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11-13-2004, 06:07 AM
  #1
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Poor roster decisions at Hartford

are catching up to the Pack now. The coaching staff picked way too many useless, no chance of having an NHL career players who can't score. Sorry but there should have been at least 3 to 4 more of our better scoring prospects on that team this year. Having Lawson, Ulmer, Weller and Cuthbert on this team with the depth we have in our minor league system is simply not acceptable.

Again Sather shows his incompetence as a GM. He low balls all our top Europe prospects. He never gets them over here for the most part. Prucha is now wasting his time on a team where he gets no ice time. He should be on the Pack, playing on the first line getting 25 minutes a game.

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11-13-2004, 08:19 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packfan
are catching up to the Pack now. The coaching staff picked way too many useless, no chance of having an NHL career players who can't score. Sorry but there should have been at least 3 to 4 more of our better scoring prospects on that team this year. Having Lawson, Ulmer, Weller and Cuthbert on this team with the depth we have in our minor league system is simply not acceptable.

Again Sather shows his incompetence as a GM. He low balls all our top Europe prospects. He never gets them over here for the most part. Prucha is now wasting his time on a team where he gets no ice time. He should be on the Pack, playing on the first line getting 25 minutes a game.
Last year the Packs best scoring forwards were LaRose, Wiseman, and Ulmer. The only guy they lost was LaRose. At the deadline the Rangers added point-a-game All-Stars Balej and Giroux. Then this offseason they threw in Pock, Kondraitev, and just for icing, the AHL's best scorer, Jeff Hamilton. They were also hoping (and are so far receiving) a better sophmore season from Dominic Moore.

They gave Nigel Dawes and Marcus Jonasen a serious look in Pack camp, and to all reports they tried mightily to get Jessiman to sign. But the Europeans didn't want to come over during a lockout (just ask the Russian dmen), and so they made do with who they could get. Which is a pretty deadly team if you ask me. A 9-win start, microscopic GAA, even with early injuries to Hamilton, Murray, Grenier, and Pock? And you are complaining? About what again?

Sorry, don't see the GMing mistakes here.

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11-13-2004, 08:56 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubera55
Sorry, don't see the GMing mistakes here.
Same here. Just another useless try at taking a shot at Sather.

Last year Ulmer had 38 pts in 76 games. Not a slouch by any means.

Weller just recently had a two goal game, but thats besides the point. He's on the 3rd/4th line and is not expected on greatly to score. He also scored last night. :lol

Lawson is not that bad. If you saw the televised game, he picked up an assist and had a pretty good rush where he got a decent shot off. Nothing to complain about here.

You're out of your mind if you want Prucha on the fourth line, which is what Cuthbert is playing on. We dont need superstar scorers on the 3rd/4th lines. Just a waste. Cuthberts game is agitating, hitting and just busting ass.

9-0, then a 2 game losing streak and people are ****ting themselves. Take it easy. McGill is a good coach, I think he should be able to handle this.

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11-13-2004, 09:03 AM
  #4
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I agree. Though it would be nice. No team is ever filled with super prospects at every position. They need people who are good role players to play with and these guys are perfect for it.

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11-13-2004, 11:20 AM
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first, the pack have guys who have proven they can score in the AHL before...balej, giroux, wiseman, moore, ulmer, betts, and hamilton have all put up big numbers in the past and the fact that they aren't burying their chances or are hurt doesn't mean the potential isn't there

second, what makes you think any of the euros were interested in coming over this year with the lockout?? it isn't just up to sather to make the call, those players have to want to come over too

third, with a healthy roster guys like dawes & jonasen would be buried on the depth chart not getting enough ice time and people would be screaming that they should be back in juniors...

lastly, you might not like to hear this as a hartford fan but the wolfpack exists solely to produce players for the rangers. the purpose of the franchise isn't to win games or keep you entertained, it is to develop prospects. obviously they want to win also and they want to sell tickets to make $$, but if they feel that tyutin, kondratiev, immonen, prucha, etc will all develop better in europe then thats too bad for hartford, they have to deal with the guys they have.

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11-13-2004, 11:21 AM
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It is pretty obvious that their offensive strategies need some adjustments, because they aren't able to score much.

Also I think Cuthbert and Weller played pretty good so far, but I could do without Lawson and Ulmer they are neither great prospects nor great scorers.

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11-13-2004, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prucha73
It is pretty obvious that their offensive strategies need some adjustments, because they aren't able to score much.

