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Old
03-15-2012, 05:48 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by Ol' Jase View Post
Horcoff fanned on two passes in the slot and missed glorious scoring chances. Why the capitalization when it is a simple pointing out of an event?
Simply pointing out an event?

You're the one making a mountain out of a possible expendable player benching.

You seem to have thought thats a terrible thing to do and you've specifically called out the decision and had no qualms coming to conclusion on that. I would imagine a defense of that proposition is up to you and should have more to back it up then "Omark played great and if only whiffcoff didn't misfire"

Omark is expendable for I would think obvious reasons.

I can argue that premise.

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Old
03-15-2012, 05:56 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Simply pointing out an event?

You're the one making a mountain out of a possible expendable player benching.

You seem to have thought thats a terrible thing to do and you've specifically called out the decision and had no qualms coming to conclusion on that. I would imagine a defense of that proposition is up to you and should have more to back it up then "Omark played great and if only whiffcoff didn't misfire"

Omark is expendable for I would think obvious reasons.

I can argue that premise.
It's obvious your simply looking for an argument, and I'm not biting.

Again, you're entitled to your opinion, we will agree to disagree and move on.

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Old
03-15-2012, 06:23 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Ol' Jase View Post
It's obvious your simply looking for an argument, and I'm not biting.

Again, you're entitled to your opinion, we will agree to disagree and move on.
I'm fine with that and agree everybody is entitled to an opinion. I simply couldn't see why or how you could construct an argument around handling of Omark being a significant enough variable in which to judge the coaching staff.

I've picked some odd hills to die on from time to time so I know the terrain to be sure. Just feel you picked one here.

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Old
03-15-2012, 06:31 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I'm fine with that and agree everybody is entitled to an opinion. I simply couldn't see why or how you could construct an argument around handling of Omark being a significant enough variable in which to judge the coaching staff.

I've picked some odd hills to die on from time to time so I know the terrain to be sure. Just feel you picked one here.

cheers
I appriciate the turn into more respectful dialogue.

For me, it has less to do with benching Omark and more to do with the inconsistant messaging, IMO.

I don't understand the throwing of the trash cans and proclaiming to the world that guys need to "suck it up and play hockey" if in the end the usual suspects are well aware that any of that sort of rhetoric doesn't apply to them.

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03-15-2012, 06:42 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Ol' Jase View Post
I appriciate the turn into more respectful dialogue.

For me, it has less to do with benching Omark and more to do with the inconsistant messaging, IMO.

I don't understand the throwing of the trash cans and proclaiming to the world that guys need to "suck it up and play hockey" if in the end the usual suspects are well aware that any of that sort of rhetoric doesn't apply to them.
Yeah, its a bit of what goes around comes around anyway you shake this team. I think after a certain amount of time here you just start throwing your hands up in the air as much as anything else. From the players to the coaches. The losing and futility being demoralizing for all. What causes it is of course being the chicken and egg argument. All hands are in play without maybe realizing it.

One gets the sense that Renney isn't heartbroken if next year isn't coaching.

Horcoff is untouchable here. Thats contractually and also with his NHLPA tie ins and Lowe love in. To go after him specifically would be perhaps unwise.

He's a sacred cow.

I think looking at it from the perspective of Lowe giving Horcoff 5.5M longterm and the best paid player, means a headcoach has to kind of pretend not to be disgusted with that. I think to state criticism vocally or in action means potential trouble. This is speculation on my part. But to call out Horcoff is to call out in some way what Lowe saw in Horcoff(being that part of that was a feeling that Horc would honor a longterm contract like a pro which clearly isn't the case)

I don't think theres a lot of want from anybody in this org to make Lowe look stupider..

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Old
03-15-2012, 07:16 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Omark is expendable for I would think obvious reasons.

I can argue that premise.
so is about 90% of the rest of the team. its why they suck.

you could bench any forward outside of the 3 kids and it wouldnt matter any given night. its all garbage and they cant execute NHL caliber hockey consistently. phonies and posers.

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Old
03-15-2012, 07:35 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I'm fine with that and agree everybody is entitled to an opinion. I simply couldn't see why or how you could construct an argument around handling of Omark being a significant enough variable in which to judge the coaching staff.

I've picked some odd hills to die on from time to time so I know the terrain to be sure. Just feel you picked one here.

cheers
Ol,Jase is 100% correct. We all know Omarks fate has been decided but we will as usual bench or press box a player who totally doesn't deserve it and hand playing time to players who time and time again have shown they deserve to have their ***** up in the press box.

It totally destroys all credibiltiy when the coach preaches about effort and we hear the usual bleats about the team each year that the people who deserve to play will play. The entitlement regime is still here alive and well because the team has no balls to offend some players.

