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Leafs are a disaster

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Old
03-15-2012, 06:47 PM
  #101
Frankie
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
That's the problem with HF. Everybody thinks they're the best GM ever by looking in hindsight. You have to look at the result AND look at it when the signing/trade was made. Not every transaction is going to work out. It doesn't matter if you're the best GM in the world.
yes, we look at everything in hindsight. there's nothing wrong with that. in fact, there's no other way to look at it. that's how general managers are judged. that's how people are judged. you make a decision, you're responsible and accountable for the results. that's the real world.

the gm is responsible and accountable for the results of every transaction he makes.

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It's risk vs. reward. The potential reward of getting a center for Kessel, with a complimentary play style, was worth the risk of it not working out as planned and having that player underachieve for at worst 2 years. We filled a need, and the risk vs. reward assessment was in our favor. It was a good signing.
wow, amazingly low expectations. the only conclusion here is that you're happy to see the leafs lose.

we needed a centre, and guess what? we still need a centre. i suppose you're right, the only risk was that the player might suck, and in turn the team might suck. nothing worse than that is ever going to happen when a gm acquires a player.

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No, but it proves that it was market value for that player. There is a difference between a bad signing and a bad result.
there's no difference between a bad signing and a bad result. only the result matters. your opinion at the time of the transaction is irrelevant.

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No, they have not prevented us from winning.
burke's acquisitions aren't the reason we're not winning? then why aren't we winning?

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You people act as if we turned down a free line of Stamkos-Crosby-Malkin to go with a line of Armstrong-Connolly-Lombardi. No. It was those players or nothing. Our prospects weren't ready. There were no reasonable trades available. There were holes in our lineup. We obtained some of the best players available to us at that time, and it cost us nothing.
how do you know there were no reasonable trades available at the time?

there were holes in the line-up, and they weren't appropriately filled. there are still holes.

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Signing these players did not hurt or take anything away from this organization. It merely gave us more options on who to play.
again, incredibly low expectations. if the goal of all burke transactions thus far has been simply to "not hurt or take anything away from the organization", then i have to apologize. i have totally missed the boat. i assumed the goal was to actually improve the team and try to win.

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03-15-2012, 06:48 PM
  #102
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The thing I can't stand about Burke the most is that he unnecessarily handicaps himself. Instituting a roster freeze before Christmas when no other GM does? Check. Talking about implementing a roster freeze two weeks before the trade deadline because his players "can't deal with the pressure"? Check. Give me a break. This the NHL. These men are professional athletes. Deal with the pressure, or get into another line of work. I also really don't like the idea that he flat out refuses to do this whole offer sheet thing (the Kessel situation doesn't really count). Offer sheeting a player is perfectly within the rules and I'm astounded honestly that it is such an underutilized tactic. I would absolutely love it if Burke managed to sign Carey Price to an offer sheet this summer, and a massive one at that. We all know that the Habs would never let him go, no matter what, especially to a division rival, and even more so when that rival is Toronto. Sign Price to a massive offer sheet. Best case scenario, your goalie woes are history and worst case, Montreal matches and falls further into cap hell.

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03-15-2012, 07:06 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
24th. place team.


Doesn't take a lot of work to see all the problems on the Leafs.


Hopefully Burke turns it around to shut these guys up, but right now easy pickings.
thats the problem.. we could be in first place by a long shot and these guys would still find something to harp about... get the fans whining and so on

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03-15-2012, 07:06 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
i see a few. tlusty, kronwall, stralman, pogge. high hopes were had for all these guys.
No kidding.

Dare I say... but I think that leafs fans had higher expectations for those players than our current crop of prospects.
Kulemin was going to be rookie of the year. Stalman the next Lidstrom. Tlusty a 1st line 30 goal scorer, and Pogge the next Roy.

Of course, it was just delusional leafs fans saying these things. The rest of the league would scoff at those notions.
Same with today. Some things never change.

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03-15-2012, 07:07 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by MorriPage View Post
The thing I can't stand about Burke the most is that he unnecessarily handicaps himself. Instituting a roster freeze before Christmas when no other GM does? Check. Talking about implementing a roster freeze two weeks before the trade deadline because his players "can't deal with the pressure"? Check. Give me a break. This the NHL. These men are professional athletes. Deal with the pressure, or get into another line of work. I also really don't like the idea that he flat out refuses to do this whole offer sheet thing (the Kessel situation doesn't really count). Offer sheeting a player is perfectly within the rules and I'm astounded honestly that it is such an underutilized tactic. I would absolutely love it if Burke managed to sign Carey Price to an offer sheet this summer, and a massive one at that. We all know that the Habs would never let him go, no matter what, especially to a division rival, and even more so when that rival is Toronto. Sign Price to a massive offer sheet. Best case scenario, your goalie woes are history and worst case, Montreal matches and falls further into cap hell.
You are aware of the compensation that we would have to give up in a "massive offer sheet" we submit to any player?

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03-15-2012, 07:09 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Darkhorse1280 View Post
You are aware of the compensation that we would have to give up in a "massive offer sheet" we submit to any player?
Fully aware. Non-issue as, like I said, not a chance in hell Montreal lets him go. Price is a game-stealer. As bad as we've played, if he was our starting goalie, we'd be on the right side of the top 8.

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03-15-2012, 07:17 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by MorriPage View Post
Fully aware. Non-issue as, like I said, not a chance in hell Montreal lets him go. Price is a game-stealer. As bad as we've played, if he was our starting goalie, we'd be on the right side of the top 8.
Problem would be the Habs fans would chant Carey all game long since he stays on all game.

