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Why can't teams buy players from one another?

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Old
03-13-2012, 06:22 PM
  #1
Nickolopolous
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Why can't teams buy players from one another?

I've always thought that European football's practice of buying and selling players was excellent. Is there a particular reason why the NHL no longer allows such transfers? Do you think it could be reinstated? If you don't think it would work in today's game, how about an amelioration? What would that look like?

Edit: For those of you unfamiliar with the European football transfer system, consider the following hypothetical: Edmonton can't, or won't, provide Taylor Hall with a new contract. To recoup their losses, they sell him to the Toronto Maple Leafs for, say, $20,000,000. Edmonton now has liquid assets which they can turn into players, or whatever they choose, and the Leafs have Taylor Hall. The Leafs would then have to pay Hall his salary on top of the transfer, of course.


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03-13-2012, 06:56 PM
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wavaxa2
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It would be a form of cap circumvention, and one which unfairly favors wealthy teams over cash strapped teams.

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03-13-2012, 07:03 PM
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Nickolopolous
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavaxa2 View Post
It would be a form of cap circumvention, and one which unfairly favors wealthy teams over cash strapped teams.
Well, the CBA would have to be altered. Also, cash-strapped teams would control over the market as they would be setting the prices.

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03-13-2012, 07:45 PM
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egd27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavaxa2 View Post
It would be a form of cap circumvention, and one which unfairly favors wealthy teams over cash strapped teams.
Maybe they wouldn't be so cash strapped if this practice was allowed.

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03-13-2012, 07:52 PM
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BudMaster17
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I like the idea, the problem might be that the NHL wants parity and this would allow the rich teams an advantage. It was allowed before the cap.... So you never know maybe they bring it back. But when it was around it wasn't as big as European football. Gretzky got like 5 mill I think, lindros got 10 mill, draper got a dollar..

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03-13-2012, 07:57 PM
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03-13-2012, 07:59 PM
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Unfortunately, I think the honest answer is that hockey as a sport does not generate enough passion from its fans.

Personally, I dont watch soccer and I love hockey. But I think sports like soccer and american football are just better sports in terms of fan bases. (again, personally, my favorite sport is hockey)

The whole point of a cap system is to keep the league competitive. because the reality is - if a team is not competitive, the fans will lose interest. Of course there are a few exceptions - the hockey hotbeds.. but in general this is true.

Soccer fans in europe are more passionate about their sport - just like we are about in Toronto about our Leafs. Most clubs can suck for decades, and their fans will still support the teams in great numbers. In the NHL, if a team like Carolina was horrible for 15 years, they'd lose their team.

I make a similar argument with fighting in hockey. Yeah its exciting, yeah all the fans stand up and cheer. But guess what - the fans would stand up and cheer and get excited in ANY sport if a fight broke out. Imagine if in a football game, a reciever was going up against a cornerback all game - and at one point they decided to take their helmets off and fight. the crowd would be just as excited. But the NFL doesnt need that - the game stands on its own. And sells out, and has tons of interest - on its own. .. it doesnt need a boost from fighting witch would boost the excitement of really anything... sports, tv shows whatever - its a cheap way to excite people.

I have no idea why I'm going on about this, but here it is.

Again, I'm a hockey fan - first and foremost, but objectively, I dont think hockey could ever be up there with the big sports in the States/the world... and we'll always need some sort of cap system, so the teams in cities that dont make really care about hockey can still sell tickets. Without it, we probably have 10-15 cities that could actually support a team without this artificial "make everything fair" system.

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03-13-2012, 10:55 PM
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Nickolopolous
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egd27 View Post
Maybe they wouldn't be so cash strapped if this practice was allowed.
That's what I was thinking. I'm no economist, though. Perhaps it's not so cut and dry.

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03-13-2012, 10:59 PM
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Nickolopolous
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xyzz View Post
Unfortunately, I think the honest answer is that hockey as a sport does not generate enough passion from its fans.

