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Old
03-14-2012, 12:47 PM
  #26
Led Zappa
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Nabby made so many saves look amazing that were actually ordinary saves. It was his style. He'd flash the leather at the last second making it look spectacular, when in fact he should have been in position to make an easy save. If Niemi makes a tough save look easy he gets no credit. And I'm pretty sure he saved a break away last night.

But the board is right. Every save he makes he should have and he never stops the hard ones. Apparently we have the best defense in the league. The other teams are only getting 2 or 3 good shots a game.

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Old
03-14-2012, 12:48 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Les Wynan View Post
It's easy to hate on Niemi and praise Nabokov because one looks ugly as **** in net with awful mechanics and rebound control while the other had a ton of raw talent, was elite in his ability to read the play and had a beauty glove hand. But, really, results are all that matter with goaltenders. Their job isn't to "stop the ones they should stop" as Drew will gladly tell you in the midst of his Lexus commercial as much as it's to just stop as many pucks as possible, period. Niemi's even strength SV% as a Shark is 0.926, Nabokov's from 2005 to 2010 was 0.920. Much smaller sample size with Niemi and maybe he goes downhill from here on out but he's done a better job of stopping pucks than Nabokov did after the lockout and he's doing it for much less money.
I agree, I don't really have a problem with him, just as I said I think that he's replaceable and there will be a good market for goalies this off-season potentially. I think we should see how our internal options play (Stalock/Sexsmith) given an opportunity, I think Stalock and Sateri definitely have more skill than Niemi. I also think there are few reclamation projects around the league that are a lot better than their numbers show (see this season with Smith and Elliot, etc).

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Old
03-14-2012, 12:54 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Nabby made so many saves look amazing that were actually ordinary saves. It was his style. He'd flash the leather at the last second making it look spectacular, when in fact he should have been in position to make an easy save. If Niemi makes a tough save look easy he gets no credit. And I'm pretty sure he saved a break away last night.
Yeah, watching on television just isn't conducive to evaluating goaltender talent IMO. Our eyes are naturally drawn to the puck in most cases and if a goaltender is in perfect position to stop it it's because it was a "routine save" or a "chest snipe" by the shooter instead of what it actually is...a sound positional stop.

It's like in baseball where a diving stop by an outfielder is always going to draw attention where if the player was in proper position to make the catch in the first place it isn't nearly as spectacular but is a much higher percentage play.

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03-14-2012, 01:06 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Les Wynan View Post
Yeah, watching on television just isn't conducive to evaluating goaltender talent IMO. Our eyes are naturally drawn to the puck in most cases and if a goaltender is in perfect position to stop it it's because it was a "routine save" or a "chest snipe" by the shooter instead of what it actually is...a sound positional stop.

It's like in baseball where a diving stop by an outfielder is always going to draw attention where if the player was in proper position to make the catch in the first place it isn't nearly as spectacular but is a much higher percentage play.
Carlos Beltran got a lot of flak for the example you just gave with baseball heh...

Is it his fault he was so graceful and fast to the flyballs that it didn't seem like he was trying? Mets fans were(are?) ridiculous.

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Old
03-14-2012, 01:47 PM
  #30
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don't forget nabby was really bad at playing the puck along with the 5hole

niemi goes down and stays down...you have no choice but to yell at your TV

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03-14-2012, 01:55 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by TealTownUSA View Post
don't forget nabby was really bad at playing the puck along with the 5hole

niemi goes down and stays down...you have no choice but to yell at your TV
Stalock is supposedly Turco-esque in his puck-play

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Old
03-14-2012, 02:01 PM
  #32
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And similar question on Moore...he was essentially brought in because Zeus wasnt cutting it has the 3rd line center. Lets say Moore had Zeus' contract, would you think he was an upgrade over Zeus?
Other than being faster than Zeus I think he worst in all other aspects. So no, I don't think he is an upgrade over Zeus.

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03-14-2012, 02:02 PM
  #33
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Didn't see it mentioned, but it's pretty crazy that Logan is the first shark to do back to back 30 goal seasons in his first two years. Congrats to him for sure.

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03-14-2012, 02:05 PM
  #34
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The giveaway on Iginla's goal was complete luck, the guy stepped out of the penalty box after Vlasic made the pass to intercept it. There was no way for Vlasic to know that the penalty was ending right as he was making the pass.
I disagree completely. All Vlasic had to do was look up at the clock/scoreboard.

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03-14-2012, 02:06 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by SharksFan1 View Post
Other than being faster than Zeus I think he worst in all other aspects. So no, I don't think he is an upgrade over Zeus.
He is an enormous upgrade over Handzus in that he doesn't spend the entire damn game in his own zone.

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03-14-2012, 02:14 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Kegsey View Post
Didn't see it mentioned, but it's pretty crazy that Logan is the first shark to do back to back 30 goal seasons in his first two years. Congrats to him for sure.
Isn't that kind of a given, as he's the first Shark to have a 30 goal rookie season...? (Unless I'm missing something)

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I disagree completely. All Vlasic had to do was look up at the clock/scoreboard.
Niemi should have been banging his stick.

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Old
03-14-2012, 02:16 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Iron Chef View Post
I'm willing to entertain those on the trade Niemi bandwagon, but do you guys think that Greiss would put up the same or better numbers than Niemi if he was the starter next season?

And similar question on Moore...he was essentially brought in because Zeus wasnt cutting it has the 3rd line center. Lets say Moore had Zeus' contract, would you think he was an upgrade over Zeus?

I liked Gally's game last night. He provided the energy of a McGinn, but just doesnt have his strength along the boards. Can't win any battles.
Yes, I think Greiss is capable of being a starter if given the oppurtunity. I don't think he would be a top 10 goalie or anything, but I think he is capable of putting up simular numbers to Niemi and he is a lot cheaper.

