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Toronto Maple Leafs need to turn page on Phil Kessel

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:16 AM
  #51
Patty Lee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
He likes good hockey players with character, and that sure as heck isn't Kessel. When the going gets tough, Kessel just packs it in.

If we could keep him indefinately for his current cap hit, it would be worth it. However, as Cox suggested, he'll be getting a significant raise if he stays beyond his current contract.
easy for some schmuck behind his key board to call out someone on character without having anything to back it up.

ppg player in the playoffs, no matter how small the sample, doesn't say he packs it in when the going gets tough.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:17 AM
  #52
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Here we go again eh?

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:18 AM
  #53
Sergei Berezin
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Also, why are people pretending that we've been perishing in the basement all season?


We were looking at getting home ice at one point near the ASB... I mean, you have got to be kidding me with the garbage that Kessel will walk because we're not winning.

Maybe he'll walk because idiots, like those in this thread, will push him out by not appreciating a top-5 scorer in the ****ing NHL. I mean, what more does the guy need to do to get some love. He's never gonna be Wendal Clark... so don't expect it, and let that dream go.

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03-15-2012, 09:18 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Sergei Berezin View Post
This is getting ****ing stupid.

How in the hell are we forced to sit through this kind of awful journalism.

This coming from the same guy who suggested that Nazem Kadri be given #13 (before we even honoured Sundin) only to add pressure to the kid... because he apparently he needs it?


Where does this guy come up with his ****? I was beginning to appreciate some of his thoughts, but this guy is wack.

Think about it this way... what if the Sens sold off Spezza, Phillips, and Alfredsson like what many were speculating last year?

Teams sometimes have off years... hell, for most of the year, the Leafs were considered a playoff lock. I don't think you blowup the team over something like this.


Also, I absolutely hate the argument that Kessel won't work with Carlyle. That's ********. Like I've mentioned before, Teemu Selanne is weaker, and worse defensively than Kessel, and he seemed to thrive under Carlyle.


****'s giving me an ulcer.
It was a well written and argued piece, just because you do not agree with it, you call it yellow journalism?

What specifically is yellow in the piece? I am curious. I hope you read it.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:22 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by StarBurns View Post
Of course they aren't reading the article, they want to crush discussion of this subject entirely.

As for the comparison to Philadelphia, they still had a lot more NHL talent than the Leafs. Kessel for prospects and/or draft picks would be a massive competitive step backwards. Burke isn't getting a contract extension taking that route.
Depends on the picks, but I am assume if Burke moves Kessel, it will be for an experienced player and prospect/picks, he made his bed with the accelerated rebuild. Not going to be picks now. He may even make it bigger by unloading another player on the roster.

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03-15-2012, 09:22 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
This is one of the most used replies when Kessel is discussed in which I say points only tell part of a story. It is one thing to be stats smart and hockey smart. 5th in points and missing the playoffs again. It's not entirely Kessel's fault but this same core of players failed again. Thus no one is untouchable. At work if my team failed 4 straight years I would expect changes in the team.
Can you get at least as good a player as he is if you trade him?

Top 10 in points:

Stamkos
Malkin
Giroux
Spezza
Kessel
Kolvalchuk
Karlsson
Tavarares
Hossa
H.Sedin

Top 10 in goals:

Stamkos
Malkin
Kessel
Gaborik
Perry
Hartnel
Michalek
Neal
Kovalchuk
Tavares


Do you think any of these players are going to be traded? Only in Toronto a top 5 forward can be run out of town.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:22 AM
  #57
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I find it amusing that the people wanting to trade away Kessel also feel that an ideal trade would be Kessel + for Nash...

You've got to be kidding me... You know what? You're right, lets trade away a 24 year old guy hitting his stride as one of the top snipers in the league because we're afraid he'll walk as a UFA for a PWF who (isn't even top 20 in scoring) we'll be paying 7.8 million until he's past his mid 30s...