Also I think Cuthbert and Weller played pretty good so far, but I could do without Lawson and Ulmer they are neither great prospects nor great scorers.
True. I dont think any of these has a shot at making the NHL though. Not saying they shouldnt be given a chance, but each player doesnt have something critical needed to make it.

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11-13-2004, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balej's Dance
Same here. Just another useless try at taking a shot at Sather.
I can sit here and take shots at that guy all day, but I agree, the Pack are a good team this year. 9-0-0 impressed the heck outa me, so a two game losing streak is okay. I think the poster wants to be able to see our top teens on a more regular basis. I was also hoping that Immonen or Prucha would come over. Marek I wanted here the most because of his age and he isnt even a prospect anymore.

And Prucha I think was better served getting 4th line time here rather than over there since Rodent reports that is where he is stuck most games now.

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11-13-2004, 03:20 PM
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I don't think our AHL team should be used as a place where 5 to 8 players who have no shot to make the NHL, play out a minor league career.

I agree having a couple for leadership is good. However, when we have the depth that we do now in the organization we don't need that many never will be's on that team. They are still running the team as if our farm system was that of 2 years ago. Ulmer to me is a player who has zero NHL ability and I don't see the point of playing a guy like that over a Jonasen. Maybe Jonasen could actually develop some chemistry with players like Balej, Moore or Wiseman and they could carry it over at the NHL level if they make it.

Suppose Balej and Wiseman make the NHL club. Wouldn't it be nice to have another prospect with NHL ability who has experience playing with them? I also don't think that players like Ulmer will help make any of our top minor league talent better. Guys like that really sponge off our better prospects. They don't help them raise their game.

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11-13-2004, 03:57 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packfan
are catching up to the Pack now. The coaching staff picked way too many useless, no chance of having an NHL career players who can't score. Sorry but there should have been at least 3 to 4 more of our better scoring prospects on that team this year. Having Lawson, Ulmer, Weller and Cuthbert on this team with the depth we have in our minor league system is simply not acceptable.

Again Sather shows his incompetence as a GM. He low balls all our top Europe prospects. He never gets them over here for the most part. Prucha is now wasting his time on a team where he gets no ice time. He should be on the Pack, playing on the first line getting 25 minutes a game.
Wow, this is just wrong on so many levels. You're only seeing Cuthbert, Lawson and (to a lesser extent) Weller because Hamilton, Murray, and Betts are injured. It's not like AHL teams carry taxi squads of potential 30 goal scorers in case of injury. Of course, the Pack could sign Dawe and Harder from Charlotte to beef up the scoring, but then you'd probably ***** about using vets and not giving kids a chance.

Ulmer's a 20+ goal scorer at this level, albeit a streaky one. Plus he had a very strong camp and pre-season (and I had written him off myself).

As for Prucha, name some Russian, Swedish, and Czech prospects playing in the top senior leagues that came over the play in the AHL. Long list, eh? Who's going to come over durign the lockout for less money with no chance to play in the NHL? (People also forget that Prucha spent most of the season last year playing the 4th line, with the same linemates he has now. It's only in international play and late in the season, when he was promoted due to injury, that he saw top-6 minutes.

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11-13-2004, 04:08 PM
  #11
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I would like to see Korpikoski next season in Hartford

next season Wolfpack should get some great prospects: Callahan, Dawes, Petruzalek, Graham, Baranka, Jonasen, Kozak, Flynn, Paiement, Lundqvist/Montoya, and possibly Jessiman, Prucha, Immonen, Korpikoski, Bahensky, Psurny.

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11-13-2004, 04:14 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packfan
I don't think our AHL team should be used as a place where 5 to 8 players who have no shot to make the NHL, play out a minor league career.

I agree having a couple for leadership is good. However, when we have the depth that we do now in the organization we don't need that many never will be's on that team. They are still running the team as if our farm system was that of 2 years ago. Ulmer to me is a player who has zero NHL ability and I don't see the point of playing a guy like that over a Jonasen. Maybe Jonasen could actually develop some chemistry with players like Balej, Moore or Wiseman and they could carry it over at the NHL level if they make it.

Suppose Balej and Wiseman make the NHL club. Wouldn't it be nice to have another prospect with NHL ability who has experience playing with them? I also don't think that players like Ulmer will help make any of our top minor league talent better. Guys like that really sponge off our better prospects. They don't help them raise their game.

First of all you NEED 5 to 8 players with some veteran experience out there on an AHL roster. EVERY team in the AHL wants that. However if you want a guy who is experienced at the AHL level, the odds are that he is experienced at that level for a reason. What that means is that he probably isn't a real NHL threat.

