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The Official 2012 Draft Thread: Part V | "Fizzling for Rissling"

View Poll Results: With the 2nd overall pick, what would you choose?
Center (Grigorenko, Galchenyuk, etc.) 100 58.82%
Defenseman (Murray, Dumba, etc.) 70 41.18%
Voters: 170. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-15-2012, 11:08 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
Oh yeah you're right it doesn't. Must be counting on Jersey forfeiting their 1st which really makes sense. I'd honestly be surprised if they didn't. Knowing the league they will give them until they have to make their pick to decide if they are forfeiting it or not. Seems the rules behind it are pretty loose.
I thought it had to be this year or last. Is that wrong?

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03-16-2012, 02:28 AM
  #177
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I'm firmly Galchenyuk or Trouba at this point in time. I think those two will be the best forward and defenseman of the first round eventually.

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03-16-2012, 02:50 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by oilsp1ll View Post
I'm firmly Galchenyuk or Trouba at this point in time. I think those two will be the best forward and defenseman of the first round eventually.
Trouba? So your saying you dont mind waiting at least 5 years to see him with the Oilers? You do realize he is playing in the US College system, right? Think about how long it took Petry to not only get here, but finally make an impact, it will be the same with anybody else going through that system (4 years of school, then the AHL for a year or 2)...not what i want from this draft personally (he's a good player, dont get me wrong, just dont want to wait that long for a prospect).

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03-16-2012, 02:55 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by TimeForAnOilChange View Post
Trouba? So your saying you dont mind waiting at least 5 years to see him with the Oilers? You do realize he is playing in the US College system, right? Think about how long it took Petry to not only get here, but finally make an impact, it will be the same with anybody else going through that system (4 years of school, then the AHL for a year or 2)...not what i want from this draft personally (he's a good player, dont get me wrong, just dont want to wait that long for a prospect).
Or just one year of college like EJ, Suter, Leddy, Faulk, etc.

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03-16-2012, 04:51 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by ZugNugget View Post

TL;DR Version:

Pietrangelo - Murray
PPG: 0.883 - 0.681
Team points factored in on: 21.8% - 25%
Team winning percentage when out of the game: 38% - 19%
Team winning percentage when in the game: 65% - 36%
Team's GF/G when in compared to GF/G being out: 0.42 more - 0.80 more
Team's GA/G when in compared to GA/G being out: 0.14 less - 0.39 less
Interesting analysis, but the sample size of missing games is too small to be statistically significant. Not to mention there are too many other variables that factor.

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03-16-2012, 05:19 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by TimeForAnOilChange View Post
Trouba? So your saying you dont mind waiting at least 5 years to see him with the Oilers? You do realize he is playing in the US College system, right? Think about how long it took Petry to not only get here, but finally make an impact, it will be the same with anybody else going through that system (4 years of school, then the AHL for a year or 2)...not what i want from this draft personally (he's a good player, dont get me wrong, just dont want to wait that long for a prospect).
I think your views are very misguided.. He's playing like a man for the NTDP right now. Ryan Suter, who I liken his game to a lot, took one year at Wisconsin, one year in Milwaukee during the lockout and played the next year. 2 seasons between getting drafted and playing full-time in the NHL. Don't see how much faster Dumba or Reinhart would become effective at the NHL level, all 3 of those players are going to need some development. And I don't mind waiting for that development. Kris Letang's development just blew up last year in 2011 and he is finally achieving his potential, 6 years after his draft year. Defensemen take a while, nature of the position. Ryan Murray is the most NHL-ready and is going to be a good player, but even he won't be great and dependable next year. It's also extremely short-sighted to say you want results right now from the NHL draft.

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03-16-2012, 06:03 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by oilsp1ll View Post
I think your views are very misguided.. He's playing like a man for the NTDP right now. Ryan Suter, who I liken his game to a lot, took one year at Wisconsin, one year in Milwaukee during the lockout and played the next year. 2 seasons between getting drafted and playing full-time in the NHL. Don't see how much faster Dumba or Reinhart would become effective at the NHL level, all 3 of those players are going to need some development. And I don't mind waiting for that development. Kris Letang's development just blew up last year in 2011 and he is finally achieving his potential, 6 years after his draft year. Defensemen take a while, nature of the position. Ryan Murray is the most NHL-ready and is going to be a good player, but even he won't be great and dependable next year. It's also extremely short-sighted to say you want results right now from the NHL draft.
Defenseman are a little more risky than forwards, they take a bit longer to break in to the league and considerably longer to develop as players, beginning to peaking at 27 until about 32 years old. They also become UFAs at about the time they are peaking as players. NHL forwards usually break in a little younger, about half a year younger than defenseman, and they hit their optimal production earlier, peaking at about 25 or 26 years old. In total, you get more peak performance from a forward, than a defenseman before they become UFAs. That being said, the Oilers may look to a defenseman, depending on where they draft. If they draft early, I would be surprised if they chose a d-man, for the reasons stated above.

