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Kessel steamed about losing

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Old
03-13-2012, 09:53 AM
  #76
The Mentalist
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I bet PK would have more game winners if the Leafs goalies stopped more shots. I could be wrong.

IMO he's developed his game more this year, but yes moving aside to let Chara skate down the middle of the ice was a bit distasteful. Obviously, he'd have been destroyed, but he probably had the best chance as winger to pick up someone coming down the middle.

I think he is afraid of being injured, and that's why he'll give-way on the boards. I suspect the shoulder surgery has had a long term affect on his courage.

Mind you this team, until Carlyle showed up, spent many a nights in the air, with flyby's by most of the forwards on a nightly basis. It will be nice to see some aggressive play against the oppositioin instead of from the opposition on a nightly basis. I don't expect PK to ever be handing out the hits, but I certainly wouldn't mind if his teammates softened up the other team for a change.

Kessel may be one of the smallest 6', 202 lbs. forward I've seen out there. He looks much smaller.
The play against Laich was distasteful for a team that was in a desperate situation. Watch at the end of play, if he skated as fast as he does when he wants to score, he would have been able to atleast distract Laich. He doesn't have to flatten him as he was shooting the puck but just knock his timing off.

To me this lack of commitment to the finer details of the game he has yet to grasp or is simply unwilling to do. No one expects him to be a Roberts, Tucker or Clark. But a little commitment to paying the price wouldn't hurt.

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03-13-2012, 09:54 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I see improvement in Kessel this year, playmaking for one example, some ethusiasm for backchecking.

But there are a lot of things that still linger in his game. He gets down and sulks, his body language is not condusive to positive results. You may laugh but body language and confidence are key factors to performance.

I'm not even talking about the yawn, which was played up. But it does tell you about Phil's personality.

Instead of making excuses as fans, we seem to be the leaders of this in the NHL, why don't we constructively critique this Leafs team? I don't see it for Phil and Dion. They may be 24 and 26, but we have players leaders that have won cups at younger ages, Crosby, Staal, Toews. That no excuse, the he is only 24 excuse has got to stop. He's a 6 year pro and players much younger have already proven their mettle.
There will always be players better than him at leading, but my point is that you have to realize a fair majority of players don't develop all aspects of their game and leadership before their 24th birthday.

Check out the average NHL rookie age and their distributions:
http://www.quanthockey.com/Distribut...stribution.php


This does not mean I don't want to see improvements in his game, it's just many people hold him to this massively high standard where players like Staal, Crosby and Toews are mentioned.

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03-13-2012, 09:58 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
The play against Laich was distasteful for a team that was in a desperate situation. Watch at the end of play, if he skated as fast as he does when he wants to score, he would have been able to atleast distract Laich. He doesn't have to flatten him as he was shooting the puck but just knock his timing off.

To me this lack of commitment to the finer details of the game he has yet to grasp or is simply unwilling to do. No one expects him to be a Roberts, Tucker or Clark. But a little commitment to paying the price wouldn't hurt.
Phil Kessel had been on the ice for nearly a minute and a half at that point as they were on the attack with a man advantage.

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Old
03-13-2012, 09:58 AM
  #79
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Lol nevermind.


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03-13-2012, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I see improvement in Kessel this year, playmaking for one example, some ethusiasm for backchecking.

But there are a lot of things that still linger in his game. He gets down and sulks, his body language is not condusive to positive results. You may laugh but body language and confidence are key factors to performance.

I'm not even talking about the yawn, which was played up. But it does tell you about Phil's personality.

Instead of making excuses as fans, we seem to be the leaders of this in the NHL, why don't we constructively critique this Leafs team? I don't see it for Phil and Dion. They may be 24 and 26, but we have players leaders that have won cups at younger ages, Crosby, Staal, Toews. That no excuse, the he is only 24 excuse has got to stop. He's a 6 year pro and players much younger have already proven their mettle.
I don't like Kessel on the boards, especially in his own zone trying to clear the puck. The play should seldom be to him there. He's not good at clearing the zone, so don't make that play.

