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HC: Nick Kypreos re: Schenn -> "Burke will try to move him".

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Old
03-15-2012, 03:16 AM
  #51
Tak7
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^Am I the only one that DOESN'T think Phaneuf would get a good return?

Or is that just the frustration and annoyance of this death march getting to me?

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Old
03-15-2012, 03:16 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
Based on optics alone, Phaneuf won't be traded - this team just won't trade their captain unless it's for a king's ransom and then some; the type of return that Phaneuf doesn't command around the league.

I'm not convinced Phaneuf is a problem either - I think people have a hard time separating Phaneuf "the captain" and Phaneuf "the player".

The player is terrible - he's slow, lacks agility, has an overrated shot, and has been masked/bailed out by Gunnarsson for most of the season.

The captain - is anything and everything you want in a captain. He's vocal, he's proud, he hates losing, he plays hard every single night, he's smart with the media, and has the respect and appreciation of his teammates.

He's a bottom 4 blue liner; not a top 2 guy. This team doesn't have a top 2 guy.
There's a lot of issues in this post.

1: phaneuf doesn't play hard every night.

2: you're ******** all over his game, most good captains also lead by EXAMPLE. Leading by example is incredibly important. Watch NHL 36 lidstrom

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Old
03-15-2012, 03:18 AM
  #53
Tak7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffski View Post
There's a lot of issues in this post.

1: phaneuf doesn't play hard every night.

2: you're ******** all over his game, most good captains also lead by EXAMPLE. Leading by example is incredibly important. Watch NHL 36 lidstrom
Yes - let's compare Dion Phaneuf to one of the greatest defensemen to have ever played this game.

And thank you kindly for proving my point pertaining to people's difficulties with Phaneuf the player vs Phaneuf the captain. Perfect, actually.

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Old
03-15-2012, 03:19 AM
  #54
Griffski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
Based on optics alone, Phaneuf won't be traded - this team just won't trade their captain unless it's for a king's ransom and then some; the type of return that Phaneuf doesn't command around the league.

I'm not convinced Phaneuf is a problem either - I think people have a hard time separating Phaneuf "the captain" and Phaneuf "the player".

The player is terrible - he's slow, lacks agility, has an overrated shot, and has been masked/bailed out by Gunnarsson for most of the season.

The captain - is anything and everything you want in a captain. He's vocal, he's proud, he hates losing, he plays hard every single night, he's smart with the media, and has the respect and appreciation of his teammates.

He's a bottom 4 blue liner; not a top 2 guy. This team doesn't have a top 2 guy.
There's a lot of issues in this post.

1: phaneuf doesn't play hard every night.

2: you're ******** all over his game, most good captains also lead by EXAMPLE. Leading by example is the most important thing.

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Old
03-15-2012, 03:20 AM
  #55
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.....wasn't once enough?

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Old
03-15-2012, 03:24 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
Yes - let's compare Dion Phaneuf to one of the greatest defensemen to have ever played this game.

And thank you kindly for proving my point pertaining to people's difficulties with Phaneuf the player vs Phaneuf the captain. Perfect, actually.
Ya I typed the lidstrom thing but realized my mistake.

But anyways, I don't care how people think of phaneufs leadership. I care about the other players thoughts.

Would you not agree there are some apparent leadership issues with the leafs? I don't think the players respect phaneuf that much honestly. I could be wrong, but I'm probably right.

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Old
03-15-2012, 03:33 AM
  #57
Tak7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffski View Post
Ya I typed the lidstrom thing but realized my mistake.

But anyways, I don't care how people think of phaneufs leadership. I care about the other players thoughts.

Would you not agree there are some apparent leadership issues with the leafs? I don't think the players respect phaneuf that much honestly. I could be wrong, but I'm probably right.
You care about the other player's thoughts? And how do you know those thoughts?

I'll admit - I think there are leadership issues in the Leafs dressing room right now. Want to know why that is? Because they are the second youngest team in the National Hockey League, that's why. You can take the best leader in the league (I'm assuming it's Lidstrom for you), put him in that room, and I doubt he's goig to have that significant an influence.

Because they are still trying to find their way and because these sorts of slumps and problems are made all the more difficult to go through because not many of them have been through them at this level before and as a result don't know how to get out of them.

