Ashton could end up being a steal of steals. Aulie will be a good stable sturdy brick wall of a D for any team but Ashton could be a good power forward in the NHL.
When you are losing the debate you need to be firm and back up your position. This defeatist stuff is not helping at all.
You realize you are blaming the media for a crappy hockey club. That requires an explanation.
Losing the debate? K... and its hardly defeatist. Its sarcasm. This is like clapping with one hand...
*Coaches in Toronto (and elsewhere) regularly use deception to keep their starters from being lambasted by the media, pre-game.
*Road trips are often deemed legitimate opportunities to refocus and bond, away from the Toronto media onslaught. Thats also when back ups, or starters coming off injury get a game in.
*Burke often manipulates the media to deflect attention from his club.
*Tell me you didn't see signs of wear on Sundin and Kaberle after constant media scrutiny regarding whether they would cut bait on the team they went to hell and back for...
*Free agents have been reported to refuse a contract in Toronto because of media/environment pressure.
*When trading Pogge, Burke illuminated his 'four quadrant' philosophy for goaltenders to succeed in this environment. The most critical being mental toughness. In his words, "THE MASON KID" from CBJ would likely have faltered in Toronto as a youngster.
*Burke claims the composure intangible, and how a kid handles THIS environment as being a significant piece of the process in determining a players 'fit'.
*Pro hockey teams begin coaching and monitoring their players exposure to social media, and sports journalism for a reason.
*ex Leafs go on record saying that this market presents unique challenges.
Quantify, qualify or disqualify the above as you see fit. Im not interested in doing your thinking for you.
You recognized your argument was going nowhere, that you couldn't qualify any of your points, so you throw out a ridiculous question which is neither quantifiable, or relevant, as a means of redirecting the discussion. Kessel is a success, Aulie wasn't talking about 'commitments' off the ice, and a player living up to his contract by being the first 30 goal guy in nearly a decade doesn't hurt the club. especially when he has more assists than goals. You have nothing else to base your position on, so you demand I speculate about an intangible, yet obvious factor. I won't entertain you on that.
If media pressure is such a non starter in your opinion, can you explain why every pro athlete says they intentionally avoid reading sports news or listening to sports radio? Are they just not that interested in sports?
Last edited by Durkin67: 03-15-2012 at 01:38 PM.
Reason: clarification...FA's refuse contracts, not trades
Losing the debate? K... and its hardly defeatist. Its sarcasm. This is like clapping with one hand...
*Coaches in Toronto (and elsewhere) regularly use deception to keep their starters from being lambasted by the media, pre-game.
*Road trips are often deemed legitimate opportunities to refocus and bond, away from the Toronto media onslaught. Thats also when back ups, or starters coming off injury get a game in.
*Burke often manipulates the media to deflect attention from his club.
*Tell me you didn't see signs of wear on Sundin and Kaberle after constant media scrutiny regarding whether they would cut bait on the team they went to hell and back for...
*Free agents have been reported to refuse a trade to Toronto because of media/environment pressure.
*When trading Pogge, Burke illuminated his 'four quadrant' philosophy for goaltenders to succeed in this environment. The most critical being mental toughness. In his words, "THE MASON KID" from CBJ would likely have faltered in Toronto as a youngster.
*Burke claims the composure intangible, and how a kid handles THIS environment as being a significant piece of the process in determining a players 'fit'.
*Pro hockey teams begin coaching and monitoring their players exposure to social media, and sports journalism for a reason.
*ex Leafs go on record saying that this market presents unique challenges.
Quantify, qualify or disqualify the above as you see fit. Im not interested in doing your thinking for you.
You recognized your argument was going nowhere, that you couldn't qualify any of your points, so you throw out a ridiculous question which is neither quantifiable, or relevant, as a means of redirecting the discussion. Kessel is a success, Aulie wasn't talking about 'commitments' off the ice, and a player living up to his contract by being the first 30 goal guy doesn't hurt the club. especially when he has more assists than goals. You have nothing else to base your position on, so you demand I speculate about an intangible, yet obvious factor. I won't entertain you on that.
If media pressure is such a non starter in your opinion, can you explain why every pro athlete says they intentionally avoid reading sports news or listening to sports radio? Are they just not that interested in sports?
man, some of you guys should have actually listened to the aulie interview instead of reading the OP.
the OP just puts a lot of words in aulie's mouth to make aulie and the leafs look like they're using the media/fan pressure as an excuse for losing.
aulie was just answering a question comparing playing in toronto vs tampa bay.
...and in so doing, he referenced external pressures unique to this environment as being a critical factor in the team wide erosion in their morale and confidence.
Losing the debate? K... and its hardly defeatist. Its sarcasm. This is like clapping with one hand...
*Coaches in Toronto (and elsewhere) regularly use deception to keep their starters from being lambasted by the media, pre-game.
*Road trips are often deemed legitimate opportunities to refocus and bond, away from the Toronto media onslaught. Thats also when back ups, or starters coming off injury get a game in.