Secondly, while guys like Ulmer don't stand much of a chance they have proven they can at least score at the AHL level. You need that as a fallback for your team no matter how many good young players you have.

Thirdly, the Rangers lack of scoring prospects is EXACTLY what many people on here have been saying for two years now. You have a lot of nice third line guys, but up until recently the Rangers lacked guys who might develop into at least second line scorers. In all reality not many of those guys are even playing in Hartford this season.

Finally, AHL vets don't sponge off the younger guys and look no further than a guy like Garth Murray to see the guidance he got from vets his first season. Don't underestimate the increase in talent and speed from Juniors to the AHL.

The bottom line is that right now, the higher scoring prospects are in college or in Europe and that this team still needs one or two high end scoring talents from the upcoming draft. The Rangers weren't exactly overflowing with kids pushing some AHL vets out. Likewise when the kids start to score in Hartford they will begin to move the vets further down the depth chart. Some will become NHL players, others will become the new AHL vets. But they have to work for it. If we start handing them things at the AHL level, the picture isn't going to get any prettier at the NHL level.

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11-13-2004, 04:21 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prucha73
I would like to see Korpikoski next season in Hartford

next season Wolfpack should get some great prospects: Callahan, Dawes, Petruzalek, Graham, Baranka, Jonasen, Kozak, Flynn, Paiement, Lundqvist/Montoya, and possibly Jessiman, Prucha, Immonen, Korpikoski, Bahensky, Psurny.
Korpikoski just turned 18. He wont be in Hartford next season.

Bahensky and Prusny are too young.

I think Kozak wont be signed. He hasnt looked good in the games from what I heard and he has off ice problems. The Rangers are startign to stress 'good character' in players.

Immonen will step in to the 2nd line spot on the Rangers IMO. Prucha could make the big club too. I could also see Jessiman there if he goes and plays well at Hartford this season.

I still think Lundqvist will skip the AHL, letting Montoya start.

Either way, Dawes, Graham, Baranka, Jonasen, Challahan, Petruzelak and Montoya or Lundqvist are locks for Hatford. Thats a pretty damn impressed group coming in.

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11-13-2004, 04:32 PM
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Korpikoski, Bahensky and Psurny will be 19 when next season starts, Kloucek was 19 when he started playing in Hartford.

I really doubt they won't at least give Kozak a good look in the camp. I really doubt Lundqvist will skip AHL, he will at least get to play a few games there before NHL.

Next season I expect Hamilton, Lawson, Ulmer to be gone. Almost half of this year's Wolfpack will probably be with the Rangers next season. Nycholat, Gernander, MacMillan and Gillies will probably remain as leaders.


Last edited by Prucha73: 11-13-2004 at 05:06 PM.
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11-13-2004, 04:39 PM
  #15
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Originally Posted by Prucha73
Korpikoski, Bahensky and Psurny will be 19 when next season starts, Kloucek was 19 when he started playing in Hartford.

I really doubt they won't at least give Kozak a good look in the camp. I really doubt Lundqvist will skip AHL, he will at least get to play a few games there before NHL.

Next season I expect Hamilton, Lawson, Ulmer to be gone. Almost half this year's Wolfpack will probably be with the Rangers next season. Nycholat, Gernander, MacMillan and Gillies will probably remain as leaders.
I don't remember when Kloucek played their but it had to be at the end of the season. 19 y.o's cant play unless Juniors is over or there sa rule like that. That is the Blackburn situation. It can't happen. Thats why Dawes played a few games, it was after juniors.

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11-13-2004, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by NYRangers
I don't remember when Kloucek played their but it had to be at the end of the season. 19 y.o's cant play unless Juniors is over or there sa rule like that. That is the Blackburn situation. It can't happen. Thats why Dawes played a few games, it was after juniors.
if a player is drafted out of Europe or College he can play in AHL at 18 or 19.

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11-13-2004, 05:19 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Prucha73
if a player is drafted out of Europe or College he can play in AHL at 18 or 19.
Oh ok. Then all those guys are pure speculation (Prusny, Korpikoski, etc). None of them are probably ready. They might sign Korpikoski, maybe. But I think the others will hang tight another year.

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11-13-2004, 06:47 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packfan
I don't think our AHL team should be used as a place where 5 to 8 players who have no shot to make the NHL, play out a minor league career.