I would not ask Schenn to do much more than be a defensive d-man and have good positioning in his own zone. He doesn't have foot speed for much more than that so why expect it. Same with PK, he's a speedy sniper, with playmaking abilities but he isn't a good defensive player. He'll back check, but really that should be to give the other players time to get back and take care of the heavy lifting.

Players have rolls, and when you are the only constant 30 goal scorer on your team other players are going to be counted on for other aspects of the game. This doesn't excust Kessel from trying to help out defensively, anymore than it says Kulemin doesn't have to score.

Crosby and Malkin
Toews and Kane
Datsyuk and Zetterberg
Kessel and Lupul

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03-13-2012, 09:59 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
What would you expect him to say during an interview....I really do not mind losing as I get to start my vacation that much sooner.

I did not read in the article were he took any responsibility for the way that the team is playing currently.
Are you insinuating that he doesn't care but he's just saying he does because it's the right answer? You speak like someone who doesn't know the first thing about the time and dedication it takes to realize a dream if you think that any of these players who spend their childhood building to the opportunity to play pro hockey are simply content with losing.

And is Kessel the sole reason the team isn't winning hockey games that he should say that it's all his fault? Kessel has made comments before saying that he needs to be better and help the team win. He didn't say it in this particular article but as a team, accepted responsibility for what has happened. The fact that he doesn't single himself out in one article somehow trumps the fact that he has taken personal responsiblity for his performances in the past when the team has struggled? Or should he say so each and every time so that you are content?

You measure the desire to win by a list of attributes that simply don't describe the kind of player that Kessel is. It seems quite arrogant to judge someone's desire to win when you've appointed yourself the person who decides what tangible attributes equal desire. Ideally, it would be nice to have every player on your bench do all the things you pointed out in one of your other posts but the reality is that not all players have that kind of game and Phil Kessel is not the only talented scorer in the league that lacks the attributes on your list. I saw you make a point in defense of Patrick Kane in regards to having a better +/- with less points - does it change the fact that Patrick Kane is not a good defensive forward? Does it make any difference to you that a player can make a bad play that helps set up a goal against but the player doesn't get a - on the goal because he stepped off the ice before the goal was legally scored? Or does the stat only mean something when it's convenient to your argument?

By your standard, Patrick Kane doesn't have desire. I guess he's just lucky that he rode the coattails of the entire Blackhawks team to a Stanley Cup. If it weren't for some lucky ******* that scored the OT winner, Kane wouldn't even know what it feels like to be a Cup champion, right? If only I can remember who scored that OT goal.....


Last edited by Ari91: 03-13-2012 at 10:05 AM.
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Old
03-13-2012, 10:01 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Donato View Post
people think cause he doesn't back check hard or lay hits like a power forward that he's lazy.. he gives it his all in the offensive zone. Lupul and bozak did a great job of taking care of the defensive work.. and the line worked amazing. Lupul would not of had the year he had if its werent for kessel and vice versa.

Right now.. best thing for kessels line would be kulemin.
BULL....the top line of the Leafs was one of the worst defensive lines in all hockey. What defensive work did Lupul and Bozak do? If that was their primary responsibility on that line they failed miserably. Both players, IMO owe much to Kessel, who did a nice job of padding their stats. Bozak should be turfed. Lupul should be a 2nd liner and Kessel needs a real centerman and a power forward on the other wing to be truly effective. Whats the point of having your top line score 70 goals if they give up 68? They give your team ZERO advantage when they are on the ice. Thats not a successful top line.

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Old
03-13-2012, 10:03 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by anderson3133 View Post
There will always be players better than him at leading, but my point is that you have to realize a fair majority of players don't develop all aspects of their game and leadership before their 24th birthday.

Check out the average NHL rookie age and their distributions:
http://www.quanthockey.com/Distribut...stribution.php


This does not mean I don't want to see improvements in his game, it's just many people hold him to this massively high standard where players like Staal, Crosby and Toews are mentioned.
It's not all rainbows with Kessel, actually I know what Kessel is. He's a #3 on a team that is a true contender. Ideally he would be a support player to a franchise player(s). I will use the example of Perry and Getzlaf.

