How can you say we would be a lottery team if we had vokoun rather than theodore? That doesn't make any sense. The fact that we're winning more close games this year is not solely due to goaltending. You have to consider our overall upgrade in talent/depth at both the forward and defense position as well. I'm very pleased and surprised with how well Theodore is playing too, but you make it seem like goaltending was the problem in the past, which has now been solved. On the contrary, Vokoun was fantastic for us and goaltending was clearly the strength of our former team...This year, vokie has posted 2.51 gaa/ .917sp which is basically consistent with his career average. Theodore is a 2.40/ .920 this year........is that the difference between leading the division in March and being a lottery team?
Being a psychologist, I also feel the duty to note how much our new attitude and mentality is helping the team out. The change has been incredible; new players, new coach, new-ish owners/GM, even our new jersey colors etc has really legitimized our new attitude. Note that when DeBoer first arrived, he always preached changing the culture, that we needed to stop thinking of ourselves as losers and needed to expect ourselves to win. He knew it, just like Tallon and Dineen know it. The big difference is not because we changed goalies, but that everyone has actually bought-in to it all now, from the players to the coaches, to ownership, to the fans. Everyone has bought-in this year, psychologically, and the benefits are obvious. I guess my point is: If Vokoun were still here, he would be buying-in just like everyone else, and I bet he would be at the top of his game, just like Theodore is.
I'm glad to see Theodore doing well for you. I always liked him in Montreal and was one of the few who were sad to see him have to go. I've cheered for him everywhere he's been since leaving and its no different now.
Theodore's #'s, as good as they are, don't tell the whole story on how he's impacted our record.
Remember, we're a team with a -18 goal differential. The reason for that is that the team has failed to show up on numerous nights.
In Theodore's case, all you have to do is look at his gamelogs. 12/11 at NYR: 22 shots, 6 goals allowed in 40 minutes. 12/23 at BOS: 14 shots, 4 goals allowed in 20 minutes. 3/1 at WIN: 24 shots, 4 goals allowed in 44:35. 3/8 at PHI: 35 shots, 5 goals allowed in 59:55.
I'm not trying to make excuses, but those games are irrelevant.
The team showed up in none of those four games. The one against Boston, Clemmensen came in and gave up 4, himself. The one against Winnipeg, Clemmensen came in in the 3rd period and gave up 3.
Even with stellar goaltending, the team doesn't win any of those games. They were absolutely irrelevant. The team was outscored 26-1in those four games. That's right; our offense put up one goal in those four terrible games, and got shutout in the last 3 listed.
Those 4 games make Theodore's #'s look a lot worse just like our -18 differential makes our team look a lot worse than it is.
As solid as Theodore's #'s are, you take away those four games and all of the sudden, he's 21-9-7 with (I'm not going to calculate this, but approximately...) a save% of ~93 and a GAA in the very low 2's.
To put it simply, Theodore has now played in 45 games; in 41 of those games (that's 91.1% of his season), his numbers are as good as any goaltender in hockey this year.
That's the biggest reason for our success - Jose Theodore's consistency.
Are our forwards better? Yeah, I believe so. But the bottom line is, we don't score many goals.
And if our defense is better, it's definitely not much better. Garrison and Weaver (our two best defensive D-men) were here in the Vokoun years. Campbell is an offensive D-man who doesn't really have a tremendous impact on the defensive end. Then you have Jovo, Gudbranson, and Ellerby (I mean, c'mon). Kulikov as well, but he was here in the Vokoun years, too.
If you ask me, our defense (in terms of defensive defensemen) were better under Vokoun. Even that one year we sucked, we had Seidenberg and Leopold who were very steady before being traded.
Theodore bails this team out a lot more than perceived. He is our best player, and his own teammates have said it recently.
Again, Dineen's system is more up-tempo. He wants more offense and so does Tallon (this has been said). Despite wanting more offense, we're not really getting much more in terms of production. Goaltending is the biggest reason for the success.
While Theodore's #'s are similar to Vokie's, I'd say Theodore has been more...I guess, timely. His four terrible games, stats-wise, had more to do with the team than anything else.
And we've been much better with leads/getting points in close games this year. That's not all Theodore, but you can't totally ignore it.
THEO >>>>>>>>> Vokuon.
vokoun doesn't have the mental makeup to help this team.imo he was a problem here and is a distraction in wash.
We offered Vokoun double the money and triple the length of the contract Washington gave him and he ran off to a division rival who isn't even as good as we are this season. For that, I do not like him. But what your saying doesn't make sense. He is a quiet guy and was never a distraction. Plus, the teams he played for we're AWFUL. He gave the Panthers four very good seasons.
Gotta love Uncle Theo! This guy is really carrying us down the stretch. Kudos to the D guys for being much meaner in front of the net and not letting anyone near him. I knew Jovo was good for something...
Theodore's #'s, as good as they are, don't tell the whole story on how he's impacted our record.
Remember, we're a team with a -18 goal differential. The reason for that is that the team has failed to show up on numerous nights.
In Theodore's case, all you have to do is look at his gamelogs. 12/11 at NYR: 22 shots, 6 goals allowed in 40 minutes. 12/23 at BOS: 14 shots, 4 goals allowed in 20 minutes. 3/1 at WIN: 24 shots, 4 goals allowed in 44:35. 3/8 at PHI: 35 shots, 5 goals allowed in 59:55.
I'm not trying to make excuses, but those games are irrelevant.
