Sorry but this is a cop out. Ron's question to Burke in an interview said it all: Ron- "Gretzky said, "Players should only have to think about winning", If you give these players the impression that external factors matter, will the players not see that as a built in excuse?". To which BB responds with "our motto is no complaints no excuses" and then goes on to excuse the way the teams been playing the rest of the interview. Hey, he's protecting his team, nothing wrong with that. All this BS is a distraction from the reality which is the team sucks right now. Does BB believe in the long build? I think so. Did he do a mix-and-match bunch of patch jobs? Yes. Why? I believe it was to appease the owners and give a decent product on the ice while the team slowly builds into a cup contender. If not, and he really thinks this is the team, well then he really needs to be fired.
This is a public forum and people are free to express themselves any way they choose, provided they adhere to the guidelines laid out and enforced by the mods. My opinion on the matter is that the negativity is excessive and often inaccurate. And its a few people who perpetuate it for the sport of it. Lets see who can be the most sarcastic, and insulting, either to the poster, or in regards to a specific individual on the team. Lots of yapping it seems, and not a lot of articulated opinion.
I will give you credit for being decent at trying to turn the argument around. This is how it went:
1) You said that people are too negative
2) I said you should let people express their opinions because its a free board
3) You said that I should let you express your opinion because its a free board
We have to improve our goaltending and center ice depth come off-season via trades, as free agency will offer no help.
Should have kept a marketable young asset like Aulie and tried to package him for one of those above-mentioned upgrades.
Nothing against Ashton, but he was the exact type of asset we didn't need right now according to Burke - a future asset who is going to take a few years before really helping out the team in an efficient manner (he said this, of course, after turning down the 1st round picks at the deadline)
I will give you credit for being decent at trying to turn the argument around. This is how it went:
1) You said that people are too negative
2) I said you should let people express their opinions because its a free board
3) You said that I should let you express your opinion because its a free board
And to clarify, I don't LET anyone do a damn thing. Im not a mod. even if I was, its the right of the individual to say what they like, as long as they don't cross the lines of decency.
I am interested in suppressing free speech; I am illuminating the obvious. People have chosen to go overboard with the negativity for negativity's sake. It detracts from the quality of discussion if thats all that is ever presented.
Whats so enlightening about another " Burkes a moron" comment? The guy is a Harvard graduate, a successful sports executive for decades, a sought after public speaker, and he holds a doctorate in law. Moron? please...whats wrong with a request for intelligent, articulate input?
And to clarify, I don't LET anyone do a damn thing. Im not a mod. even if I was, its the right of the individual to say what they like, as long as they don't cross the lines of decency.
I am interested in suppressing free speech; I am illuminating the obvious. People have chosen to go overboard with the negativity for negativity's sake. It detracts from the quality of discussion if thats all that is ever presented.
Whats so enlightening about another " Burkes a moron" comment? The guy is a Harvard graduate, a successful sports executive for decades, a sought after public speaker, and he holds a doctorate in law. Moron? please...whats wrong with a request for intelligent, articulate input?
Meanwhile he has done a terrible job in Toronto. That's all that really matters here. No points for a degree at Harvard.
the media and the fans hurt the Leafs more than they help.
Its not like the ACC is full of fans chanting like in Winnipeg. Its all negative. A 20,000 crowd waiting for something good to happen so they can make a peep.
NO team can play in the environment that is Toronto and the ACC.
This team is doomed to faill until people realize, that although we love the Leafs and hockey is a huge passion, it is just a sport and a game.
Go out and cheer hard. Fans need to will this team to lofty heights.
Sitting back creating rumours, trading every player after a bad game, pulling Burke in 20 directions, fix the offense, fix the defense, fix the goaltending, draft high, make a trade, dont make a trade....etc.
Leafs fans should not expect nothing. I dont care if you are 20, 30, 40, 50,60,70,80 and the Leafs have never won in your life time.
New players come in with the weight of 40 years on their backs.
Forget the past. Leaf fans are like all the gf's and wives in the world all wrapped up into one pissed off, PMS'ing, overweight women that cant fit into anything she owns.
Meanwhile he has done a terrible job in Toronto. That's all that really matters here. No points for a degree at Harvard.
You clearly don't understand or appreciate the art of debating, any more than you understand the thought process behind what Burke has done.
You don't make a sweeping statement based on opinion, and expect it to hold weight or have any bearing on the discussion. Burke did a terrible job is not fact, it is a personal interpretation. Therefore, it has no bearing on this discussion, as opinion can't be argued. The consensus would agree that Burke has miscalculated on certain levels. Hell, Burke would concede as much, and has done so. He has also engineered some key changes that are critical to future success. Jake Gardiner is Brian Leetch/Scott Niedermeyer good. There is real depth, a quality core coming together, and a solid development program in place. That you can't acknowledge that, and choose to off handedly dismiss his successes really indicates that you are handicapped in your perception of this complex issue. Apparently, nobody that posts here expects any different from you.