You have to be completely naive to think that there would not have been any bumps in the road when coming into this season with such a young roster. Now this happens to be the mother of all bumps, but it's a bump and a learning process nonetheless.

I also think given the Leafs struggles the past 20 something games, that it's a little easy to start dumping on things like leadership and character.

They will be learning more about themselves and each other now, than they will have at any other point in their careers.

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Old
03-15-2012, 03:34 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffski View Post
Ya I typed the lidstrom thing but realized my mistake.

But anyways, I don't care how people think of phaneufs leadership. I care about the other players thoughts.

Would you not agree there are some apparent leadership issues with the leafs? I don't think the players respect phaneuf that much honestly. I could be wrong, but I'm probably right.
Talk about speculative.

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Old
03-15-2012, 03:39 AM
  #59
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I think that if they are to trade Schenn it has to be to get one of their 2 biggest needs...goalie or a Center. I like Schenn, he will be a player that will help a team win the cup and play a big role while doing it!

I know we can get a stud if we pick in the top 8. Morgan Rielly should be available at #8 and he is a stud D man.

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Old
03-15-2012, 04:04 AM
  #60
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I'd rather hold onto Schenn.

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Old
03-15-2012, 04:42 AM
  #61
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Schenn is going to be a heck of a DMan. People are giving up on him much to early.

Being a slow positional dman who is able to take up a lot of space and make players pay everytime they enter your zone like Schenn or Komisarek are the type of players who get victimized a lot in a run and gun style like Wilson coach because they can't outskate their mistakes.

In a more structured system like Carlyle runs Schenn and Komi should be the players who benefit the most from the change in style but their will be an adjustment period.

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Old
03-15-2012, 04:53 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Schenn is going to be a heck of a DMan. People are giving up on him much to early.

Being a slow positional dman who is able to take up a lot of space and make players pay everytime they enter your zone like Schenn or Komisarek are the type of players who get victimized a lot in a run and gun style like Wilson coach because they can't outskate their mistakes.

In a more structured system like Carlyle runs Schenn and Komi should be the players who benefit the most from the change in style but their will be an adjustment period.
Just straight up wishful thinking IMO.

It's going to be 4 years pretty soon, we're at the point where given his performance and inconsistency I don't think it's at all unreasonable to be concerned.

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Old
03-15-2012, 07:24 AM
  #63
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If we get schultz then I think we should get schenn our phaneuf outta here. Schenn can land us a top 10 pick this year and phaneuf probably gets us a top 15 + prospect at the minimum.

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Old
03-15-2012, 08:13 AM
  #64
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Burke already hinted it was a weak draft to him and his team so do not expect a move involving draft picks to toronto. what we may see happen is:

luke schenn
20121st

for

rick nash

Burke will then try to save fce by dishing MaCarthur for a middle-late 1st.... This really depends on if Schultz comes over.

Galchenyuk in 1st game this season -3 in a 7-1 loss. do not see burke interested in drafting a Russian, as much as i would like him on this team.

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Old
03-15-2012, 08:20 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
Burke already hinted it was a weak draft to him and his team so do not expect a move involving draft picks to toronto. what we may see happen is:

luke schenn
20121st

for

rick nash

Burke will then try to save fce by dishing MaCarthur for a middle-late 1st.... This really depends on if Schultz comes over.

Galchenyuk in 1st game this season -3 in a 7-1 loss. do not see burke interested in drafting a Russian, as much as i would like him on this team.
he's more American than Russian.

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Old
03-15-2012, 08:23 AM
  #66
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I'd hate to trade Schenn all ready.

This will turn into a Steen fiasco all over again.

Please don't **** it up...

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Old
03-15-2012, 08:35 AM
  #67
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Schenn, Kadri, Kulemin for Nash

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Old
03-15-2012, 08:57 AM
  #68
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The only way I'd trade Schenn atm is including him for swapping firsts with the Oilers (assuming we finish outside the top 5 pick). Otherwise, I think both Schenn and Komi will look better in a defensive system, so I'm content keeping them both.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:05 AM
  #69
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Schenn has not reaped the rewards you'd expect from a top 5 pick in the draft. After almost 400 NHL games played he gets the fewest minutes among the D core, is a healthy scratch at times and too often makes mistakes that result in the puck in his own net.