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Old
03-15-2012, 07:35 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by CorpseFX View Post
so is about 90% of the rest of the team. its why they suck.

you could bench any forward outside of the 3 kids and it wouldnt matter any given night. its all garbage and they cant execute NHL caliber hockey consistently. phonies and posers.
I don't know...
IMO Petrell has actually gotten way better since Lander was sent down.
Eager has been streaky, but coming off of a concussion can do that. Gags has always been streaky period. Belanger has actually turned a leaf in the past 10 games or so, and actually seems to be finding his groove. Hemsky is also coming off of a major surgery and i dare you to find some guys who snap back to previous form immediately after (Malkin notwithstanding but he had lots of time coming back). Smyth was simply used too much and got gassed, but is still going to be a 20 goal guy.

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Old
03-15-2012, 08:14 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
First off you're not paying attention if you think it's only one seat.

Second, it really doesn't matter if it's 1 seat in a 10 seat arena, 17000 seat arena or 60000 seat arena. Each ticket holder can choose as he or she wishes to do with them as they want.

I can say that same thing, our seats have gone empty on more than a few occassions. I look around the arena and see more and more empty seats as the year has gone on.

Now you're right in tha Katz has his money for this year so big deal, now the question is will all those people not showing up this year going to renew in 3 months time?

But just like how blindly people choose to ignore that this rebuild isn't necessarily going according to script, I suspect many will also ignore the warning signs of where the paying public's mindset is as well.

As for the charity remark, here's a suggestion - why don't YOU buy a ticket and donate it?
Just because you act irrationally you think everyone should share this mindset. I've been going to games for 30 years in this city, I see no signs of anything that would lead me to believe that business isn't good for Katz. Maybe you should consider demonstrating somewhere for free rather than wasting your money or better yet...give it to me.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:18 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by CorpseFX View Post
so is about 90% of the rest of the team. its why they suck.

you could bench any forward outside of the 3 kids and it wouldnt matter any given night. its all garbage and they cant execute NHL caliber hockey consistently. phonies and posers.
Agreed, Gagner for example has been nothing great of late either and has show AGAIN and AGAIN that he needs a change of address, and I hope that no one tells me that's all on Omark because that's bull ****.

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Old
03-15-2012, 10:25 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Agreed, Gagner for example has been nothing great of late either and has show AGAIN and AGAIN that he needs a change of address, and I hope that no one tells me that's all on Omark because that's bull ****.
The reality of this team and you know it is its got about 3 players on it that are on. If you happen to be playing with none of those players for a dozen games its going to reflect in pt totals. ANY time we put those 3 together it just negates any supporting offense.

Still, despite all the criticisms Gagner at age 22 has as many or more pts as all the vets on this club. On this club a lot of it has to do with lines.

At least with Gagner if you throw him a player like Hall he will make something of it which he will soon enough. Playing with dregs like Omark isn't going to do much.

The real problem here isn't Gagner. Its all the forwards that haven't found their game all bloody year.

Gagner and Smyth are the only forwards other than the kids that can even look in the mirror this year.

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Old
03-15-2012, 10:35 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Ol,Jase is 100% correct. We all know Omarks fate has been decided but we will as usual bench or press box a player who totally doesn't deserve it and hand playing time to players who time and time again have shown they deserve to have their ***** up in the press box.

It totally destroys all credibiltiy when the coach preaches about effort and we hear the usual bleats about the team each year that the people who deserve to play will play. The entitlement regime is still here alive and well because the team has no balls to offend some players.
Does it not strike anybody else as weird that EVERY coach that comes in here has his favorite little whip things and doesn't much deviate from that?

I missed it if Quinn was ever calling out Horcoff or Hemsky. Quinn got after Moreau, I'll give him that.

If none of the coaches are doing it, and we've had 3, it suggests that some players may be a little off limits. The entitlement in the NHL, and with NHLPA reps and connected players is an issue, its an issue for most coaches. Theres coaches all over the league that will lose a battle everytime with certain players. Some get fired because of it when the player starts "working to rule". Soon as that happens a coach is dead in the water and may as well fire out the resumes.

People think that Joe Blunderbuss will just come in here and lay lumber immediately on any player regardless of their standing in the org?

I think as we've seen thats not likely to occur with everybody.

Most coaches are considered dime a dozen expendable in todays era of pro sports. The players who in some cases get paid close to 100X as much are on a whole different plane than the hired help assigned to babysit them and support their progress.

The go ballistic coaching era has been dead for years. Only certain teams, and certains individuals, and its increasingly rare, are granted that licence and latitude.

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Old
03-15-2012, 11:50 PM
  #363
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I'm a little late to this discussion, but I find it interesting that this "rift" seemed to occur with the addition of Omark in the lineup. Just sayin.

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03-15-2012, 11:58 PM
  #364
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I'm a little late to this discussion, but I find it interesting that this "rift" seemed to occur with the addition of Omark in the lineup. Just sayin.
The thought had passed my mind to. However, just speculation at this point until someone in the know points a finger at him.