I'm not saying that you are wrong about Trouba, but I can't see the Oilers taking Trouba where they are positioned in the draft, as most people see Trouba going somewhere between 6th and 11th overall. Galchenyuk, Forsberg, Murray, Grigorenko, are more likely to be chosen over Trouba where the Oilers are likely picking.

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03-16-2012, 06:28 AM
  #183
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I'm not sure of which article it was on TSN's website after the Schultz trade but Tambo talked about him filling a role that needs filling plus that the trade was so that Schultzy could mentor our young Dmen, with this being said I was under the impression that he meant Tuebert, Plante, Marincin, Gernat, Klefbom and even Penaltyham as opposed to a Dman that gets drafted this year.

Frankly I see the team drafting Grigorenko and trading Samwise + for a later pick that would net us one of the young Dmen in this years draft.

Just my .02$ but it would fill a need for some more size in the top 6

p.s. I don't have anything against Gagner, hes got tons of heart and I really like the guy.


Last edited by dnicks17: 03-16-2012 at 01:39 PM. Reason: MOD edit: Unneeded.
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Old
03-16-2012, 01:49 PM
  #184
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I'm not saying that you are wrong about Trouba, but I can't see the Oilers taking Trouba where they are positioned in the draft, as most people see Trouba going somewhere between 6th and 11th overall. Galchenyuk, Forsberg, Murray, Grigorenko, are more likely to be chosen over Trouba where the Oilers are likely picking.
If we're picking at #3/4, I think Trouba is in the conversation for Stu. I don't think they'll be worried about his time at Michigan. Justin Faulk in Carolina is a good example of what his development path could look like.

1 year USNTDP -> 1 year college -> playing 23+ minutes in the NHL.

And Trouba is much more highly touted than Faulk was.

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03-16-2012, 02:23 PM
  #185
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Defenseman are a little more risky than forwards, they take a bit longer to break in to the league and considerably longer to develop as players, beginning to peaking at 27 until about 32 years old. They also become UFAs at about the time they are peaking as players. NHL forwards usually break in a little younger, about half a year younger than defenseman, and they hit their optimal production earlier, peaking at about 25 or 26 years old. In total, you get more peak performance from a forward, than a defenseman before they become UFAs. That being said, the Oilers may look to a defenseman, depending on where they draft. If they draft early, I would be surprised if they chose a d-man, for the reasons stated above.

I'm not saying that you are wrong about Trouba, but I can't see the Oilers taking Trouba where they are positioned in the draft, as most people see Trouba going somewhere between 6th and 11th overall. Galchenyuk, Forsberg, Murray, Grigorenko, are more likely to be chosen over Trouba where the Oilers are likely picking.
In that sense I agree, I don't think they will pick him. Stu like his Dub guys, it's not exactly a recipe for disaster but they won't go that route because the players are too close and the scouts would rather air on the side of comfort. I'm just saying I think him and Galchenyuk will be the best players from the draft class in 2021.

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03-16-2012, 02:36 PM
  #186
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Halmo(the guy who nailed Yakupov) was suspended for ten games today.

Here is the OHL suspension video:

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/v...6178fdbb1368e8

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03-16-2012, 02:43 PM
  #187
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Ugly hit, hope Yakupov is OK.

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03-16-2012, 02:56 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
If we're picking at #3/4, I think Trouba is in the conversation for Stu. I don't think they'll be worried about his time at Michigan. Justin Faulk in Carolina is a good example of what his development path could look like.

1 year USNTDP -> 1 year college -> playing 23+ minutes in the NHL.

And Trouba is much more highly touted than Faulk was.
Only thing concerning with Trouba is that he's American. I'd rather take one of the other 3 Canadian d-men available around the same pick. Let him go to an American team.