I agree having a couple for leadership is good. However, when we have the depth that we do now in the organization we don't need that many never will be's on that team. They are still running the team as if our farm system was that of 2 years ago. Ulmer to me is a player who has zero NHL ability and I don't see the point of playing a guy like that over a Jonasen. Maybe Jonasen could actually develop some chemistry with players like Balej, Moore or Wiseman and they could carry it over at the NHL level if they make it.

Suppose Balej and Wiseman make the NHL club. Wouldn't it be nice to have another prospect with NHL ability who has experience playing with them? I also don't think that players like Ulmer will help make any of our top minor league talent better. Guys like that really sponge off our better prospects. They don't help them raise their game.
1) OK, I'm convinced you know very little about how the AHL and minor league hockey works. Most teams are lucky if they have 5-8 serious prospects on their roster (especially if you count 21-23 year old players like Ulmer, Lawson, Cuthbert, and Weller as deadweight rather than development depth.) EVERY team has at LEAST 5-8 career minor leaguers. The Wolfpack's (with the exception of ol' man Gernander) are all 21-25, so they at least have an outside chance to develop and have something to play for.

2) Excuse me while I bang my head against the wall. ULMER IS NOT TAKING JONASEN'S SPOT! HAMILTON IS NOT TAKING HELMINEN'S SPOT! They play different positions and diffent roles on the team. They gave Jonasen a look and decided not to sign him this year. Ulmer had a great camp and pre-season. I suppose McGill should run the team like the Rangers: doesn't matter if you work hard and outplay the other guy, he's a big name so he gets a spot.

BTW, Jonasen is a LW, so how can he play with Wiseman (LW) and Balej (RW)? And they are playing with Moore, not Ulmer, anyway.

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11-13-2004, 06:57 PM
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It was an example bmoak. I didn't put much into the position Jonasen played figuring somebody like you would be nitpicking every sentence. It is you who doesn't know much about the AHL. The AHL is a league that most teams use to develop their best prospects. This is the case with the Rangers. The Rangers simply had 3 or 4 of there better prospects not on the Pack team because they had no room. Room that was taken up by prospects who were very low on their list and are not considered NHL prospects. Sorry, but you don't have a team like the WolfPack that your organization uses as the final stepping stone to the NHL and take roster spots on the team with useless prospects at the expense of prospects that have a chance to make the NHL. That is plain stupid.

The Rangers realized this by pushing Fedor and Kondratiev to Russia. I don't like this because I believe there were 2 other defenseman on that squad they could have moved and kept Fedor and Kondratiev here. So on one hand they will bring 2 of our top defensive prospects to the Pack but at the expense of two others. Pock, Fedor, Kondratiev, Taylor, Lampman and Liffiton should all be on the Pack team. Nycholat and MacMillan are totally useless.

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11-13-2004, 07:11 PM
  #20
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I can think of an AHL team from my youth run along the dictates of the OP. A team that almost completely stripped veteran players from its roster to showcase an exensive collection of recently drafted prospects fresh out of juniors(including 2 first rounders)the franchise acquired to be the centerpiece of a rebuilding effort.

The team was the 1989-1990 Binghamton Whalers and they won 11 games that year, being quite possilby the worst AHL team ever. But the kids got a chance to play together and gain experience, right? Well, none of them (Hull, Govedaris, Yake, Atcheynum, Black, and Whitmore for starters) really ended up panning out. I'm sure getting whupped nightly and jeered by the home fans helped. Oh, the team also folded at the end of the year. Huzzah!

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11-13-2004, 10:46 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by NYRangers
I don't remember when Kloucek played their but it had to be at the end of the season. 19 y.o's cant play unless Juniors is over or there sa rule like that. That is the Blackburn situation. It can't happen. Thats why Dawes played a few games, it was after juniors.
Under the old agreement (since expired), players drafted out of Europe were eligible to play in the AHL regardless of age--even if they subsequently played in Juniors. Kloucek was drafted out of Europe, played a year in Juniors and then, at 19, spent the year in Hartford (the year they won the Calder Cup).

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11-14-2004, 11:19 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packfan
It was an example bmoak. I didn't put much into the position Jonasen played figuring somebody like you would be nitpicking every sentence. It is you who doesn't know much about the AHL. The AHL is a league that most teams use to develop their best prospects. This is the case with the Rangers. The Rangers simply had 3 or 4 of there better prospects not on the Pack team because they had no room. Room that was taken up by prospects who were very low on their list and are not considered NHL prospects. Sorry, but you don't have a team like the WolfPack that your organization uses as the final stepping stone to the NHL and take roster spots on the team with useless prospects at the expense of prospects that have a chance to make the NHL. That is plain stupid.

