Is that not what we said a few years ago. I will just substitute two names.
Hire a new coach fire Mactavish, and get rid of Moreau and we will see better results.
Didn't happen. Now we have different scapegoats to blame.
Not a huge Renney fan but it has to start with the top. Fire Tambo/Lowe.
I'm exactly the opposite. I'm not a huge Tambellini fan but i feel that the biggest issues start with coaching and leadership so fire Renney, give the C to a younger, better player like Smid and eventually Hall when he's ready.
Moreau=Horcoff
Mact=Renney
Moreau and Horcoff were/are both eroding veterans with poor leadership skills and lack accountability.
MacT and Renney are basically mirror images of each other, they coach the same passive not to lose style and they show preferential treatment to particular veteran players and don't cater to the strengths of the younger players so what i see is a recycling of the same type of leadership and philosophies and that needs to change first and foremost.
As i said before, hand over the leadership duties to a younger, more influential player that can lead by their on ice example and hire a coach who can implement a system that caters to the strengths of the personnel and hold players (all players including veterans) accountable for lackluster play and you will be shocked at how different the on ice product will look.
I think that we need to give Tambellini another draft, offseason and trade deadline to properly assess the job he is doing because thus far, he is pretty much doing as planned but now, the real work begins. Lets see what he's got.
Really a terrible team, the left wing depth is horrible. Jones is a 4th liner, Hordichuk less than that, smyth replaced Penner in body and spirit. PVR regressing so much this year has really hurt the team, but at the same time it's baffling that he got a minimal amount of opportunity on one of those top 2 lines considering what the team has to work with.
I'm exactly the opposite. I'm not a huge Tambellini fan but i feel that the biggest issues start with coaching and leadership so fire Renney, give the C to a younger, better player like Smid and eventually Hall when he's ready.
Moreau=Horcoff
Mact=Renney
Moreau and Horcoff were/are both eroding veterans with poor leadership skills and lack accountability.
MacT and Renney are basically mirror images of each other, they coach the same passive not to lose style and they show preferential treatment to particular veteran players and don't cater to the strengths of the younger players so what i see is a recycling of the same type of leadership and philosophies and that needs to change first and foremost.
As i said before, hand over the leadership duties to a younger, more influential player that can lead by their on ice example and hire a coach who can implement a system that caters to the strengths of the personnel and hold players (all players including veterans) accountable for lackluster play and you will be shocked at how different the on ice product will look.
I think that we need to give Tambellini another draft, offseason and trade deadline to properly assess the job he is doing because thus far, he is pretty much doing as planned but now, the real work begins. Lets see what he's got.
Completely disagree.
How many coaches does this team need before we as a fanbase clue in to the fact that the problem isn't really or only coaching but the management team picking the players. (not talking about amateur scouting as that has been stellar)
It has been 3 now. I really don't think a 4th is going to make a hell of a lot of difference.
As I said, I have no problem getting rid of Renney, but all that would mean is that after about 6 months to a year, the fanbase will want that coach fired too.
Until you get to the root of the problem it will never be fixed.
How many coaches does this team need before we as a fanbase clue in to the fact that the problem isn't really or only coaching but the management team picking the players. (not talking about amateur scouting as that has been stellar)
It has been 3 now. I really don't think a 4th is going to make a hell of a lot of difference.
As I said, I have no problem getting rid of Renney, but all that would mean is that after about 6 months to a year, the fanbase will want that coach fired too.
Until you get to the root of the problem it will never be fixed.
Even if it is the coach who is the problem, who has been hiring all these wrong guys?
I'm exactly the opposite. I'm not a huge Tambellini fan but i feel that it starts with coaching and leadership so fire Renney, give the C to a younger, better player like Smid and eventually Hall when he's ready.
Moreau=Horcoff
Mact=Renney
Moreau and Horcoff were/are both eroding veterans with poor leadership skills and lack accountability.
MacT and Renney are basically mirror images of each other, they coach the same passive not to lose style and they show preferential treatment to particular veteran players and don't cater to the strengths of the younger players so what i see is a recycling of the same type of leadership and philosophies and that needs to change first and foremost.
As i said before, hand over the leadership duties to a younger, more influential player that can lead by their on ice example and hire a coach who can implement a system that caters to the strengths of the personnel and hold players (all players including veterans) accountable for lackluster play and you will be shocked at how different the on ice product will look.