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03-16-2012, 02:57 PM
  #189
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Yeah makes me concerned that such a top notch player would even drive the middle like that. You can't cut east to west in the oppositions zone with your head down. If he can still play hockey after that I'm sure he will have learnt a valuable lesson. Let's just hope he makes a full recovery.

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03-16-2012, 02:59 PM
  #190
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Only thing concerning with Trouba is that he's American. I'd rather take one of the other 3 Canadian d-men available around the same pick. Let him go to an American team.
LOL, this is probably the dumbest statement ever. At least with Russian players there is a legit concern of them coming over or them coming over and being committed to playing hockey and not whining about money.

Not really sure where you're going with your american angle there.

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03-16-2012, 03:00 PM
  #191
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I thought it had to be this year or last. Is that wrong?
Not they have 3 seasons to decide. So if they keep it this year then it will definitely be next.

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03-16-2012, 03:06 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by ZugNugget View Post
Just to make a statistical comparison of their draft years without saying anything of their respective talents:

Pietrangelo: 13-40-53 in 60GP (0.883PPG). Niagara scored 243 goals in games he played (he missed 8 games), so he factored in on 21.8% of their points when in the lineup.

With Pietrangelo out of the lineup, Niagara went 3-5, winning 38% of their games compared to 39-21, winning 65% of their games, or, 1.71 times more games.

With Pietrangelo out, Niagara had 3.63GF/G and 3.75GA/G compared to 4.05GF/G and 3.61GA/G when he was playing. So, with Pietrangelo in the lineup, Niagara scored 0.42GF/G more and allowed 0.14GA/G fewer.

Murray: 9-21-30 in 44GP (0.681PPG). Everett has scored 120 goals in games he has played (he missed 26 games), so he has factored in on 25% of their points when in the lineup.

With Murray out of the lineup, Everett has gone 5-21, winning 19% of their games compared to 16-28, winning 36% of their games when he was in the lineup, or, 1.89 times more games.

With Murray out, Everett has had 2.04GF/G and 3.96GA/G compared to 2.84GF/G and 3.57GA/G when he was playing. So, with Murray in the lineup, Everett has scored 0.800 GF/G more and allowed 0.390GA/G fewer.

TL;DR Version:

Pietrangelo - Murray
PPG: 0.883 - 0.681
Team points factored in on: 21.8% - 25%
Team winning percentage when out of the game: 38% - 19%
Team winning percentage when in the game: 65% - 36%
Team's GF/G when in compared to GF/G being out: 0.42 more - 0.80 more
Team's GA/G when in compared to GA/G being out: 0.14 less - 0.39 less
Wow, thank you very much!

From these stats, I'm buying the comparison in terms of how they will affect their teams. What really stands out is .8 GF/G more

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03-16-2012, 03:37 PM
  #193
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LOL, this is probably the dumbest statement ever. At least with Russian players there is a legit concern of them coming over or them coming over and being committed to playing hockey and not whining about money.

Not really sure where you're going with your american angle there.
I just think if an American had the option he would probably resign down south as a UFA. All the d-men are close in skill level so why not take one of the guys that grew up in our backyard? If he was on another level then I'd have no problem with us taking him and passing over less talented guys.

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03-16-2012, 03:37 PM
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZugNugget View Post
Just to make a statistical comparison of their draft years without saying anything of their respective talents:

Pietrangelo: 13-40-53 in 60GP (0.883PPG). Niagara scored 243 goals in games he played (he missed 8 games), so he factored in on 21.8% of their points when in the lineup.

With Pietrangelo out of the lineup, Niagara went 3-5, winning 38% of their games compared to 39-21, winning 65% of their games, or, 1.71 times more games.

With Pietrangelo out, Niagara had 3.63GF/G and 3.75GA/G compared to 4.05GF/G and 3.61GA/G when he was playing. So, with Pietrangelo in the lineup, Niagara scored 0.42GF/G more and allowed 0.14GA/G fewer.

Murray: 9-21-30 in 44GP (0.681PPG). Everett has scored 120 goals in games he has played (he missed 26 games), so he has factored in on 25% of their points when in the lineup.

With Murray out of the lineup, Everett has gone 5-21, winning 19% of their games compared to 16-28, winning 36% of their games when he was in the lineup, or, 1.89 times more games.

With Murray out, Everett has had 2.04GF/G and 3.96GA/G compared to 2.84GF/G and 3.57GA/G when he was playing. So, with Murray in the lineup, Everett has scored 0.800 GF/G more and allowed 0.390GA/G fewer.