The Rangers realized this by pushing Fedor and Kondratiev to Russia. I don't like this because I believe there were 2 other defenseman on that squad they could have moved and kept Fedor and Kondratiev here. So on one hand they will bring 2 of our top defensive prospects to the Pack but at the expense of two others. Pock, Fedor, Kondratiev, Taylor, Lampman and Liffiton should all be on the Pack team. Nycholat and MacMillan are totally useless.
Pack, let's try to step this backwards because I'm simply not understanding your position anymore.

1) How exactly was Sather supposed to lure the Europeans to Hartford during a lockout?

Tjutin and Kondraitev will make 5 TIMES their AHL salary in Europe. What would it have taken to get Immonen or Prucha in a Wolfpack jersey? And what would Balej and Moore have said when the new guy was making 5 TIMES THEIR SALARY?

In order to have an intelligently run farm system, is it your position that Sather must increase payroll by 3 or 4 times it's current budget?

2) The Rangers gave Dawes and Jonasen lengthy looks in training camp. They lost out to *currently* better players. You started this thread by complaining that Sather's mistake was not keeping more scoring on the team . . . but Jonasen isn't even projected as a scorer. He's *yet another* checker, right? And how much do you really expect a 5'9" rookie Nigel Dawes to score at the AHL level? More than AHL scoring champ Jeff Hamilton? More than proven AHL goal scorer Layne Ullmer (who's also a center and key face off man?)?

This seems inconsistent. If you want scoring and an effective team, you need to build it right with the appropriate balance of youth and experience. If you just want kids, then you should be furious that the Pack is fielding a competitive team. (Though the later still seems a silly position . . . especially during a lockout in which the Rangers signed everyone they could).

3) About Tjutin and Kondraitev... you've officially lost me here. The Rangers letting Fedor and Max go to Russia is good? Bad? huh?

Max is going because he's getting 5 times his salary. Tjutin is going, I would assume, because he's getting 5 times his salary and because he's pretty well proven that there is nothing left for him to learn at the AHL level. He's just biding his time until the lockout ends, so why piss him off by not letting him go home?

Meanwhile, their departure opens up spots for rookies with plenty to learn, namely, Pock, Liffiton, and Taylor.

If anything, it now seems fairly clear that the Rangers signed all those defensemen this summer with exactly such a scenario in mind. This was insipired GM'ing by Sather, not faulty workmanship. Instead of the Pack being caught shorthanded and having to yank guys around the roster (like last year when they moved Weller repeatedly between forward and defense, and even had to put Gernander onthe blue line) the team seems well prepared to keep right on trucking.

Sather deserves kudos for this, not insults . . .

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11-14-2004, 01:49 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balej's Dance
Weller just recently had a two goal game, but thats besides the point. He's on the 3rd/4th line and is not expected on greatly to score. He also scored last night. :lol
.
Why are u laughing for i dont see what is funny.

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11-14-2004, 01:56 PM
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[QUOTE=Kubera55.

1) How exactly was Sather supposed to lure the Europeans to Hartford during a lockout?

Tjutin and Kondraitev will make 5 TIMES their AHL salary in Europe. What would it have taken to get Immonen or Prucha in a Wolfpack jersey? And what would Balej and Moore have said when the new guy was making 5 TIMES THEIR SALARY?

In order to have an intelligently run farm system, is it your position that Sather must increase payroll by 3 or 4 times it's current budget?

.[/QUOTE]

let's try to step this backwards because I'm simply not understanding your position anymore.

1) the NHL is in a lock out, whats that have to do with giving players contracts in the AHL, im not understanding you views at thjsi point.

Balej and more have no say in what others gert paid, it is non of there business and the deal can be undisclosed and know one has to know. what do u think Sather was gonna give these euro players 2 million for 2 or 3 year contracts once agian im not understanding your views.


HUH?????

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11-14-2004, 02:01 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by AG9NK35DT8
1) the NHL is in a lock out, whats that have to do with giving players contracts in the AHL, im not understanding you views at thjsi point.
Why would a Euro prospect want to come play in the AHL where he gets paid 5x less and is away from home? If there wasn't a lockout they could come over because theres a chance to make it to the NHL. This season there is not.

Quote:
what do u think Sather was gonna give these euro players 2 million for 2 or 3 year contracts once agian im not understanding your views
exactly what Kubera is saying. Hes not going to pay them that, so why would they want to come over here?

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