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Kessel steamed about losing

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Old
03-13-2012, 06:43 AM
  #51
Espher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
So if you were the coach please name one thing off of that list you would not want your players doing?
One thing I would not want my players doing:

a) Things my players shouldn't be doing.

P.S. Kessel does backcheck, so there's one thing you can take off your list. The rest likely won't happen because he's a speed + finesse player who plays an offence-first game. Unless you want to completely change the type of player that Phil Kessel is, both psychologically and in how he actually plays the game on the ice, don't expect him to perform the same functions as a third/fourth-line style grinder. Unlike some forwards that I'm sure you'll cherry-pick name drop, he wasn't groomed/developed that way and it's not his style, and I wouldn't expect to see him try to block shots unless we're actually in the playoffs.

As for the plus/minus, that comes with the team style. The team was playing run-and-gun, which leads to chances the other way, and since Kessel was normally the guy carrying the puck and taking the shot, he'd be the one not in the play on those chances back. Since a two-on-one for about thirty games was seemingly a guaranteed goal against, I'm sure that didn't help his numbers.

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03-13-2012, 06:48 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorityRules View Post
Are you saying Kessel's goals don't win games?
Read my post again. No need to explain it.

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03-13-2012, 06:52 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Score goals that win games, I'm not blaming him for the loss to Philly, but Giroux scored, our guy didn't. Got to find ways to get it done, no buts or ifs. Show by action, be harder on Laich when he waltzed in on Gus in Washington for instance, both ends of the ice. It's Not too much to ask.
Bang on.... I could care less if this guy led the league by 20 goals. If he doesn't help prevent any then were just treading water

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03-13-2012, 06:53 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
What would you expect him to say during an interview....I really do not mind losing as I get to start my vacation that much sooner.

I did not read in the article were he took any responsibility for the way that the team is playing currently.
^ This. And the guy who mentioned sulking. That's what I see.

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03-13-2012, 06:56 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Read my post again. No need to explain it.
I've read it several times now. You bolded the "win games" part so I assume you want Kessel to pick and choose when he scores his goals so that they are goals that win games. He'd be a pretty rare breed of hockey player if he could do that.
You mention both ends of the ice and I see Kessel back checking on a regular basis. So what's the problem? You expecting him to be a defensive beast? Not ever going to happen.
I'd recommend you either get behind what he does now or be disappointed forever with his game.

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03-13-2012, 07:01 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Score goals that win games, I'm not blaming him for the loss to Philly, but Giroux scored, our guy didn't. Got to find ways to get it done, no buts or ifs. Show by action, be harder on Laich when he waltzed in on Gus in Washington for instance, both ends of the ice. It's Not too much to ask.
not too much to ask. just be clutch 24/7.

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03-13-2012, 07:02 AM
  #57
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He does have a point. Kessel only has five game-winning goals, most among Leaf players, putting him in a 21-way tie for 22nd place in the league (3 have 10, 3 have 8, 5 have 7, and 10 have 6).

He's probably been on the ice and directly responsible for 18 or 20 GLG. I have no data to back this up, it's just pure conjecture, but that's okay.

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03-13-2012, 07:19 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Espher View Post
He does have a point. Kessel only has five game-winning goals, most among Leaf players, putting him in a 21-way tie for 22nd place in the league (3 have 10, 3 have 8, 5 have 7, and 10 have 6).

He's probably been on the ice and directly responsible for 18 or 20 GLG. I have no data to back this up, it's just pure conjecture, but that's okay.
So to sum it up:

Kessel should be abrasive like Clark, a 2 way forward like Gilmour and clutch like Sundin. Am I missing anything?

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03-13-2012, 07:25 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorityRules View Post
So to sum it up:

Kessel should be abrasive like Clark, a 2 way forward like Gilmour and clutch like Sundin. Am I missing anything?
I was hoping more along the lines of a Stevie Y. I remember hearing alot of the same complaints about him when he was young and actualy had an attitude but then...

"When Scotty Bowman took over as coach in 1993, Yzerman initially chafed under Bowman's stern coaching style. Bowman, for his part, felt that Yzerman was not concentrating enough on defense; Bowman had long expected his forwards to be good back-checkers as well. Relations between the two became so strained that at one point, the Red Wings seriously considered trading him to the Montreal Canadiens in 1994 for Mathieu Schnieder and a 1st Round Pick at the request of Jacques Demers under whom Yzerman previously played for . However, Yzerman gradually became a better defender, and is now considered one of the best two-way forwards in the history of the game."

