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Toronto Maple Leafs need to turn page on Phil Kessel

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Old
03-15-2012, 08:50 AM
  #26
Interactif
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezle View Post
easy to rag on Kessel and his faults than blame the entire team. Always go after the teams best players because it looks like they never do enough for the team, but don't blame the rest of the teams core for their pitiful perfomrances. I doubt any package they get for Kessel will make the team stronger down the line. I've seen the lottery picks in the last few years, I doubt any would make a big a impact as Kessel would. He is what he is, one piece of the puzzle.
Who blamed Kessel in the article? This is what Cox said:

Quote:
He’s not to blame for the shocking state of this hockey club. No single player is. If there weren’t terms on contracts and a salary cap in place, the Leafs could just carry on with him indefinitely.

But the money matters complicate things. Kessel has two more seasons left on his current contract, after which he becomes an unrestricted free agent. So the clock is already ticking on the next commitment that will have to be made to him if he’s to remain a Leaf beyond his 26th birthday.
It does help to read an article before passing judgment now and then.

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Old
03-15-2012, 08:50 AM
  #27
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I wouldn't throw Kessel away for picks, but I would definitely put him in a trade for a Getzlaf, Nash, etc.

In fact the only way I would acquire Nash would be if Kessel was the centrepiece going the other way. We would have to gut the rest of our roster if we had Kessel and Nash on this team at the same time.

In a perfect world, we would sign Parise and trade Kessel for a top centre.

Parise ______ Lupul

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Old
03-15-2012, 08:50 AM
  #28
Erza Scarlet
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Obviously people are not reading the article and not discussing why it makes sense to trade Kessel now, you wait and his value drops. If Grabo is worth 5.5, how are the Leafs going to afford 7+M for a support player that is due for raise in a few years. Plus it is obvious he is not the franchise player this team needs. But is perhaps the most tradable commodity, trading Richards and Carter didn't hurt Philly this year.
if we were in Phillys situation where we could make those trades, then yeah it make sense. So if you're not a franchise player, then trade the whole lot? When you have a good player, then trade him for future good players, and trade him for future good players etc. Why is it really the thickest fans that can't get the concept that he's only one piece in trying to build a winning team.

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03-15-2012, 08:51 AM
  #29
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why does it feel like carlyle all of a sudden has more pull than burke

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03-15-2012, 08:51 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Toasterman View Post
And people wonder why the Brad Richards of the world never want to sign here and the team has to overpay its own solid players like Grabo to get them to stay.

Ten bucks says this article never gets written if Kessel was Canadian.
I'll take that bet... Wait, how? Does this mean I get 10 bucks?

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Old
03-15-2012, 08:52 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Who blamed Kessel in the article? This is what Cox said:



It does help to read an article before passing judgment now and then.
he is basically implying that Kessel is neither a solution to this team, hence it's seen as a problem when the situation regarding Kessel isn't really a big deal.

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Old
03-15-2012, 08:53 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
How the **** can Kessel lead a struggling team when IT'S ENTIRE offense was anemic. In like 150+ man games outside of the first line, the last 3 lines had like 4 goals combined during the slump.

He's lost his top 10 scoring line mate and still puts up points. I agree that he's a bit on the soft side BUT if the Leafs can get a Mike Richards type player (****ing sucks Burke didn't pull the trigger considering Kadri and Kulemin haven't exactly took a step further) he would do all that dirty grunt work that would allow Kessel to RULE.

I put Kessel with guys like Kane who are just as equally soft but their centers are MUCH MUCH better than Bozak and do the hard work for such a player to succeed.

We need that for Kessel.

I would have done Kadri + Kulemin + ______ (not a 1st) for Mike Richards...

Also..I don't see Steven Stamkos along with his 50 goals and MSL and Vinny carrying Tampa to the playoffs. Offense is about 40% of the game, rest is goaltending and defense both of which have been pretty darn terrible.
I say tampa should trade them. They're not helping them make playoffs, trade the lot I say. Shows how much Burke overvalues his assets though. I feel we're coming to an end of an era soon.

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Old
03-15-2012, 08:55 AM
  #33
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I was wondering when the hyena's like Cox and Simmons were going to come runnin'! They could smell the viewings from kicking this dead horse a mile away!


Great idea Cox!!! Trade Kessel after a career year! Why trade him now? What's the rush? He's a UFA in 2 years??? So why not trade him in 2 years if you can't sign him! Why does every player have to be rushed out of Toronto??