I am trying to explain to Leafs fans that for some reason think he is better than Nash using a simple stats argument he isn't the franchise player many think he is. You want fancy stats, Kessel will be that man. You want championships, you want understated stats as in guys like Datsyuk and Toews. That's the real difference of being stats smart and hockey smart when discussing hockey.

I just find the love affair with this team very curious, when it is obvious this core isn't getting the job done. A few posters have posted well if we add a player there, a player here we will make the playoffs. We did this last summer, time to wakie, wakie leafs fans.

We need a different core of key players. Burke may or may not realize this, but if we tweak the lineup next year, we will be back here discussing how Kessel is statistically better than Nash or 97% of the players in the NHL while missing the playoffs AGAIN.

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03-13-2012, 10:05 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by anderson3133 View Post
Maybe because it's not his fault? The entire team sucks right now. He mentioned that the whole team has been bad, which encompasses him.
I agree.

One thing I can say is Saturday was the 1st game where I could sense the crowd turning on him, which is never good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Are there any Leaf players not steamed about losing?

If so then they shouldn't be playing for the Leafs any more.
Wish the same could be said for the fans(so called).

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Old
03-13-2012, 10:05 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by anderson3133 View Post
Phil Kessel had been on the ice for nearly a minute and a half at that point as they were on the attack with a man advantage.
You are an apologist, you did this for Wilson and now you are making excuses for Kessel. As if Kessel has never been weak on the man, did you notice also how he let Chara walk in and blast a deflected shot in last week also or was Kessel too tired after a long shift again?

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03-13-2012, 10:11 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Leafan519 View Post
Actions speak louder than words.
Top5 in pts top 3 in goals.

Im tired of people ragging on Phil. Hes playing as hard as he can. Hes performing at a rate which we should be proud, not throwing him under the bus.

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03-13-2012, 10:19 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
You are an apologist, you did this for Wilson and now you are making excuses for Kessel. As if Kessel has never been weak on the man, did you notice also how he let Chara walk in and blast a deflected shot in last week also or was Kessel too tired after a long shift again?
Let's criticize one of the very fiew bright spots on the team this season.

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03-13-2012, 10:20 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
You are an apologist, you did this for Wilson and now you are making excuses for Kessel. As if Kessel has never been weak on the man, did you notice also how he let Chara walk in and blast a deflected shot in last week also or was Kessel too tired after a long shift again?
Was Kessel out for a long shift or not, I didn't see the first period? Seems like the rest is just venting that didn't have anything to do with his post.

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03-13-2012, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
You are an apologist, you did this for Wilson and now you are making excuses for Kessel. As if Kessel has never been weak on the man, did you notice also how he let Chara walk in and blast a deflected shot in last week also or was Kessel too tired after a long shift again?
Hoo boy.

Somehow defending the Laich play means that he thinks Kessel has never been weak on the man. I know you're trying to talk about how overrated Kessel is because he's not an all-around player, but try to put a little less vitriol in your hatred.

If he's an apologist, I guess that makes you a mere derider.

Though I disagree with your assessment on the Laich play, I agree with you wholeheartedly on the Chara play... but let's not pretend that Phil Kessel is the only guy in the NHL to back off of Chara. :p

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03-13-2012, 10:21 AM
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If we don't make it next yr I could see him wanting out

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Old
03-13-2012, 10:23 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Let's criticize one of the very fiew bright spots on the team this season.
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Originally Posted by Espher View Post
Hoo boy.

Somehow defending the Laich play means that he thinks Kessel has never been weak on the man. I know you're trying to talk about how overrated Kessel is because he's not an all-around player, but try to put a little less vitriol in your hatred.

If he's an apologist, I guess that makes you a mere derider.

Though I disagree with your assessment on the Kessel play, I agree with you wholeheartedly on the Chara play... but let's not pretend that Phil Kessel is the only guy in the NHL to back off of Chara. :p
It's fair to point out the negatives as well as the postives, in which I did for both. I don't think every wants to come here and say wow we have had a great season, all is well.

If it's well thought out and constructive, it's fair to point out not all is rainbows and sunshine. Apathy, accepting mediocrity should never be accepted by this fanbase.