And to clarify, I don't LET anyone do a damn thing. Im not a mod. even if I was, its the right of the individual to say what they like, as long as they don't cross the lines of decency.
I am interested in suppressing free speech; I am illuminating the obvious. People have chosen to go overboard with the negativity for negativity's sake. It detracts from the quality of discussion if thats all that is ever presented.
Whats so enlightening about another " Burkes a moron" comment? The guy is a Harvard graduate, a successful sports executive for decades, a sought after public speaker, and he holds a doctorate in law. Moron? please...whats wrong with a request for intelligent, articulate input?
I don't get what you're saying. I'm sorry.
In regards to your last point, Burke is clearly not a moron. He has just done a bad job and finds a way to place blame elsewhere.
the media and the fans hurt the Leafs more than they help.
Its not like the ACC is full of fans chanting like in Winnipeg. Its all negative. A 20,000 crowd waiting for something good to happen so they can make a peep.
NO team can play in the environment that is Toronto and the ACC.
This team is doomed to faill until people realize, that although we love the Leafs and hockey is a huge passion, it is just a sport and a game.
Go out and cheer hard. Fans need to will this team to lofty heights.
Sitting back creating rumours, trading every player after a bad game, pulling Burke in 20 directions, fix the offense, fix the defense, fix the goaltending, draft high, make a trade, dont make a trade....etc.
Leafs fans should not expect nothing. I dont care if you are 20, 30, 40, 50,60,70,80 and the Leafs have never won in your life time.
New players come in with the weight of 40 years on their backs.
Forget the past. Leaf fans are like all the gf's and wives in the world all wrapped up into one pissed off, PMS'ing, overweight women that cant fit into anything she owns.
well said. An unnamed Leaf told the media in Tampa last night that that was the most supportive crowd they have played in front of in a month. Give yourselves a hand, Leaf fans...
the media and the fans hurt the Leafs more than they help.
Its not like the ACC is full of fans chanting like in Winnipeg. Its all negative. A 20,000 crowd waiting for something good to happen so they can make a peep.
NO team can play in the environment that is Toronto and the ACC.
This team is doomed to faill until people realize, that although we love the Leafs and hockey is a huge passion, it is just a sport and a game.
Go out and cheer hard. Fans need to will this team to lofty heights.
Sitting back creating rumours, trading every player after a bad game, pulling Burke in 20 directions, fix the offense, fix the defense, fix the goaltending, draft high, make a trade, dont make a trade....etc.
Leafs fans should not expect nothing. I dont care if you are 20, 30, 40, 50,60,70,80 and the Leafs have never won in your life time.
New players come in with the weight of 40 years on their backs.
Forget the past. Leaf fans are like all the gf's and wives in the world all wrapped up into one pissed off, PMS'ing, overweight women that cant fit into anything she owns.
"Leafs fans should not expect nothing"...MLSE would love fans like you. "Just pay the most expensive ticket in the NHL, watch the lousy product on the ice and shutup"!!
You clearly don't understand or appreciate the art of debating, any more than you understand the thought process behind what Burke has done.
You don't make a sweeping statement based on opinion, and expect it to hold weight or have any bearing on the discussion. Burke did a terrible job is not fact, it is a personal interpretation. Therefore, it has no bearing on this discussion, as opinion can't be argued. .
I think at this point it is important to remind you that this whole thread started because you made a sweeping statement based on opinion that the media had a negative influence on the Maple Leafs.
Please explain the thought process of what Burke has done. Three years ago Burke took over our team and we were bad on defense, had no #1 centre, no #1 goalie, and were out of the playoffs. Where are we today?
You clearly don't understand or appreciate the art of debating, any more than you understand the thought process behind what Burke has done.
You don't make a sweeping statement based on opinion, and expect it to hold weight or have any bearing on the discussion. Burke did a terrible job is not fact, it is a personal interpretation. Therefore, it has no bearing on this discussion, as opinion can't be argued. The consensus would agree that Burke has miscalculated on certain levels. Hell, Burke would concede as much, and has done so. He has also engineered some key changes that are critical to future success. Jake Gardiner is Brian Leetch/Scott Niedermeyer good. There is real depth, a quality core coming together, and a solid development program in place. That you can't acknowledge that, and choose to off handedly dismiss his successes really indicates that you are handicapped in your perception of this complex issue. Apparently, nobody that posts here expects any different from you.
No no no. My statement is based on cold hard facts. Look at the results since Burke has been the GM. Watch and listen to him telling us that he had no interest in a 5 year rebuild.