So you are suggesting that a better leader and a new coach are going to compensate for the lack of grit in the top 9? They are going to improve the deplorable state of the defence and goaltending? They are going to make the poor veterans play good enough to the point where an upgrade isn't required?
This roster is a mess and the changes you are proposing will not addresses the roster in any meaningful way.
Coaching and leadership re-evaluation need to come after the major issues are addressed because then you are getting a more tangible read on things.
The proof is in the fact that the coach has changed....the captain has changed and still nothing has improved.
The only constant has been Tambo and the garbage roster he provides.
Well if Jones has been working hard I guess it's okay to let him have a shot, but I don't get what the point of having guys like Omark on the roster is if we're just gonna play them with offensive scrubs.
RNH-Ebs need a grinder, so much is obvious from the last stint of games and that was why Renney tried Petrell there. Now it's Jones, maybe it'll be Eager next. Hopefully they'll find chemistry with one of them.
How many coaches does this team need before we as a fanbase clue in to the fact that the problem isn't really or only coaching but the management team picking the players. (not talking about amateur scouting as that has been stellar)
It has been 3 now. I really don't think a 4th is going to make a hell of a lot of difference.
As I said, I have no problem getting rid of Renney, but all that would mean is that after about 6 months to a year, the fanbase will want that coach fired too.
Until you get to the root of the problem it will never be fixed.
As i said before, it's different coaches but the same exact philosophy. Quinn couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag at this point in his career.
You can also say that it's Tambellini's fault for hiring the wrong coaches so i'll give you that but until a new fresh coach with different ideas is brought in, nothing will ever change. The onus falls on Tambellini to make the appropriate changes.
I'd say that if we are having this same conversation by this time next year, then sweeping changes will need to be made, you will get no argument from me but i feel that as of now, that coaching and veteran leadership are the two biggest problems.
It's an attitude problem moreso than a personnel problem IMO.
The personnel needs upgrading obviously but the attitude needs to change first and foremost.
RNH-Ebs need a grinder, so much is obvious from the last stint of games and that was why Renney tried Petrell there. Now it's Jones, maybe it'll be Eager next. Hopefully they'll find chemistry with one of them.
Hopkins and Ebs should be able to make ANYONE get a goal. I would love Eager with them, he has the speed to keep up.
So you are suggesting that a better leader and a new coach are going to compensate for the lack of grit in the top 9? They are going to improve the deplorable state of the defence and goaltending? They are going to make the poor veterans play good enough to the point where an upgrade isn't required?
This roster is a mess and the changes you are proposing will not addresses the roster in any meaningful way.
Coaching and leadership re-evaluation need to come after the major issues are addressed because then you are getting a more tangible read on things.
The proof is in the fact that the coach has changed....the captain has changed and still nothing has improved.
The only constant has been Tambo and the garbage roster he provides.
As i said before, the coaching and captainship hasn't changed, only the names have.
MacRenney is RenT
thecaptainethanhorcoff is thecaptainshawnmoreau
Hopkins and Ebs should be able to make ANYONE get a goal. I would love Eager with them, he has the speed to keep up.
hmmm, no sarcasm smiley, checks once, checks twice..
Eager:
Amotivational, stupid, inconsistent, can't pass the puck to save his life, can't handle the puck for more than 5 secs without looking like the second coming of JFJ, has no sense of where to be on the ice, has always been considered borderline uncoachable, basically an Avery school whackjob except far less interesting, and you would put this guy with RNH and Eberle.
Amotivational, stupid, inconsistent, can't pass the puck to save his life, can't handle the puck for more than 5 secs without looking like the second coming of JFJ, has no sense of where to be on the ice, has always been considered borderline uncoachable, basically an Avery school whackjob except far less interesting, and you would put this guy with RNH and Eberle.
True enough as i mentioned in my reply to HA101.
It's now time for Tambellini to make the tough decisions, playtime is over. We'll see.
The time for Tambo to make the tough decisions has passed IMO.
Seriously...if I thought a coaching change would be the difference maker I would be all over it.
Unfortunately this roster is so full of holes I don't think its fair to judge the coach until he has something he can actually work with.
It should be yours, or any of the past coaches that just said "pass" on this player. I don't know that even a few clubs in the NHL were interested in taking a look at Ben this year. Maybe some more for an AHL affiliate.