So maybe Carlyle might be good for Kessel in the long run. He may not put up league leading numbers but do the things that it takes to win hockey games instead.

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03-13-2012, 07:27 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMLblue75 View Post
not often does this guy actually express himself clearly in interviews.. good to see he's got the right mindstate (assuming he means what he says)
Seems like he needs to be in a 1on1, no camera to really get him talking.

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Old
03-13-2012, 07:54 AM
  #61
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See ya after two more seasons, Phil. Burke's built a real winner here

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03-13-2012, 08:01 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by ForzaZuffa View Post
See ya after two more seasons, Phil. Burke's built a real winner here
All it takes is one good season and a decent offer to keep him here. Look at Rick Nash who signed with Columbus after that one stellar year where Steve Mason won Rookie of the Year and Derick Brassard looked poised to become the top center he was thought to be. We all know how badly Nash is now kicking himself, though.

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03-13-2012, 08:02 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorityRules View Post
I've read it several times now. You bolded the "win games" part so I assume you want Kessel to pick and choose when he scores his goals so that they are goals that win games. He'd be a pretty rare breed of hockey player if he could do that.
You mention both ends of the ice and I see Kessel back checking on a regular basis. So what's the problem? You expecting him to be a defensive beast? Not ever going to happen.
I'd recommend you either get behind what he does now or be disappointed forever with his game.
Here is what I meant, yes Phil scores important goals, but could he do better? Yes. Many here have stated they wouldn't trade Kessel straight up for Nash so the expectations for him must be higher for them than I have for him. In essence we should agree on this point.

When I think of great players, I think of players that score at opportune times. Play their best games against the toughest competition. Gilmour, Clark, Roberts and Sundin all fit the bill. Kessel not as much, cite games against Boston and a huge game against Philly on Sat.

Timing is everything, Crosby scored the OT winner against USA. Some players have that timing. Now I would never put Phil in the class of Sid, but it's an illustration when we need a goal to win, tie, or a checking assigment that is the difference between winning and losing, Kessel isn't there yet. Again watching Giroux deliver and our guy not in the shootout, it sort of speaks how the season has gone for us. Close but nothing to show for it.

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Old
03-13-2012, 08:05 AM
  #64
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How much does anyone wanna bet that Kessel doesn't resign and goes to July first in 2 seasons?

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03-13-2012, 08:07 AM
  #65
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I dont mean to defend Kessel, but I would be yawning too if I had to watch this team play every game.

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03-13-2012, 08:10 AM
  #66
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Did I fall asleep for a decade and the term "steamed" now means "perfectly contented"?

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03-13-2012, 08:12 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Little things win hockey games....when you go for a skate after you shot the puck at the goalie ....and the puck is heading towards your net and you are seen taking the long route back ...like behind the oppositions net...what is a fan left to think.

When the puck gets sent up the wall and you skate out to the point with your body on the D -mans body giving them a clear lane to shoot the puck....what does that tell you. He goes out to the point making him self skinny hoping the puck does not hit him. He does not engage in puck battles unless you call fishing with your stick getting involved in a puck battle. He almost always is on the Offensive side of the puck and not on the defensive side of the puck when there is a puck battle.

I know we did not trade for Kessel to be a physical force, but going for a skate when the puck is heading south towards your goal and coasting back is not going to endear you to the fans.
I thought this thread was about Kessel, not Kadri.

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Old
03-13-2012, 08:12 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by vezna View Post
"I don't care if I score or get points, we don't win," he stated in some frustration. "It doesn't matter. What do you play the game for? You play to win the game. You play to win and have fun and right now nothing's happening for us."

http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/blogs/jonas_siegel/?id=390185

for people who doesn't think he plays with heart
"Playing with heart" never involves lip service, it involves action.

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Old
03-13-2012, 08:13 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Here is what I meant, yes Phil scores important goals, but could he do better? Yes. Many here have stated they wouldn't trade Kessel straight up for Nash so the expectations for him must be higher for them than I have for him. In essence we should agree on this point.