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03-15-2012, 07:18 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
No kidding.

Dare I say... but I think that leafs fans had higher expectations for those players than our current crop of prospects.
Kulemin was going to be rookie of the year. Stalman the next Lidstrom. Tlusty a 1st line 30 goal scorer, and Pogge the next Roy.

Of course, it was just delusional leafs fans saying these things. The rest of the league would scoff at those notions.
Same with today. Some things never change.
Of course, you won't mind posting the links to all these assertions?

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Old
03-15-2012, 07:19 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful View Post
Problem would be the Habs fans would chant Carey all game long since he stays on all game.
Chant all they want, as Price stones Hab after Hab and Kessel burns Budaj for 4 goals.

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03-15-2012, 07:19 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by MorriPage View Post
Fully aware. Non-issue as, like I said, not a chance in hell Montreal lets him go. Price is a game-stealer. As bad as we've played, if he was our starting goalie, we'd be on the right side of the top 8.
So our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in next year's draft which is shaping up to be one of the strongest in recent memory?

Yeah, no offense but thank god you're not running the show.

And if they do match it, guess who all of the 29 other GM's are gonna target when it's time to sign one of own prospects to an entry-level deal?

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03-15-2012, 07:32 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Darkhorse1280 View Post
So our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in next year's draft which is shaping up to be one of the strongest in recent memory?

Yeah, no offense but thank god you're not running the show.
i think what you're saying here is a fair point, but the compensation isn't the reason burke won't give a restricted free agent an offer sheet. he believes its immoral, not a proper thing to do.

if its within the rules, i say its fair game.

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And if they do match it, guess who all of the 29 other GM's are gonna target when it's time to sign one of own prospects to an entry-level deal?
fear of something like this is no way to run a hockey team or any business.

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03-15-2012, 07:36 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
i think what you're saying here is a fair point, but the compensation isn't the reason burke won't give a restricted free agent an offer sheet. he believes its immoral, not a proper thing to do.
Exactly my point. He has all these principles and he either doesn't realize or just doesn't care that it cuffs him in situations where other GMs are unencumbered.

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if its within the rules, i say its fair game.
Agreed.

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03-15-2012, 07:39 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
i think what you're saying here is a fair point, but the compensation isn't the reason burke won't give a restricted free agent an offer sheet. he believes its immoral, not a proper thing to do.

if its within the rules, i say its fair game.


fear of something like this is no way to run a hockey team or any business.
Yeah it's within the rules, but how many offer sheets have been submitted since this rule been implemented?

Maybe a handful? There's a reason for this.

The NHL is an old-boys club. I don't like it anymore than you do, but this rule is almost taboo at this point.

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03-15-2012, 07:44 PM
  #114
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I usually dont like the author, but this was an accurate and fair piece.

Leafs have been terrible under Burke. And now he cant even blame it on the fact that he didnt acquire the players. These are almost all Burke guys, and they are a disaster.

If any normal company had their numbers, the upper management would have been let go a long time ago.

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03-15-2012, 07:49 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Of course, you won't mind posting the links to all these assertions?
don't mean to interfere with your suggestion that these weren't highly-touted prospects, but this thread indicates a lot of posters here thought of these 4 guys as "untouchable" just 4 years ago.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...light=stralman

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03-15-2012, 07:49 PM
  #116
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I don't get it, we're scared Kadri is a defensive liability yet we're 3rd last in Goals Against.. We don't practice what we're preaching. Hope Kadri gets traded so he gets a chance with a good team

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03-15-2012, 07:53 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Darkhorse1280 View Post
Yeah it's within the rules, but how many offer sheets have been submitted since this rule been implemented?

Maybe a handful? There's a reason for this.

The NHL is an old-boys club. I don't like it anymore than you do, but this rule is almost taboo at this point.
you're absolutely right, the reason we don't see offer sheets is because of the old boys club, and the idea that its taboo to do it.

i'd like to see some gm have the balls to smash through this taboo.

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03-15-2012, 07:54 PM
  #118
MorriPage
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
you're absolutely right, the reason we don't see offer sheets is because of the old boys club, and the idea that its taboo to do it.

i'd like to see some gm have the balls to smash through this taboo.

You and me both brother.

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03-15-2012, 07:56 PM
  #119
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It's funny. A lot of armchair GMs like myself have been very critical of a lot of Burke's moves this whole time, and a lot of the good things that Burke gets credit for now are the type of slow growth rebuild moves we called for in the first place. To the extent that knowledgable amateur fans have understood the Leafs problems more clearly than Burke this whole time, what does that say about his fitness as a general manager in this market?

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03-15-2012, 08:11 PM
  #120
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John Michael-Liles is overpaid?

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03-15-2012, 08:33 PM
  #121
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He scored a goal tonight and he doesn't suck? He's been derping since his concussion

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03-15-2012, 08:36 PM
  #122
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He scored a goal tonight and he doesn't suck? He's been derping since his concussion
that's how injuries work. good for you.

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03-15-2012, 08:38 PM
  #123
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don't mean to interfere with your suggestion that these weren't highly-touted prospects, but this thread indicates a lot of posters here thought of these 4 guys as "untouchable" just 4 years ago.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...light=stralman
My suggestion was that the "Roy" and "Lidstrom" etc. statements are completely overblown and extremely typical.

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Old
03-15-2012, 08:59 PM
  #124
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If I gave the average person a piece of used toilet paper and this article I doubt they could tell the difference.

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03-15-2012, 09:09 PM
  #125
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If I gave the average person a piece of used toilet paper and this article I doubt they could tell the difference.
Single ply or double ply? Because I can sure tell the difference between the two.

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