You are spinning to make things look awesome. I am simply looking at the results keeping in mind the proclamations of the man in charge.
The team stinks and will most likely miss again. That is a fact.
the media and the fans hurt the Leafs more than they help.
Its not like the ACC is full of fans chanting like in Winnipeg. Its all negative. A 20,000 crowd waiting for something good to happen so they can make a peep.
NO team can play in the environment that is Toronto and the ACC.
This team is doomed to faill until people realize, that although we love the Leafs and hockey is a huge passion, it is just a sport and a game.
Have you seen the ACC at playoff time? You are probably too young to remember, but the place can get very loud. The Maple Leafs have given the fans nothing to cheer about over the past 7 years. That's it.
Many teams can play in the environment that is Toronto and the ACC, including many teams in the first 5 years of the building's existence. There are plenty of other sports markets that have teams who deal with media and fan scrutiny. Plenty of them win.
I know a lot of people are nice and want to support Burke and the players, but blaming the fans and the media is a new low that is based in zero reality.
well said. An unnamed Leaf told the media in Tampa last night that that was the most supportive crowd they have played in front of in a month. Give yourselves a hand, Leaf fans...
"If you can play, you can play" is all I say to that!
In regards to your last point, Burke is clearly not a moron. He has just done a bad job and finds a way to place blame elsewhere.
where has he deflected the blame? He holds himself accountable and he acknowledges others who contribute to the teams success. My point is, baseless, stupid comments like you see every day here about this guys intelligence, that guys skill level, etc. are so clumsy and juvenile, it makes it tough to want to keep logging in. A lot of people are expressing that they don't hang around long because the group is overrun with mindless, childish criticism, constant flaming, sarcasm, etc.
Earlier this week, I posted a new topic, to discuss some of the technical aspects of Reimer's game vs FLA. I also (correctly) predicted how many goals he would allow, and how he would get beat. I was right. What followed was a pile on, and a bunch of insults and sarcastic remarks unrelated to the topic. The reason? I broke protocol and didn't use the game day thread. Some people are more interested in flexing their e-muscle and anding like jerks than debating anything to do with the sport or this team.
There is more negativity than productive or intelligent exchange of opinion here, and its compromising the quality of discussion. Intelligent, mature people generally don't hang around long because it is boring and uninteresting to hear the same tripe so often. I just think we can all hold ourselves to a bit of a higher standard.
No no no. My statement is based on cold hard facts. Look at the results since Burke has been the GM. Watch and listen to him telling us that he had no interest in a 5 year rebuild.
You are spinning to make things look awesome. I am simply looking at the results keeping in mind the proclamations of the man in charge.
The team stinks and will most likely miss again. That is a fact.
the record stinks. the team does not stink.
The results are not just what you see in the standings. Its bigger than that.
where has he deflected the blame? He holds himself accountable and he acknowledges others who contribute to the teams success. My point is, baseless, stupid comments like you see every day here about this guys intelligence, that guys skill level, etc. are so clumsy and juvenile, it makes it tough to want to keep logging in. A lot of people are expressing that they don't hang around long because the group is overrun with mindless, childish criticism, constant flaming, sarcasm, etc.
Earlier this week, I posted a new topic, to discuss some of the technical aspects of Reimer's game vs FLA. I also (correctly) predicted how many goals he would allow, and how he would get beat. I was right. What followed was a pile on, and a bunch of insults and sarcastic remarks unrelated to the topic. The reason? I broke protocol and didn't use the game day thread. Some people are more interested in flexing their e-muscle and anding like jerks than debating anything to do with the sport or this team.
There is more negativity than productive or intelligent exchange of opinion here, and its compromising the quality of discussion. Intelligent, mature people generally don't hang around long because it is boring and uninteresting to hear the same tripe so often. I just think we can all hold ourselves to a bit of a higher standard.
You made a thread blaming the media and fans for the Leafs crappy results and in the same thread complain about negativity. That's good stuff.
The results are not just what you see in the standings. Its bigger than that.
What? The record was produced by the team. The team and the record stink. Look at the standings. While doing that check out the last time this team won a game against a team even better than 20th. It's horrendous.
Are we seriously to feel sorry for atheletes who choose to play this sport? They're played s hefty suk of money. Just focus and play. Yankees, Red Sox, Rangers have a similar going.
What? The record was produced by the team. The team and the record stink. Look at the standings. While doing that check out the last time this team won a game against a team even better than 20th. It's horrendous.
I guess we have to be content with player stats for now Gatorade "Whadda ya mean the Leafs suck? Kessel may pot 40 this year"!!
What? The record was produced by the team. The team and the record stink. Look at the standings. While doing that check out the last time this team won a game against a team even better than 20th. It's horrendous.
they are one of the worst teams in the history of hockey