Even Komisarek plays more than Luke Schenn. Wowser

Burke has to move him and we can only hope that the return is decent. His value is dropping like a stone.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:12 AM
  #70
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i dont see why some people are so opposed to moving schenn?

im not advocating moving him for nothing but if there was a good trade to be made that would benefit the leafs i would do it in a second.

without schenn our defense is basically;

phaneuf gunnarson
liles komisarek
gardiner franson
holzer

we still have percy, blacker, and a few others who could be ready shortly. liles just signed a new contract and komisarek has about 2 years left after this season. our defense would not be substantially worse if it looked like the above.

on our best day our forwards look something like;


lupul bozak kessel
kulemin grabs mac
lombardi steckel armstrong
brown connolly crabb/rosehill

^^^^^ this is disgusting. the fact that burke basically remade our entire roster and this is the best he could come up with breaks my heart. we got lucky that lupul is having the season he is because we can see that kessel cannot carry the offense on his own.

we need to use a player like schenn to try and upgrade a lot of the garbage on the team. he is our most expendable valuable asset

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:14 AM
  #71
Doug Gilmour
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Sedin + Sedin = Yakupov + Galchenyuk


maybe Burke is set on getting both ? (please...?)

Schenn ++++ for 1st
Would we have to trade for the 1st overall pick from Columbus, or would you have to think that Columbus would trade down or pick someone else seeing their success with Russians?
Would Edmonton draft the defenseman that they need or would we be able to swing a deal that would involve us trading Schenn or another defenseman (ie. Holzer) + some other pieces for the 2nd overall pick and then hope Columbus doesn't go after Yakupov OR do we trade for the 1st overall pick from Columbus and hope Edmonton drafts Dumba or Murray?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
I'd be surprised to see Schenn go, but you never know. It would have to be for a good return though considering how much Burke has wanted to keep Schenn in the past.
This ^


2013 1st TOR + 2012 1st TOR for 2012 1st CBJ

Trade Lombardi/Connolly/Armstrong/MacArthur for all the picks we can (Armstrong and Connolly could potentially grab us a late 1st or at least some 2nds )

Lupul - Bozak/Kadri - Kessel
Yakupov - Grabovski - Galchenyuk
Kulemin - Colborne - Kadri/Bozak
Brown - Steckel - Ashton

Gunnarsson - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Schenn
Liles - Holzer/Komisarek

Gustavsson
Reimer

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:18 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by VALDAL View Post
I do not get this him being young and all this ..

He has been in the league for 4 years guys .. Longer then most players have in the new NHL
He is two weeks into having someone other than Rob Zettler tell him how to play d in the NHL. I think it is worth waiting to see if a new, different voice pays off. The kid has the tools and desire to be very good.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:22 AM
  #73
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I do not want to trade Schenn....yet. However, if Burke is trying to pull a draft splash ala the Sedins then I can see Schenn being moved in this instance. Burke will NOT trade our first rounder this year. Not for Nash, not for anyone not named Crosby. He would not only lose his job, he would not be getting another one with the ridicule he would face for doing this not once (Seguin) but twice. That's just bad assett management. He would officially be remembered as Ballard 2.0.

My opinion, the only way Schenn goes is for a package to land another high draft pick this year. Or for a package for a 1st line center. There are alot of variable's from now until the draft like where we finish in the standings and who Carlyle points out to Burke who he wants on this roster next year. It's going to be an exciting summer none the less. Burke will not be happy with this collapse and feel a "Core" shakeup is on the way.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:28 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
top 10 pick in the draft and he's gone imo

maybe Schultz + Anaheim's top 10ish pick for Schenn + 2nd
If Schultz wouldn't sign, done deal IMO. Maybe even throw in a conditional pick if he plays so many games. Then draft Reinhart or Trouba with their top 10 pick, Grigs Gal or Fors with ours.


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Old
03-15-2012, 09:29 AM
  #75
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I would give him until next trade deadline and see how he plays next season before I make any judgement. If he doesn't look like hes fitting in, just paddle his *** out of here. Last time I hope we draft a Schenn ( I do think both brothers are overrated). Brayden has 12 points in 41 games, but if and when Kadri potted 12 points in 27 games, he's seen as a complete flop. Amazing what this board is at times.

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