The team showed up in none of those four games. The one against Boston, Clemmensen came in and gave up 4, himself. The one against Winnipeg, Clemmensen came in in the 3rd period and gave up 3.
Even with stellar goaltending, the team doesn't win any of those games. They were absolutely irrelevant. The team was outscored 26-1in those four games. That's right; our offense put up one goal in those four terrible games, and got shutout in the last 3 listed.
Those 4 games make Theodore's #'s look a lot worse just like our -18 differential makes our team look a lot worse than it is.
As solid as Theodore's #'s are, you take away those four games and all of the sudden, he's 21-9-7 with (I'm not going to calculate this, but approximately...) a save% of ~93 and a GAA in the very low 2's.
To put it simply, Theodore has now played in 45 games; in 41 of those games (that's 91.1% of his season), his numbers are as good as any goaltender in hockey this year.
That's the biggest reason for our success - Jose Theodore's consistency.
Are our forwards better? Yeah, I believe so. But the bottom line is, we don't score many goals.
And if our defense is better, it's definitely not much better. Garrison and Weaver (our two best defensive D-men) were here in the Vokoun years. Campbell is an offensive D-man who doesn't really have a tremendous impact on the defensive end. Then you have Jovo, Gudbranson, and Ellerby (I mean, c'mon). Kulikov as well, but he was here in the Vokoun years, too.
If you ask me, our defense (in terms of defensive defensemen) were better under Vokoun. Even that one year we sucked, we had Seidenberg and Leopold who were very steady before being traded.
Theodore bails this team out a lot more than perceived. He is our best player, and his own teammates have said it recently.
Again, Dineen's system is more up-tempo. He wants more offense and so does Tallon (this has been said). Despite wanting more offense, we're not really getting much more in terms of production. Goaltending is the biggest reason for the success.
While Theodore's #'s are similar to Vokie's, I'd say Theodore has been more...I guess, timely. His four terrible games, stats-wise, had more to do with the team than anything else.
And we've been much better with leads/getting points in close games this year. That's not all Theodore, but you can't totally ignore it.
No, believe me, I agree with you that Theodore has been the freakin' man for us. My post was more in defense of Vokoun than knocking Jose (which I hope it didn't come off that way at all.) I'm actually really happy we ended up with Theodore, but I still believe we'd be in similar standing if Vokoun was our goalie, certainly not a lotto team. That's just silly.
Edit: And by "improved forwards" I wasnt just talking about our goal-scoring, but the checking lines as well. Theyve been excellent and I believe theyre a big factor regarding our improvement in holding late leads
When Theodore signed here, I was expecting some decent goaltending, splitting a bunch of time with Clemmer/Markstrom. But he's really proved me wrong, he's been a delight to watch. I hope he can continue his strong play for the rest of the season and playoffs.
I was never a fan of Theo, and had a bit of a hard time understanding the move to bring him in at this point in his career. I set my expectations fairly low, and was going to give him more leeway than Vokoun who was the better goalie.
Well... has he ever proven me wrong! He never seems to have an off night, let alone letting in a bad goal every couple games when Vokoun was having his sub par stretches with us.
I always considered Theo overrated in a big market like Montreal, or playing for a great team like Washington to gloss over his mistakes. In Minnesota and Colorado, he seemed to be average at best or just pushing above that label where his team could not get over the hump. The weather or something must be doing his body well in Florida (he said at the beginning of the season that was one of the main reasons he chose this market).
I was never a fan of Theo, and had a bit of a hard time understanding the move to bring him in at this point in his career. I set my expectations fairly low, and was going to give him more leeway than Vokoun who was the better goalie.
Well... has he ever proven me wrong! He never seems to have an off night, let alone letting in a bad goal every couple games when Vokoun was having his sub par stretches with us.
I always considered Theo overrated in a big market like Montreal, or playing for a great team like Washington to gloss over his mistakes. In Minnesota and Colorado, he seemed to be average at best or just pushing above that label where his team could not get over the hump. The weather or something must be doing his body well in Florida (he said at the beginning of the season that was one of the main reasons he chose this market).
The last paragraph you wrote was awful. None of the points you made about Theodore were correct. Pretty obvious you never followed him.
The last paragraph you wrote was awful. None of the points you made about Theodore were correct. Pretty obvious you never followed him.
I follow the league and the players. I did not follow Theo as close as my own team goaltenders, but I've seen him enough on major outlets in Canada over the years. I'm giving my take on a guy, where you are coming from more of a fanboy viewpoint. It is a subjective statement like mentioned above. To call it trash is wrong of you.
I follow the league and the players. I did not follow Theo as close as my own team goaltenders, but I've seen him enough on major outlets in Canada over the years. I'm giving my take on a guy, where you are coming from more of a fanboy viewpoint. It is a subjective statement like mentioned above. To call it trash is wrong of you.
I want to apologize Canadian Panther Fan. I used poor choice of vocab when I made that post. I am a complete know it all when it comes to goalies because goaltenders are my biggest joy in life. And when it comes to Theodore, I am more than just a fanboy. Lol. I'm pretty used to havin to fight for Theodore's name after his stay in Colorado which is why I come off that way.
I want to apologize Canadian Panther Fan. I used poor choice of vocab when I made that post. I am a complete know it all when it comes to goalies because goaltenders are my biggest joy in life. And when it comes to Theodore, I am more than just a fanboy. Lol. I'm pretty used to havin to fight for Theodore's name after his stay in Colorado which is why I come off that way.