I hear evryone screaming he's not a RC type player? The only person I don;t hear saying that is RC who stated he thinks Kessel is a very gifted player and is fully aware of his defensive woes and is going to work with it???

He may not be the best defensive player or even a remotely good defensive player but can you not cover that with Lupul adn eventually a good defensive center?

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03-15-2012, 08:58 AM
  #34
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People actually take Cox's articles seriously? Wow.

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Old
03-15-2012, 08:59 AM
  #35
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Only in Leafland. This place gets better all the time.

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03-15-2012, 08:59 AM
  #36
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kessel is a great piece added at the complete wrong time. he'll walk away frustrated as a UFA long before we're ever competitive and his tenure in Toronto will be meaningless.

if burke is serious about improving and building this team the right way, he'll deal kessel at the draft before he walks in 2 years and we get nothing.

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03-15-2012, 08:59 AM
  #37
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I say keep him, draft high this year and make a good pick and continue the process. Problem with the team is the centre postion and goalie right now. We have some not bad forwards and a nice #2 and #3 centre men.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:00 AM
  #38
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How many wingers in this league can carry a team on their back? When was the last time a team won a stanley or did anything significant in the playoffs without a great 2 way #1 center?

Inform me of all the wingers in this league carrying teams to the promise land without a center to fall back on?

Acting as if Kessel needs to go is a mistake. We tossed Lupul with this kid ( a guy whos never been much of anything) and they were stars for the entire season. Talk of the town. Now Lupul goes down, as does the leafs and its time to trade Kessel. GOD the two most aggravating reporters are simmons and cox. Without a doubt the most uneducated in the sport. I do not want to hear from anyone who tweets about their favourite fat boy pig outs nor the guy who appreciates a good game of tennis more then a good game of hockey. GTFO you dum* ***

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:05 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplehawk View Post
kessel is a great piece added at the complete wrong time. he'll walk away frustrated as a UFA long before we're ever competitive and his tenure in Toronto will be meaningless.

if burke is serious about improving and building this team the right way, he'll deal kessel at the draft before he walks in 2 years and we get nothing.
what happens if the leafs suddenly turn good in Kessels last year. What happens if this team suddenly gets good next year. Unlikely but we don't know how coaching will make a difference. I don't recall anyone seeing Rangers or Blues as good as they are. I'm more of a wait and see moment. The way the leafs structured the contracts, it's interesting how things play out here.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:07 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
How the **** can Kessel lead a struggling team when IT'S ENTIRE offense was anemic. In like 150+ man games outside of the first line, the last 3 lines had like 4 goals combined during the slump.

He's lost his top 10 scoring line mate and still puts up points. I agree that he's a bit on the soft side BUT if the Leafs can get a Mike Richards type player (****ing sucks Burke didn't pull the trigger considering Kadri and Kulemin haven't exactly took a step further) he would do all that dirty grunt work that would allow Kessel to RULE.

I put Kessel with guys like Kane who are just as equally soft but their centers are MUCH MUCH better than Bozak and do the hard work for such a player to succeed.

We need that for Kessel.

I would have done Kadri + Kulemin + ______ (not a 1st) for Mike Richards...

Also..I don't see Steven Stamkos along with his 50 goals and MSL and Vinny carrying Tampa to the playoffs. Offense is about 40% of the game, rest is goaltending and defense both of which have been pretty darn terrible.
Before anything else, Philly walked away from that deal, not Burke. Its amazing the kind of truths the FanHorde dreams up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Obviously people are not reading the article and not discussing why it makes sense to trade Kessel now, you wait and his value drops. If Grabo is worth 5.5, how are the Leafs going to afford 7+M for a support player that is due for raise in a few years. Plus it is obvious he is not the franchise player this team needs. But is perhaps the most tradable commodity, trading Richards and Carter didn't hurt Philly this year.
See below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by iArts View Post
#5 in points? Not good enough for Toronto.