Not only is he clueless when it comes to any notion of system play, he often looks like a player thats gone half seasons without scoring a goal. He has a breakaway last night and he misses the net. This is a guy thats lucky to score 10 goals in a year, but cost you a lot more.
hmmm, no sarcasm smiley, checks once, checks twice..
Eager:
Amotivational, stupid, inconsistent, can't pass the puck to save his life, can't handle the puck for more than 5 secs without looking like the second coming of JFJ, has no sense of where to be on the ice, has always been considered borderline uncoachable, basically an Avery school whackjob except far less interesting, and you would put this guy with RNH and Eberle.
holy smokes batman.
I tend to agree with your assessment of Eager... Buuuuuut, I bet my pants he'll get the chance if Jones isn't able to click with RNH-Ebs.
It should be yours, or any of the past coaches that just said "pass" on this player. I don't know that even a few clubs in the NHL were interested in taking a look at Ben this year. Maybe some more for an AHL affiliate.
Not only is he clueless when it comes to any notion of system play, he often looks like a player thats gone half seasons without scoring a goal. He has a breakaway last night and he misses the net. This is a guy thats lucky to score 10 goals in a year, but cost you a lot more.
As a fan of this team I would really like to believe that Management is aware of the teams needs but where is the evidence to support that?
Tambo is responsible for acquiring Khabby/Dubnyk combo...so he forces Renneys hand with this limited goaltending duo.
Tambo had to know last summer that the top 9 (more specifically the top 6) needed grit and size...he does nothing.
Tambo also had to know that the defence was garbage so what does he do? He signs Potter and Barker and then tells the world that he thinks Barker is a #2 dman for this team. He knew that Whitney had missed most of the last 2 seasons and he would not be as effective this season yet Barker and Potter was all he does to bolster the defence.
Inexcusable.
I see little to nothing that illustrates that Tambo either knows what the holes are or has the boulders to make the necessary changes.
For the most part I agree with what you've been saying in this thread. I also want to stress that I'm not a Tambo fan, I just don't know what we expect him to do.
-We can't trade from a position of strength when there is no position of strength.
-We can't offer long term or high cap hit contracts that will jeopardize future signings of the core players.
-There hasn't been a lot of value in the UFA market lately.
-Our picks are too high for offer sheets.
-We're still waiting for prospects to develop.
-We're not quite ready to pull the plug on a few guys who still may develop further.
-Big free agent signings are usually high risk/high reward affairs, and when nurturing out future I thinks it's best to be conservative now.
That pretty much leaves you roaming the scrap heap looking for diamonds in the rough, picking up low risk guys like Barker and Potter. Yep, Barker sucks and I really couldn't tell you why we extended Potter, but I wouldn't want Wizniewski's contract. Tambo's best moves have probably been the ones he hasn't made.
I would say that the Schultz trade is an example of management's awareness of team needs. Now, I'm not sure that I like the trade because I question whether Schultz possesses the overall value to have given up Gilbert for him. However, Schultz' skill set is closer to what this team is lacking: a guy who can reliably hold it down in the d-zone.
Belanger and Eager have not lived up to expectation, but their supposed skill sets are what this team needed/still needs.
Hemsky's year has been abject failure but at least we've seen him score 20. But that said people are wondering why Gagner isn't producing with Hemsky and Omark with a combined 6 goals among them?
Hemsky needs to dial it up bigtime. So does Sam but at least he's done something this year.
I have outlined my issues with the team over and over...the only 2 people that have an issue with this are you and nabob.
If you have something to say to me then have the balls to quote me or better yet send me a PM and keep this nonsense out of the thread.
Otherwise run along and play with nabob.
Alright, I guess this is the "balls" of clicking the quote button... you haven't explained anything other than Tambo has failed and need to make moves.
Nabob asks what the plan was and you keep saying that. You don't provide WHO would be a better replacement or not. You look at what's wrong but offer absolutely no alternative. Better yet, you mention the players he brings in, but offer again, no alternative.
For the most part I agree with what you've been saying in this thread. I also want to stress that I'm not a Tambo fan, I just don't know what we expect him to do.
-We can't trade from a position of strength when there is no position of strength.
-We can't offer long term or high cap hit contracts that will jeopardize future signings of the core players.
-There hasn't been a lot of value in the UFA market lately.
-Our picks are too high for offer sheets.
-We're still waiting for prospects to develop.
-We're not quite ready to pull the plug on a few guys who still may develop further.
-Big free agent signings are usually high risk/high reward affairs, and when nurturing out future I thinks it's best to be conservative now.