Moore is better than Zeus. Zeus has been Semenov bad this year. Your comments about Galaradi seem correct too. The third line really struggled last night because Moore was lost and Galiardi didn't have enough strength. Wingles looked a lot better with Mitchell and Moore than Galiardi did.

When Havlat comes back Winnick would be a great fit on the third line with Mitchell and Moore. Possible even a line of Winnick-Mitchell-Wingles would be best.

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Old
03-14-2012, 02:17 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Berto2k View Post
I disagree completely. All Vlasic had to do was look up at the clock/scoreboard.
Because there is always so much free time while they are on the ice that they can always keep an eye on the clock. More like the goalie or someone from the bench should have been shouting that the guy is coming out of the box, although maybe they were and he just didn't hear them or just f***ed up.

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Old
03-14-2012, 02:29 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KpopandHockey View Post
Isn't that kind of a given, as he's the first Shark to have a 30 goal rookie season...? (Unless I'm missing something)



Niemi should have been banging his stick.
Me saying "Pretty crazy" isn't in regards to Logan doing it, I just meant I had no idea that no other shark had done it before him.

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Old
03-14-2012, 02:31 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Kegsey View Post
Me saying "Pretty crazy" isn't in regards to Logan doing it, I just meant I had no idea that no other shark had done it before him.
Doesn't seem that crazy to me. 30 goals in your rookie season is quite elite.

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Old
03-14-2012, 02:34 PM
  #41
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could be worse. We could have Nabokov whose team last night was leading 4 to 1 at one point only to lose 5 to 4 from the Caps! (in a shoot out no less!)
Well the Islanders are garbage.. I hope they improve greatly though, I really want to see them do well in the east.

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Old
03-14-2012, 02:35 PM
  #42
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I don't think we've seen Moore's adjusted game yet. It'll come (hopefully before the sharks are eliminated from playoff contention).

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Old
03-14-2012, 02:36 PM
  #43
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I disagree completely. All Vlasic had to do was look up at the clock/scoreboard.
I agree. Vlasic agrees. He knows he shouldn't have made that pass.

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03-14-2012, 02:45 PM
  #44
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I think that Greiss has his mechanics down much better than Niemi, but he makes some bad decisions at times...this could work itself out if he was given time at the starting position rather than only a start every 15 games. He has really fast legs, and great lateral movement, usually challenges well and stays square to the shooter...the goals I haven't liked from him looked to be mistakes of inexperiance, rather than technical issues - that double pad stack nonsense he pulled one time was pretty dumb as well.

Niemi's problems are obviously - rebound control, finding the puck after the first stop & freezing when he doesn't know where it is rather than looking and getting back into position, glove hand, positioning, slow lateral movement, letting in long distance shots that should be stopped due to either inattention or positioning.

Strength - seeing the puck through a screen.

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Old
03-14-2012, 03:07 PM
  #45
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Harri Sateri should play.

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Old
03-14-2012, 03:44 PM
  #46
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And I'm pretty sure he saved a break away last night.
eh?

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Old
03-14-2012, 04:14 PM
  #47
Led Zappa
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eh?
It was probably the game before and it wasn't a big breakaway but it was one on one, but the point stands. Niemi is capable and has made those stops before. It just seems like he lets in every good shot lately. That simply can't be true or we have the best defense in the NHL.

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Old
03-14-2012, 05:00 PM
  #48
OrrNumber4
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Originally Posted by Les Wynan View Post
It's easy to hate on Niemi and praise Nabokov because one looks ugly as **** in net with awful mechanics and rebound control while the other had a ton of raw talent, was elite in his ability to read the play and had a beauty glove hand. But, really, results are all that matter with goaltenders. Their job isn't to "stop the ones they should stop" as Drew will gladly tell you in the midst of his Lexus commercial as much as it's to just stop as many pucks as possible, period. Niemi's even strength SV% as a Shark is 0.926, Nabokov's from 2005 to 2010 was 0.920. Much smaller sample size with Niemi and maybe he goes downhill from here on out but he's done a better job of stopping pucks than Nabokov did after the lockout and he's doing it for much less money.
I don't quite agree.

Niemi, to me, runs a bit hotter and colder than Nabokov did. So when he is really on his game, he can bail out his team. But when he struggles, the team needs to bail him out. Nabby was more of a straight line throughout the year. Niemi can be particularly frustrating if he is playing poorly during a stretch where the team isn't playing that well.

On another note, it is important to evaluate the clutchness of a goaltender. A goaltender that gives up 20 important goals/year (let us say 10 game-tying or game-losing goals) vs. someone who gives up 10...that is 10 goals/year difference which is going to be statistical noise but can translate into 10+ points in the standings.

As you always say, games can be quite close in the new NHL. So many one-goal games. It is important to note how a goaltender plays in those situations.

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Old
03-14-2012, 05:02 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
It was probably the game before and it wasn't a big breakaway but it was one on one, but the point stands. Niemi is capable and has made those stops before. It just seems like he lets in every good shot lately. That simply can't be true or we have the best defense in the NHL.
Case in point, and I didn't watch the majority of the first period, but what tough saves did Niemi make? Yes, the Iginla shot was a good one...so was the Stajan play. But they were both stoppable and you hope he could have stopped one of them.

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Old
03-14-2012, 05:08 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Les Wynan View Post
Yeah, watching on television just isn't conducive to evaluating goaltender talent IMO. Our eyes are naturally drawn to the puck in most cases and if a goaltender is in perfect position to stop it it's because it was a "routine save" or a "chest snipe" by the shooter instead of what it actually is...a sound positional stop.
This. Especially on 2nd chance shots. Lots of goalies are athletic enough to make the 1st save when out of position, but that means they're even more out of position for the 2nd shot.

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