Personally, I dont watch soccer and I love hockey. But I think sports like soccer and american football are just better sports in terms of fan bases. (again, personally, my favorite sport is hockey)

The whole point of a cap system is to keep the league competitive. because the reality is - if a team is not competitive, the fans will lose interest. Of course there are a few exceptions - the hockey hotbeds.. but in general this is true.

Soccer fans in europe are more passionate about their sport - just like we are about in Toronto about our Leafs. Most clubs can suck for decades, and their fans will still support the teams in great numbers. In the NHL, if a team like Carolina was horrible for 15 years, they'd lose their team.

I make a similar argument with fighting in hockey. Yeah its exciting, yeah all the fans stand up and cheer. But guess what - the fans would stand up and cheer and get excited in ANY sport if a fight broke out. Imagine if in a football game, a reciever was going up against a cornerback all game - and at one point they decided to take their helmets off and fight. the crowd would be just as excited. But the NFL doesnt need that - the game stands on its own. And sells out, and has tons of interest - on its own. .. it doesnt need a boost from fighting witch would boost the excitement of really anything... sports, tv shows whatever - its a cheap way to excite people.

I have no idea why I'm going on about this, but here it is.

Again, I'm a hockey fan - first and foremost, but objectively, I dont think hockey could ever be up there with the big sports in the States/the world... and we'll always need some sort of cap system, so the teams in cities that dont make really care about hockey can still sell tickets. Without it, we probably have 10-15 cities that could actually support a team without this artificial "make everything fair" system.
I definitely agree with some of your points. In terms of fan support the NHL isn't anywhere near the NFL, let alone European football. Of course, like yourself, I'm speaking in general. There are no doubt exceptions to the rule. I still don't see the negative aspects of a cash transfer market, however.

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Old
03-13-2012, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavaxa2 View Post
It would be a form of cap circumvention, and one which unfairly favors wealthy teams over cash strapped teams.
In the short run, yes. However, "cash strapped" teams would then likely become efficient in drafting techniques which would help them earn more revenue as they sell more frequently and draft better players. In the long run everything would likely equalize to a certain extent.

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03-13-2012, 11:15 PM
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hotpaws
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This system would be the death of the NHL .

Go to any Euro league and you'll see the rich teams dominate year after year . Sure there may be the odd surprise team but for the most part the poorer teams serve as a feeder teams to the rich .

Also , have the Leafs become so pathetic that even with the advatages that we have now we still can't ice a competitive team . Are we so pathetic that we have to have an overwhelming advantage before we can become a conteder ?

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03-13-2012, 11:31 PM
  #12
Nickolopolous
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
This system would be the death of the NHL .

Go to any Euro league and you'll see the rich teams dominate year after year . Sure there may be the odd surprise team but for the most part the poorer teams serve as a feeder teams to the rich .

Also , have the Leafs become so pathetic that even with the advatages that we have now we still can't ice a competitive team . Are we so pathetic that we have to have an overwhelming advantage before we can become a conteder ?
Even with no salary cap and alluring free-agents the Leafs didn't outspend the rest of the league.

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03-13-2012, 11:34 PM
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Swervin81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
This system would be the death of the NHL .

Go to any Euro league and you'll see the rich teams dominate year after year . Sure there may be the odd surprise team but for the most part the poorer teams serve as a feeder teams to the rich .

Also , have the Leafs become so pathetic that even with the advatages that we have now we still can't ice a competitive team . Are we so pathetic that we have to have an overwhelming advantage before we can become a conteder ?
Just like the NBA and bigger markets.

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03-13-2012, 11:39 PM
  #14
hotpaws
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Originally Posted by Nickolopolous View Post
Even with no salary cap and alluring free-agents the Leafs didn't outspend the rest of the league.
The Leafs were always one of the top spenders and the ufa's they could sign were much older than they are today .

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03-13-2012, 11:40 PM
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hotpaws
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Originally Posted by Swervin81 View Post
Just like the NBA and bigger markets.
The NBA has a soft cap and has had one for years .