When I think of great players, I think of players that score at opportune times. Play their best games against the toughest competition. Gilmour, Clark, Roberts and Sundin all fit the bill. Kessel not as much, cite games against Boston and a huge game against Philly on Sat.

Timing is everything, Crosby scored the OT winner against USA. Some players have that timing. Now I would never put Phil in the class of Sid, but it's an illustration when we need a goal to win, tie, or a checking assigment that is the difference between winning and losing, Kessel isn't there yet. Again watching Giroux deliver and our guy not in the shootout, it sort of speaks how the season has gone for us. Close but nothing to show for it.
Not many guys with Kessel's skill set are as 'clutch' as you seem to think. Spezza has all of 2 game winning goals, Kovalchuk has 4, and Marian Gaborik has 7. Mind you, you're also comparing Kessel to guys who were well into their prime here as Leafs and Kessel is still a few years out of that and a whole career behind them as he is still 24 years old.

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03-13-2012, 08:22 AM
  #70
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Kessel has led the Leafs in game winners since he came here and tied for 2nd most at 6 in his last year for the Bruins, 1 less than first.

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03-13-2012, 08:22 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anderson3133 View Post
Not many guys with Kessel's skill set are as 'clutch' as you seem to think. Spezza has all of 2 game winning goals, Kovalchuk has 4, and Marian Gaborik has 7. Mind you, you're also comparing Kessel to guys who were well into their prime here as Leafs and Kessel is still a few years out of that and a whole career behind them as he is still 24 years old.
I see improvement in Kessel this year, playmaking for one example, some ethusiasm for backchecking.

But there are a lot of things that still linger in his game. He gets down and sulks, his body language is not condusive to positive results. You may laugh but body language and confidence are key factors to performance.

I'm not even talking about the yawn, which was played up. But it does tell you about Phil's personality.

Instead of making excuses as fans, we seem to be the leaders of this in the NHL, why don't we constructively critique this Leafs team? I don't see it for Phil and Dion. They may be 24 and 26, but we have players leaders that have won cups at younger ages, Crosby, Staal, Toews. That no excuse, the he is only 24 excuse has got to stop. He's a 6 year pro and players much younger have already proven their mettle.

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Old
03-13-2012, 08:33 AM
  #72
James Duthie
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Lol people are blaming Kessel, blame the ****ing GM if you want to, blame the damn ****** players Ron and Randy had to work with, like **** Connolly, Lombardi, Armstrong all nothing but waste of space, time and money, getting paid millions yet can't even ****ing clear out a puck or ****ing score or finish a play. Not to mention our defense who continue to giveaway the puck or just stare and watch as they let there goalie get scored upon, Dion Phaneuf needs ****ing hockey school, can't even shoot a puck constantly at the freaking net always wide.

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03-13-2012, 08:40 AM
  #73
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I bet PK would have more game winners if the Leafs goalies stopped more shots. I could be wrong.

IMO he's developed his game more this year, but yes moving aside to let Chara skate down the middle of the ice was a bit distasteful. Obviously, he'd have been destroyed, but he probably had the best chance as winger to pick up someone coming down the middle.

I think he is afraid of being injured, and that's why he'll give-way on the boards. I suspect the shoulder surgery has had a long term affect on his courage.

Mind you this team, until Carlyle showed up, spent many a nights in the air, with flyby's by most of the forwards on a nightly basis. It will be nice to see some aggressive play against the oppositioin instead of from the opposition on a nightly basis. I don't expect PK to ever be handing out the hits, but I certainly wouldn't mind if his teammates softened up the other team for a change.

Kessel may be one of the smallest 6', 202 lbs. forward I've seen out there. He looks much smaller.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA3LN_8hjM8.

Vaive and Ludzik on collapse, and Phaneuf.
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Old
03-13-2012, 08:42 AM
  #74
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Kessel Steaming Amid Leafs' Stunning Collapse

Unfortunate choice of words by the headline writer.

Something else steams, especially when lying on the ice.

Or maybe that word choice was intentional...



I see of course, that Kessel himself uses the word "steaming" in the article.

Perhaps he is at least acquiring some self-awareness.

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Old
03-13-2012, 08:48 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafan519 View Post
Actions speak louder than words.
Exactly lets see him play in a corner for once and not be afraid of breaking a nail.

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