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03-13-2012, 10:29 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
Was Kessel out for a long shift or not, I didn't see the first period? Seems like the rest is just venting that didn't have anything to do with his post.
Watch the play and decide, he showed little commitment to both Chara and Laich, then he looked at Gardiner after the play as to blame the kid. Didn't like that part. If he was a leader he would take some of the blame off of Jake. Jake made a mistake but Kessel could have yelled Laich is behind you, on that all too frequent telegraphed set play. Then he made a half hearted effort to break up the play. Not good enough, but people want to make excuses for Phil. I'm not that easy and I don't wear blinders. That's what I saw. All too similar to not being hard on the man.

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03-13-2012, 10:32 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
How much does anyone wanna bet that Kessel doesn't resign and goes to July first in 2 seasons?
I can see PK resigning , he's already proven he values money over playing on a contending team . If Grabo can get 5.5 over 5 out of Burke imagine how much Kessel will ask for . PK will have all the leverage if Burkes still here and i can see him demanding somthing like 75 mil over 10 years .

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03-13-2012, 10:34 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Watch the play and decide, he showed little commitment to both Chara and Laich, then he looked at Gardiner after the play as to blame the kid. Didn't like that part. If he was a leader he would take some of the blame off of Jake. Jake made a mistake but Kessel could have yelled Laich is behind you, on that all too frequent telegraphed set play. Then he made a half hearted effort to break up the play. Not good enough, but people want to make excuses for Phil. I'm not that easy and I don't wear blinders. That's what I saw. All too similar to not being hard on the man.
Looks like Kessel gets back and keeps Laich to the outside, he just needs to do a better job jamming up Laich. I'm doubtful that's effort related, since he's in a position to do it and is making an attempt.

I agree on the Chara play, that was a soft play and he knew it, but I don't buy in to the "Kessel is poor defensively, so everything he does in his own end is wrong concept"

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03-13-2012, 10:40 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
It's fair to point out the negatives as well as the postives, in which I did for both. I don't think every wants to come here and say wow we have had a great season, all is well.

If it's well thought out and constructive, it's fair to point out not all is rainbows and sunshine. Apathy, accepting mediocrity should never be accepted by this fanbase.
You... didn't really address my post by editing the quote in to your reply to the other guy, but whatever, not a big deal.

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03-13-2012, 10:57 AM
  #96
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Trade him to Carolina for Tim Brent. We need blocked shots, not goals. 40 goals from Wisconsin is not worth even half of Brent's 9 goals and strong defensive play from ONTARIO.

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03-13-2012, 10:58 AM
  #97
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There's no question he's a dynamic player that wants to win, but I am getting really sick of hearing fans making excuses for how little he battles to get the puck. He's dynamic when our team has possession of the puck, he's average when the other team's got it all the time and he's guilty of turning the puck over or not competing whatsoever to get the puck.

Dude would be amazing alongside two gritty players that have the skill to pass the puck as well, but we don't really have those types here with Lupul out. He clearly needs both linemates to be skilled and gritty to both get the puck and create room for him, then we'll see Kessel be the player we all know he can be. Right now I don't think Lupul alone can do that work and Bozak just doesn't have it in him to play that role.

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03-13-2012, 11:08 AM
  #98
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Keep yawning on the bench. Have a cheeseburger while your at it.
The funny thing is he is prolly 100x fitter than u, so nice chrip bro.

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03-13-2012, 11:13 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by BudMaster17 View Post
Keep yawning on the bench. Have a cheeseburger while your at it.
Yawning is not just caused by being tired/bored.

Whenever I start doing cardio I yawn until until my breathing gets in a rhythm. The yawn is triggered because my body needs more oxygen.

If I really focus on breathing I can avoid yawning....if I don't focus on breathing it just corrects itself after 5 minutes or so.

Do a google search for more info. Phil and I aren't alone

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03-13-2012, 11:16 AM
  #100
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Exactly lets see him play in a corner for once and not be afraid of breaking a nail.
This. How about even simply taking contact to clear the puck in the defensive end instead of just throwing it to the opposition behind the net

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