That pretty much leaves you roaming the scrap heap looking for diamonds in the rough, picking up low risk guys like Barker and Potter. Yep, Barker sucks and I really couldn't tell you why we extended Potter, but I wouldn't want Wizniewski's contract. Tambo's best moves have probably been the ones he hasn't made.
You mean the moves like trying to send Penner, Cogliano and Smid to Ottawa for Heatly? Just imagine where this team would be if that deal would have gone through. How about sending Brodziak packing for nothing and then spending the next 3 years trying to find a replacement. Tambo signs Khabby and creats an issue with goaltending. Part of the issue I have with Tambo is that he creates a hole and then scrambles to fill it so in essence the core issues never get addressed. The team is never able to fill in the gaps to help these high draft picks become a successful part of a successful team.
Quote:
I would say that the Schultz trade is an example of management's awareness of team needs. Now, I'm not sure that I like the trade because I question whether Schultz possesses the overall value to have given up Gilbert for him. However, Schultz' skill set is closer to what this team is lacking: a guy who can reliably hold it down in the d-zone.
Belanger and Eager have not lived up to expectation, but their supposed skill sets are what this team needed/still needs.
I like Schultz...he is a good dman and he is something this team needs. Having said that the defence is something Tambo needed to address last summer.
I liked the belanger signing but why did he deal Brodziak and create the need for Belanger in the first place. Brodziak is a better cheaper player.
Its like 1 step back and 1/2 a step forward all the time.
At some point Tambo has to take a look at the excess (picks and prospects) and use that excess to build a better team. It can't continue always being about the future...at some point the present has to become a priority.
For the most part I agree with what you've been saying in this thread. I also want to stress that I'm not a Tambo fan, I just don't know what we expect him to do.
-We can't trade from a position of strength when there is no position of strength.
-We can't offer long term or high cap hit contracts that will jeopardize future signings of the core players.
-There hasn't been a lot of value in the UFA market lately.
-Our picks are too high for offer sheets.
-We're still waiting for prospects to develop.
-We're not quite ready to pull the plug on a few guys who still may develop further.
-Big free agent signings are usually high risk/high reward affairs, and when nurturing out future I thinks it's best to be conservative now.
That pretty much leaves you roaming the scrap heap looking for diamonds in the rough, picking up low risk guys like Barker and Potter. Yep, Barker sucks and I really couldn't tell you why we extended Potter, but I wouldn't want Wizniewski's contract. Tambo's best moves have probably been the ones he hasn't made.
I would say that the Schultz trade is an example of management's awareness of team needs. Now, I'm not sure that I like the trade because I question whether Schultz possesses the overall value to have given up Gilbert for him. However, Schultz' skill set is closer to what this team is lacking: a guy who can reliably hold it down in the d-zone.
Belanger and Eager have not lived up to expectation, but their supposed skill sets are what this team needed/still needs.
Its not only the recruiting its the just plain letting people walk that happens so often with this org. Where they have bird in hand, but always think of getting better, and get **** instead.
to wit:
-Reasoner and Brodziak gone for nothing. Dally about for two years pretending we don't desperately need Center help then finally sign Belanger who is seriously worse than either of the above and costs more.
-Let Torres walk for Brule. A stupid move at the time that would cost the club and I called it here at the time. Brule is as close to guaranteed bust as there is. We give up a physical guy who can really hit and intimidate opponents and somebody who can still score 20 goals with the right minutes for somebody we hoped would do something.
-Glencross. Nuff said, give up this player and we're ever since trying to fill up our weaksauce bottomsix with players that either don't care, or shouldn't be in the NHL, or aren't ready for primetime. Glencross is more effective than anything we've had since in his capacity. It was important though to save 100K extra he was asking..
-Vandermeer. What exactly was wrong with his play last year that Sutton, and Barker corrected? Look, even if Vandy is deemed bottom pairing he's lightyears better than suffering more games of Peckham Barker, or looking at Potters EV minutes.
-Finally, the best addition this year, Smyth, ends up being the player that pretty much had to insist his way into the lineup and that the org seemingly didn't want. Fell into our lap and the team seemed very much interested in saying no. While saying yes to half a dozen other recruits that have been junk.
Unfortunately the list could go on but you get the idea. Its as much about accruing and retaining reasonable players as much as it is recruiting new ones.
Last edited by Replacement: 03-13-2012 at 04:05 PM.
