dumba was high-risk/high-reward last season in Red Deer, a guy with upside. Murray was arguably a top-3 defenseman in the WHL and a #1 guy on his team at 16 years of age. There's more offense with Dumba, but there's more chaos to coach out of him. I like Dumba, but when I see top pairing potential in both and Murray a lot closer to the finish line, I have to think he's the better prospect.

The Bouwmeester comparison might be fair, but what Bouwmeester lacks is intangible. He has every physical tool to be the absolute best defenseman in the National Hockey League and always has. I've never once heard Ryan Murray lacks heart.


Last edited by SK13: 03-29-2012 at 04:55 PM.
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03-29-2012, 01:39 PM
  #945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Not attacking you.

Just wanted some clarification.

Why do people always assume the worst?

When I first wrote it it came off wrong.

If I thought anything I said could convince you to jump ship, I'd go into depth.

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03-29-2012, 03:07 PM
  #946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Not attacking you.

Just wanted some clarification.

Why do people always assume the worst?

It feels like you attack a lot of the time.

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03-29-2012, 03:52 PM
  #947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Dumba is going to be better.

Arguably he is right now, and he is a year younger than Murray, with one less development year.
The other scenario, of course, is that he gets worse.

Increasing erratic play until he is taking boneheaded penalties, skating wildly out of position to rush the puck or make a hit, blindly firing pucks into his own teammates, pinching horribly and generally displaying horrific hockey sense.

Of course...the same could be true of Murray (although I would bet my pants against it).

I would inappropriately compare them to Landeskog and Huberdeau from last year's draft.

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03-29-2012, 06:22 PM
  #948
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Just thought I'd put up a list of how some of the top prospects are doing so far in the playoffs:

OHL
Nail Yakupov RW 4 2 3 5 -7
Alex Galchenyuk C 4 2 2 4 -6
Cody Ceci D 4 0 2 2 +3
Radek Faksa C 4 1 2 3 +1
Brendan Gaunce C 4 1 1 2 0
Matt Finn D 3 0 1 1 +1
Olli Maatta D 3 0 4 4 +1
Malcolm Subban 4 2.88 2 1 1 0.921
Tom Wilson RW 3 1 1 2 -1
Daniil Zharkov LW 4 1 1 2 -1
Andreas Athanasiou LW 3 0 0 0 +1
Scott Kosmachuk RW 3 2 3 5 +1
Nick Ebert D 3 0 2 2 -2
Scott Laughton C 4 2 3 5 0
Brady Vail C 3 0 0 0 -2
Gemel Smith C 4 1 2 3 +2

Tobias Rieder RW 4 5 4 9 +6


WHL
Ryan Murray D 4 3 2 5 -2
Griffin Reinhart D 3 1 0 1 +2
Derrick Pouliot D 3 0 2 2 -1
Dalton Thrower D 4 0 1 1 -4
Colton Sissons RW 3 1 1 2 -4
Damon Severson D 3 2 0 2 -6
Tim Bozon LW 4 4 0 4 -2


QMJHL
Mikhail Grigorenko C 3 1 6 7 +2
Martin Frk RW 4 4 1 5 +7
Raphaël Bussières LW 3 2 4 6 +1
Charles Hudon LW 4 3 2 5 +5

Nathan MacKinnon C 4 6 2 8 +7 beasting it in his pre-draft year

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03-29-2012, 06:26 PM
  #949
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Just thought I'd put up a list of how some of the top prospects are doing so far in the playoffs:

OHL
Nail Yakupov RW 4 2 3 5 -7
Alex Galchenyuk C 4 2 2 4 -6
Cody Ceci D 4 0 2 2 +3
Radek Faksa C 4 1 2 3 +1
Brendan Gaunce C 4 1 1 2 0
Matt Finn D 3 0 1 1 +1
Olli Maatta D 3 0 4 4 +1
Malcolm Subban 4 2.88 2 1 1 0.921
Tom Wilson RW 3 1 1 2 -1
Daniil Zharkov LW 4 1 1 2 -1
Andreas Athanasiou LW 3 0 0 0 +1
Scott Kosmachuk RW 3 2 3 5 +1
Nick Ebert D 3 0 2 2 -2
Scott Laughton C 4 2 3 5 0
Brady Vail C 3 0 0 0 -2
Gemel Smith C 4 1 2 3 +2

Tobias Rieder RW 4 5 4 9 +6


WHL
Ryan Murray D 4 3 2 5 -2
Griffin Reinhart D 3 1 0 1 +2
Derrick Pouliot D 3 0 2 2 -1
Dalton Thrower D 4 0 1 1 -4
Colton Sissons RW 3 1 1 2 -4
Damon Severson D 3 2 0 2 -6
Tim Bozon LW 4 4 0 4 -2


QMJHL
Mikhail Grigorenko C 3 1 6 7 +2
Martin Frk RW 4 4 1 5 +7
Raphaël Bussières LW 3 2 4 6 +1
Charles Hudon LW 4 3 2 5 +5

Nathan MacKinnon C 4 6 2 8 +7 beasting it in his pre-draft year

Wowza. What's going on with Rieder, lol.

MacKinnon and Grigorenko are killing it too.

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03-29-2012, 06:31 PM
  #950
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Glad to see Bozon, Laughton and Kosmachuck doing so well. I wouldn't be surprised to see 2 of these guys go in the first.

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