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03-14-2012, 12:21 AM
  #16
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Let's trade coaches/gms too while were buying players.

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03-14-2012, 12:34 AM
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Swervin81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickolopolous View Post
I've always thought that European football's practice of buying and selling players was excellent.
Look at the parity there though. Oh wait, there's none.

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03-14-2012, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
The NBA has a soft cap and has had one for years .
Bigger markets can afford to pay the luxury tax though. In addition, bigger markets provide more endorsements, so yeah...

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03-14-2012, 12:46 AM
  #19
momo
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Originally Posted by egd27 View Post
Maybe they wouldn't be so cash strapped if this practice was allowed.
What would stop an owner who is losing a lot of money in his other businesses to sell off players so he doesn't go bankrupt.

Also what would stop owners to treat the NHL draft as cash cows.

1. Sell off good players for $$$
2. Be a lottery pick
3. Draft good young players and sign them to entry level contracts
4. Sell off good young players for $$$
5. Suck next get another lottery pick.
6. Rinse and Repeat.

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Old
03-14-2012, 12:47 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavaxa2 View Post
It would be a form of cap circumvention, and one which unfairly favors wealthy teams over cash strapped teams.
Isn't that what Burke did when he got Olaf Kolzig from Tampa Bay? Even though he was on the IR at the time Burke made that trade since the Leafs had cap space and Tampa Bay included an extra draft pick.

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03-14-2012, 12:49 AM
  #21
hotpaws
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Originally Posted by Swervin81 View Post
Bigger markets can afford to pay the luxury tax though. In addition, bigger markets provide more endorsements, so yeah...
NBA isn't a great example . Sometimes guys go where they can be the man ( t-mac ). Sometimes buddies get together ( Miami ) . The examples of where and why the players want to play are endless .

It's just a messed up league all around .

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03-14-2012, 07:12 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momo View Post
What would stop an owner who is losing a lot of money in his other businesses to sell off players so he doesn't go bankrupt.

Also what would stop owners to treat the NHL draft as cash cows.

1. Sell off good players for $$$
2. Be a lottery pick
3. Draft good young players and sign them to entry level contracts
4. Sell off good young players for $$$
5. Suck next get another lottery pick.
6. Rinse and Repeat.
30 NHL teams... Can't have 15 of them doing what you list above.

While it might seem strange, selling players allows teams to earn $$ through a mechanism other than gate revenue. This is good for small market teams.

European football teams are often owned by individual billionaires (eg Chelsea, Man City) who can afford stupid money on players. This is less likely in hockey because frankly there is less $$ in hockey and often teams are run by companies rather than individuals.

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03-14-2012, 08:44 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momo View Post
What would stop an owner who is losing a lot of money in his other businesses to sell off players so he doesn't go bankrupt.

Also what would stop owners to treat the NHL draft as cash cows.

1. Sell off good players for $$$
2. Be a lottery pick
3. Draft good young players and sign them to entry level contracts
4. Sell off good young players for $$$
5. Suck next get another lottery pick.
6. Rinse and Repeat.
good move if you want to be an unemployed GM

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Old
03-14-2012, 08:53 AM
  #24
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I think you should definitely be able to loan out players. In regards to transfers - it would be easier to do if a team had a cap on how many of these transactions you can do in a year. This way one team can't throw 100M out and acquire 5 players in one year.

You can also achieve that by limiting the lengths of the contracts to 3-4 years. NBA created a very healthy environment for UFAs and trades.

On another hand I think parity sucks as it averages teams out closer to average, rather than the top.

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03-14-2012, 08:57 AM
  #25
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I don't like the idea at all. Look at the EPL: you have the same teams competing for the title year in and year out (Chelsea, ManU, Liverpool..?). I mean every single year. When was the last time any other club won the EPL? The parity is really poor.

Should the NHL implement something similar, we would have teams like Montreal, Toronto, Detroit, NYR etc. throwing crazy amount of money at the best players just because they can; e.g. Crosby to Toronto for $50m. That's not a league I want to follow. Small market teams would be screwed.

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