TL;DR Version:

Pietrangelo - Murray
PPG: 0.883 - 0.681
Team points factored in on: 21.8% - 25%
Team winning percentage when out of the game: 38% - 19%
Team winning percentage when in the game: 65% - 36%
Team's GF/G when in compared to GF/G being out: 0.42 more - 0.80 more
Team's GA/G when in compared to GA/G being out: 0.14 less - 0.39 less
From and Ice Dogs fan stand point, may I also add (for the PPG stat) that Pietrangelo had a much more offensive team playing with him than Murray Did now. Swift was a 100pt player, Caputi had 50 goals and 117 points, and Legein would have been up there if it wasn't for his injury. He also wasn't held accountable defensively very often in his draft year until the playoffs.

He would often rush with the puck, and would often turn it over in the process. He actually had several shorthanded breakaway goals... something that I doubt Murray has the luxury of doing.

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03-16-2012, 04:14 PM
  #195
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I just think if an American had the option he would probably resign down south as a UFA. All the d-men are close in skill level so why not take one of the guys that grew up in our backyard? If he was on another level then I'd have no problem with us taking him and passing over less talented guys.
There's also tons of Canadian guys that prefer to play in the States.

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03-16-2012, 04:35 PM
  #196
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Only thing concerning with Trouba is that he's American. I'd rather take one of the other 3 Canadian d-men available around the same pick. Let him go to an American team.
This is probably one of the most ridculous reasonings for not taking a player.
So i'm guessing that you would be upset if the Oilers signed Suter, eh?

There are plenty of Canadian players who would rather play in american markets, how quickly you forget CFP so it goes both ways.
There are also Russians who would rather play in Russia etc. etc.

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03-16-2012, 04:37 PM
  #197
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probably the biggest knock on trouba is the lack of elm trees in his neighbourhood growing up.

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03-16-2012, 05:35 PM
  #198
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I think your views are very misguided.. He's playing like a man for the NTDP right now. Ryan Suter, who I liken his game to a lot, took one year at Wisconsin, one year in Milwaukee during the lockout and played the next year. 2 seasons between getting drafted and playing full-time in the NHL. Don't see how much faster Dumba or Reinhart would become effective at the NHL level, all 3 of those players are going to need some development. And I don't mind waiting for that development. Kris Letang's development just blew up last year in 2011 and he is finally achieving his potential, 6 years after his draft year. Defensemen take a while, nature of the position. Ryan Murray is the most NHL-ready and is going to be a good player, but even he won't be great and dependable next year. It's also extremely short-sighted to say you want results right now from the NHL draft.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Buddha View Post
Defenseman are a little more risky than forwards, they take a bit longer to break in to the league and considerably longer to develop as players, beginning to peaking at 27 until about 32 years old. They also become UFAs at about the time they are peaking as players. NHL forwards usually break in a little younger, about half a year younger than defenseman, and they hit their optimal production earlier, peaking at about 25 or 26 years old. In total, you get more peak performance from a forward, than a defenseman before they become UFAs. That being said, the Oilers may look to a defenseman, depending on where they draft. If they draft early, I would be surprised if they chose a d-man, for the reasons stated above.

I'm not saying that you are wrong about Trouba, but I can't see the Oilers taking Trouba where they are positioned in the draft, as most people see Trouba going somewhere between 6th and 11th overall. Galchenyuk, Forsberg, Murray, Grigorenko, are more likely to be chosen over Trouba where the Oilers are likely picking.

And this is why with the 3 amigos we have up front we take a forward with this draft and trade for D or sign them. If we wait for three years before the D we draft this year to be ready then we miss some of the 3 amigos best years. Unless this D is ready to step in like Larson did this season, and I don't really see a guy who is that ready in this draft, go with the forward.

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03-16-2012, 06:22 PM
  #199
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I just think if an American had the option he would probably resign down south as a UFA. All the d-men are close in skill level so why not take one of the guys that grew up in our backyard? If he was on another level then I'd have no problem with us taking him and passing over less talented guys.
Yep and good ol Canadian boy Wayne just couldn't wait to get back to Canada after he was traded away to them damn Americans.

Not going to lie but you kind of made yourself look foolish with that comment.

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03-16-2012, 06:42 PM
  #200
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Seems like there is a lot less hype for this years draft, can it be blamed on that the top two players are Russians? What was it like when Ovy and Malkin were drafted?

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