*Burke often manipulates the media to deflect attention from his club.
*Tell me you didn't see signs of wear on Sundin and Kaberle after constant media scrutiny regarding whether they would cut bait on the team they went to hell and back for...
*Free agents have been reported to refuse a trade to Toronto because of media/environment pressure.
*When trading Pogge, Burke illuminated his 'four quadrant' philosophy for goaltenders to succeed in this environment. The most critical being mental toughness. In his words, "THE MASON KID" from CBJ would likely have faltered in Toronto as a youngster.
*Burke claims the composure intangible, and how a kid handles THIS environment as being a significant piece of the process in determining a players 'fit'.
*Pro hockey teams begin coaching and monitoring their players exposure to social media, and sports journalism for a reason.
*ex Leafs go on record saying that this market presents unique challenges.
Quantify, qualify or disqualify the above as you see fit. Im not interested in doing your thinking for you.
You recognized your argument was going nowhere, that you couldn't qualify any of your points, so you throw out a ridiculous question which is neither quantifiable, or relevant, as a means of redirecting the discussion. Kessel is a success, Aulie wasn't talking about 'commitments' off the ice, and a player living up to his contract by being the first 30 goal guy doesn't hurt the club. especially when he has more assists than goals. You have nothing else to base your position on, so you demand I speculate about an intangible, yet obvious factor. I won't entertain you on that.
If media pressure is such a non starter in your opinion, can you explain why every pro athlete says they intentionally avoid reading sports news or listening to sports radio? Are they just not that interested in sports?
You made the thread under the guise that it is the medias fault for this poor hockey team. It is not my thread therefore not my job to quantify it.
I am asking for proof and clarification that the results are due to the unique media in Toronto. I think it is an excuse and not the reason why the team has been so bad for quite a number of years now.
Lightning fan in peace Wondering how Ashton has been for you guys so far? Aulie is a monster. Our defense has played much better with his addition and Lee/Commodore as well.
I dont know why MLSE just doesn't fold up shop and go play somewhere else. Maybe the league should give the Leafs 10 Wins to start the season so that the playing field is fair. Somebody tell Leafs Nation that the Montreal Canadiens have won 10 Stanley Cups since the last time the Leafs appeared in a Stanely Cup. Please don't use media/fan pressure as an excuse. It makes Leaf fans look pathetic and ignorant. Of course there is pressure in Toronto. No more than there is Montreal though and their fanbase is more delusional than ours. But I haven't heard their fans use that as an excuse for the Habs..who are just as brutal.
Lightning fan in peace Wondering how Ashton has been for you guys so far? Aulie is a monster. Our defense has played much better with his addition and Lee/Commodore as well.
He's been the Leafs best player since he got here. Well his first game he was invisible but the best since that.
Lightning fan in peace Wondering how Ashton has been for you guys so far? Aulie is a monster. Our defense has played much better with his addition and Lee/Commodore as well.
He's a kid filling in but looks really good. This coming from a team that has no real aggressive power forwards. He's got the baby face going on but great determination and is chesty. Give him a few years should be terrific 3rd line guy I think, maybe better.
Aulie is going to be a brick wall for you guys. It was a good trade overall for both clubs but I think we edged you guys. Power forwards like him are hard to find.
So Tampa has a recent number 1 pick in Stamkos, No 2 pick in Hedman, some savy veterans in St Louis and Lecavalier and this great Gm in Stevie Y. Yet if the Leafs win tonight there is only one point between the two teams - must mean Toronto is doing something right I guess since they have all the extra media pressure to deal with and no savy veterans showing them the way.
So Tampa has a recent number 1 pick in Stamkos, No 2 pick in Hedman, some savy veterans in St Louis and Lecavalier and this great Gm in Stevie Y. Yet if the Leafs win tonight there is only one point between the two teams - must mean Toronto is doing something right I guess since they have all the extra media pressure to deal with and no savy veterans showing them the way.
You made the thread under the guise that it is the medias fault for this poor hockey team. It is not my thread therefore not my job to quantify it.
I am asking for proof and clarification that the results are due to the unique media in Toronto. I think it is an excuse and not the reason why the team has been so bad for quite a number of years now.
Thanks for clarifying my intentions, Kreskin.
My point, is that in such a media-saturated 'sports' town, young players (i.e. high prospects) are more susceptible to that (often negative) influence than more established, composed players.
A high prospect can pretty much fly under the radar in Carolina, LA, Columbus, Nashville, etc. In Toronto, they are celebrities right out of the gate, and if they don't blow people away they are crucified. Steen, Tlusty both solid NHL citizens that felt the weight of the media pressure here. Steen was expected to duplicate Sundins numbers, mainly because he's of Swedish heritage, and plays centre. Tlusty was another one who was expected to snipe his way into glory because the media went nuts when he scored twice in his first game, despite the fact the second one bounced in off his arse. Poor ******* had panic attacks every time he walked by the ACC...
We are NOTORIOUS for being ruthless on the kids.