I think it's a product of a losing team made up of vets who are conditioned to it and young guys who have only known winning in the past. If/when the train gets back on the tracks, then everything will get sorted out. Though it might take a new conductor/engineer along the way.

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Old
03-16-2012, 12:00 AM
  #365
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Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
I'm a little late to this discussion, but I find it interesting that this "rift" seemed to occur with the addition of Omark in the lineup. Just sayin.
Omark is as insignificant in the dressing room as he is on the ice.

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03-16-2012, 12:05 AM
  #366
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The team is losing and players have stopped caring. Time to dump the rest of the veteran garbage that's stinking up the lockerroom and the ice.

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03-16-2012, 12:07 AM
  #367
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
The reality of this team and you know it is its got about 3 players on it that are on. If you happen to be playing with none of those players for a dozen games its going to reflect in pt totals. ANY time we put those 3 together it just negates any supporting offense.

Still, despite all the criticisms Gagner at age 22 has as many or more pts as all the vets on this club. On this club a lot of it has to do with lines.

At least with Gagner if you throw him a player like Hall he will make something of it which he will soon enough. Playing with dregs like Omark isn't going to do much.

The real problem here isn't Gagner. Its all the forwards that haven't found their game all bloody year.

Gagner and Smyth are the only forwards other than the kids that can even look in the mirror this year.
Why do you even bother posting this crap? Derp Gagner is great as long as he has good players derp.

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Old
03-16-2012, 12:13 AM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Agreed, Gagner for example has been nothing great of late either and has show AGAIN and AGAIN that he needs a change of address, and I hope that no one tells me that's all on Omark because that's bull ****.
Gagner is at least consistent....

Consistently starts the year poorly
Consistently has a 5 to 10 game period where he is dominant
Consistently follows this with an injury or a disappearance act
Consistently finishes strong when nothing matters

The only thing he is not doing to follow the pattern is perform in the last 20 games of the year. I'm sure he will light it up with 5 to 10 games left.

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03-16-2012, 12:26 AM
  #369
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The thought had passed my mind to. However, just speculation at this point until someone in the know points a finger at him.

I think it's a product of a losing team made up of vets who are conditioned to it and young guys who have only known winning in the past. If/when the train gets back on the tracks, then everything will get sorted out. Though it might take a new conductor/engineer along the way.
Might not be Omark at all. Could be someone else resenting the fact that hotdog comes up and takes away their ice time.

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03-16-2012, 12:37 AM
  #370
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Originally Posted by dobiezeke View Post
Gagner is at least consistent....

Consistently starts the year poorly
Consistently has a 5 to 10 game period where he is dominant
Consistently follows this with an injury or a disappearance act
Consistently finishes strong when nothing matters

The only thing he is not doing to follow the pattern is perform in the last 20 games of the year. I'm sure he will light it up with 5 to 10 games left.
At what point in his Oilers career have any games really mattered?

I think the one time it was even remotely close to mattering he was a rookie and the kidline of the time was getting it done.

Other than that the oilers have been guaranteed doormats every year running. They were even supposed to be that Gagner rookie year.

Gagner will be there if it matters.

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03-16-2012, 12:58 AM
  #371
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Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
Might not be Omark at all. Could be someone else resenting the fact that hotdog comes up and takes away their ice time.
Heh, if that's the case then whatever. Omark isn't bumping anyone really relevant to the big picture.

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03-16-2012, 01:26 AM
  #372
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At what point in his Oilers career have any games really mattered?

I think the one time it was even remotely close to mattering he was a rookie and the kidline of the time was getting it done.

Other than that the oilers have been guaranteed doormats every year running. They were even supposed to be that Gagner rookie year.

Gagner will be there if it matters.
Well if you start well the chances of you playing meaningful games later improves. This year he came back from injury so he gets a pass.

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03-16-2012, 10:12 AM
  #373
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Well if you start well the chances of you playing meaningful games later improves. This year he came back from injury so he gets a pass.
Last season he started well. In TC this year he looked like he would start well. Kid was flying out there. Until the injury.

Theres a long list of problems that have plagued this team. Shining the light on Gagner is false attribution. He's one of the guys that is prepared to go forward. I have no doubt what Gagner will look like with a club that is even remotely competitive.

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03-16-2012, 10:46 AM
  #374
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Last season he started well. In TC this year he looked like he would start well. Kid was flying out there. Until the injury.

Theres a long list of problems that have plagued this team. Shining the light on Gagner is false attribution. He's one of the guys that is prepared to go forward. I have no doubt what Gagner will look like with a club that is even remotely competitive.
I see your schpiel, and I do agree that he shines when he has great linemates (not Hemmer, Horc, or Omark). Ultimately, this can be considered a flaw, but I have no problem putting him with Hall. However, I think it is wise to keep RNH and Eberle together.

Just my 2 cents.

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03-16-2012, 05:34 PM
  #375
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The division in the locker room is between fwds and defensemen:
the fwds are desperate to finish 27th or better
the defensemen are ok with 29-30

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