The fear that's radiating from some of the LeafHorde is almost tangible. Your imaginations are running wild, and you're projecting them as if they're truths.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:08 AM
  #41
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This whole team needs to blown up. 85% are useless, have no heart, play uninspired and are unmotivated. This "core" of players present will be winning **** all/ competeing for **** all anytime soon. Burke was offered a first for kulemin and macarthur? I would have taken that and run out the door. "I dont want to wait 3 years for them to make an impact" This team wont even be in the playoffs in 3 years so a couple firsts for a couple career 3rd liners? Yes please.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:09 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezle View Post
he is basically implying that Kessel is neither a solution to this team, hence it's seen as a problem when the situation regarding Kessel isn't really a big deal.
Funny perception, I saw it as he is a good player, but he is not the solution for this team right now. Given our reoccurring failures of making the post season and Kessel's contract situation in 2 years, this may be the time to move him. Not sure where the implication is, proof is we are missing the playoffs again, and are missing leadership qualities. We have tried the tweaks, to no avail. Instead of not doing anything and doing the same thing, you don't think it may be time to re-evaluate the state of the club?

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:10 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplehawk View Post
kessel is a great piece added at the complete wrong time. he'll walk away frustrated as a UFA long before we're ever competitive and his tenure in Toronto will be meaningless.

if burke is serious about improving and building this team the right way, he'll deal kessel at the draft before he walks in 2 years and we get nothing.
Thank god, someone gets it here.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:10 AM
  #44
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These offers for Kessel are an embarrassment.

Kessel, this guy who is a leading scorer in the NHL? Needs ++ (when I mean BIG +'s) to get Nash and CLB 1st??

Are you guys suffering from LSD-laced Kool-Aid?

Kessel is a superstar and if Burke traded him it would be for a LOT more than he gave up originally, as Kessel has been one of the MOST consistent players in the ENTIRE NHL over his career and has been at least a 30 goal scorer since the 08-09 season.

That's more consistent and more goals/season average than Nash, whose salary is massively bloated by comparison.

If Kessel is getting moved, it is Kessel for Getzlaf+ or Perry+ or Ryan++ or Nash++ or Yakupov+.

These are all AT THE VERY LEAST.

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03-15-2012, 09:11 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Quarter View Post
People actually take Cox's articles seriously? Wow.
I don't have strong feelings one way or the other. All I know is that my gut says maybe.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:12 AM
  #46
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People's interest is flagging; there is nothing hopeful about how the Leafs are finishing this season. Cox is trying to drum up interest, shake up our increasingly reluctant attention spans. So he comes up with a controversial idea that he has basically pulled out of his ass.

The larger point though is if you get the right deal, of course, trade Kessel. Or Phaneuf. Of Gardiner. Or anybody. But it's got to be a great deal. Nobody should be excluded from possible consideration, depending upon what the other side is offering.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:14 AM
  #47
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This is getting ****ing stupid.

How in the hell are we forced to sit through this kind of awful journalism.

This coming from the same guy who suggested that Nazem Kadri be given #13 (before we even honoured Sundin) only to add pressure to the kid... because he apparently he needs it?


Where does this guy come up with his ****? I was beginning to appreciate some of his thoughts, but this guy is wack.

Think about it this way... what if the Sens sold off Spezza, Phillips, and Alfredsson like what many were speculating last year?

Teams sometimes have off years... hell, for most of the year, the Leafs were considered a playoff lock. I don't think you blowup the team over something like this.


Also, I absolutely hate the argument that Kessel won't work with Carlyle. That's ********. Like I've mentioned before, Teemu Selanne is weaker, and worse defensively than Kessel, and he seemed to thrive under Carlyle.


****'s giving me an ulcer.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:15 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Ometheus View Post
I don't have strong feelings one way or the other. All I know is that my gut says maybe.
Are you Cox?

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:16 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Obviously people are not reading the article and not discussing why it makes sense to trade Kessel now, you wait and his value drops. If Grabo is worth 5.5, how are the Leafs going to afford 7+M for a support player that is due for raise in a few years. Plus it is obvious he is not the franchise player this team needs. But is perhaps the most tradable commodity, trading Richards and Carter didn't hurt Philly this year.
Of course they aren't reading the article, they want to crush discussion of this subject entirely.

As for the comparison to Philadelphia, they still had a lot more NHL talent than the Leafs. Kessel for prospects and/or draft picks would be a massive competitive step backwards. Burke isn't getting a contract extension taking that route.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:16 AM
  #50
Interactif
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Originally Posted by iArts View Post
#5 in points? Not good enough for Toronto.
This is one of the most used replies when Kessel is discussed in which I say points only tell part of a story. It is one thing to be stats smart and hockey smart. 5th in points and missing the playoffs again. It's not entirely Kessel's fault but this same core of players failed again. Thus no one is untouchable. At work if my team failed 4 straight years I would expect changes in the team.

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