The media is a necessary evil, but god are they evil, at times. Imagine being Phil Kessel today, having a career year, leading your team, and most of the league and hearing that front page news in the hockey Mecca of the known universe, is not that you are the first Leaf in the better part of a decade to score 30 goals consecutively (4 years running), but that you should be traded for your efforts. Yeah, real motivating...I know, he's a suck if he doesn't laugh it off, right?
My point, is that in such a media-saturated 'sports' town, young players (i.e. high prospects) are more susceptible to that (often negative) influence than more established, composed players.
A high prospect can pretty much fly under the radar in Carolina, LA, Columbus, Nashville, etc. In Toronto, they are celebrities right out of the gate, and if they don't blow people away they are crucified. Steen, Tlusty both solid NHL citizens that felt the weight of the media pressure here. Steen was expected to duplicate Sundins numbers, mainly because he's of Swedish heritage, and plays centre. Tlusty was another one who was expected to snipe his way into glory because the media went nuts when he scored twice in his first game, despite the fact the second one bounced in off his arse. Poor ******* had panic attacks every time he walked by the ACC...
We are NOTORIOUS for being ruthless on the kids.
The media is a necessary evil, but god are they evil, at times. Imagine being Phil Kessel today, having a career year, leading your team, and most of the league and hearing that front page news in the hockey Mecca of the known universe, is not that you are the first Leaf in the better part of a decade to score 30 goals consecutively (4 years running), but that you should be traded for your efforts. Yeah, real motivating...I know, he's a suck if he doesn't laugh it off, right?
So does he read the papers or not?
Your story is changing.
Is the team bad because of the media or just the young kids are affected?
Lightning fan in peace Wondering how Ashton has been for you guys so far? Aulie is a monster. Our defense has played much better with his addition and Lee/Commodore as well.
His first game up, threw some hits, wasn't bad but wasn't good.
Second game, really physical, great board play and puck possession, much faster then I expected.
Third game, by far our best player on the ice, throwing huge hits, creating chances, good fight. Took two penalties, one was an awful call, the other was a high stick.
His first game up, threw some hits, wasn't bad but wasn't good.
Second game, really physical, great board play and puck possession, much faster then I expected.
Third game, by far our best player on the ice, throwing huge hits, creating chances, good fight. Took two penalties, one was an awful call, the other was a high stick.
At the same time you have to admit, first time in the NHL he is all nerves and trying to show off as much as he can. He'll settle down and find that happy median. He looks great though, kind of player I have missed on the leafs for some time.
Is the team bad because of the media or just the young kids are affected?
No, its exactly the same. The message is Burke has identified that there are pressures unique to this market which make introducing prospects a much riskier proposition than elsewhere. If it can effect vets and contribute to an entire team losing its swagger, it can in theory, cripple a rookie. Which is why high picks haven't been as useful to Burke as perennial 30+ goal scorers on a team that had no high end talent before the arrival of either Burke or Kessel.
Even the way you phrase the question is just teeming with rhetoric. " Is the team bad because of the media" and acknowledging constant (negative) media attention and performance are correlated aren't synonymous.
You laugh constantly, this is the best thing that ever happened to you.
Kind of sad, really.
Some of us noticed the trends of this team back in Nov and were trying their best to be reasonable and argue their points rationally. I seem to remember you routinely scoffing those people, and I was one of them. Here we stand under 20 games to the playoffs and are out again and most of what the small group of us were saying came to fruition.
What does that say? How should people feel? I am indifferent and not surprised at all, but, as I was first to post Fire Wilson Hire Carlyle (the day Carlyle was let go). The transition is going as expected and for the most part defensively the leafs are shoring up, as was needed from the get go.
So Tampa has a recent number 1 pick in Stamkos, No 2 pick in Hedman, some savy veterans in St Louis and Lecavalier and this great Gm in Stevie Y. Yet if the Leafs win tonight there is only one point between the two teams - must mean Toronto is doing something right I guess since they have all the extra media pressure to deal with and no savy veterans showing them the way.
thats actually really good point , never thought of it like that.
not sure why the perspective is so different, for me i guess is see TB having a better core to build around and considering if they wanted to they still have two pieces they could cash in on. Especially St Louis
He's a kid filling in but looks really good. This coming from a team that has no real aggressive power forwards. He's got the baby face going on but great determination and is chesty. Give him a few years should be terrific 3rd line guy I think, maybe better.
Aulie is going to be a brick wall for you guys. It was a good trade overall for both clubs but I think we edged you guys. Power forwards like him are hard to find.
I do not agree as I think we got a player that may play on the NHL and they got a player that will be a top 4 d- man
Now I may be a little biase as I know Keith but I also watched Ashton play for the Pats and was not overly impressed. Time will tell, he has did a decent job on a team that is playing horribly. Will he start the season next year as a Leafs player, I do not believe so.
Wondering how Ashton has been for you guys so far? Aulie is a monster. Our defense has played much better with his addition and Lee/Commodore as well.