Ridiculous.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:23 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Around in 67 View Post
easy for some schmuck behind his key board to call out someone on character without having anything to back it up.

ppg player in the playoffs, no matter how small the sample, doesn't say he packs it in when the going gets tough.
The Toronto Maple Leafs did get Kessel because he refused to play another season under Claude Julien.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:24 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by maplehawk View Post
kessel is a great piece added at the complete wrong time.
This is the best way of putting it.

There are a few reasons why I wouldn't trade Kessel at this point:

1. Top 5 in scoring. Seriously...how can any team not use that?

2. When the team is ready to contend and hopefully with a top line centre in place, a Kessel-type player is exactly what would be needed. We already have that.

3. Unfortunately, there is no way we are going to recoup what was given up to bring him here in the first place.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:24 AM
  #60
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Cox has obviously run out of ideas.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:24 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Funny perception, I saw it as he is a good player, but he is not the solution for this team right now. Given our reoccurring failures of making the post season and Kessel's contract situation in 2 years, this may be the time to move him. Not sure where the implication is, proof is we are missing the playoffs again, and are missing leadership qualities. We have tried the tweaks, to no avail. Instead of not doing anything and doing the same thing, you don't think it may be time to re-evaluate the state of the club?
my issue is I know whatever we trade him for, we will likely not get a deal that will likely benefit us in the future. A maybe good prospect that turns out to be a decent top 6 forward or bust and a low first round pick doesn't seem enticing to me. Balancing that with his contract running out in 2 years and his possible trade return, the decision is easy for us to resign him if he wants to stay.

Some people look as this as long term rebuild that we have to restart again and some people look it as some tweaks in key positions and different coaching (see Blues, Rangers (talent to be a playoff team but #1 team didn't see that)). I'm more of seeing how things play out in the next year or two before I decide anything.

Of course if Kessel says or makes it clear he's not resigning, then by all means ship him out now, but he hasn't said one way or another that he's leaning that way. The other issue is the article claims that Kessel and Carlyle cannot co-exist when neither Carlyle or Kessel think there is a problem. I think it's evident that team needs (the issue is that we ) more talented players (more core pieces), better goaltending, and better coaching (systems play). If there are upgrades avaliable for guys like Kessel, then trade him but that way seems unlikely. I don't think Burke sees him as a franchise guy, never saw him as one and only thinks of Kessel as one piece of building his team.

Iarts, does this burn your teeny weeny eyes?


Last edited by Erza Scarlet: 03-15-2012 at 09:30 AM.
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Old
03-15-2012, 09:25 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Landeskog View Post
Kessel should have never had been traded for.
This. Waste of assets since he'll be gone when he's 26

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:25 AM
  #63
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my issue is I know whatever we trade him for, we will likely not get a deal that will likely benefit us in the future. A maybe good prospect that turns out to be a decent top 6 forward or bust and a low first round pick doesn't seem enticing to me. Balancing that with his contract running out in 2 years and his possible trade return, the decision is easy for us to resign him if he wants to stay. Some people look as this as long term rebuild that we have to restart again and some people look it as some tweaks in key positions and different coaching (see Blues, Rangers (talent to be a playoff team but #1 team didn't see that)). I'm more of seeing how things play out in the next year or two before I decide anything. Of course if Kessel says or makes it clear he's not resigning, then by all means ship him out now, but he hasn't said one way or another that he's leaning that way. The other issue is the article claims that Kessel and Carlyle cannot co-exist when neither Carlyle or Kessel think there is a problem. I think it's evident that team needs (the issue is that we ) more talented players (more core pieces), better goaltending, and better coaching (systems play). If there are upgrades avaliable for guys like Kessel, then trade him but that way seems unlikely. I don't think Burke sees him as a franchise guy, never saw him as one and only thinks of Kessel as one piece of building his team.
If you expect someone to read your replies,I suggest you separate it into paragraphs.

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03-15-2012, 09:26 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by iArts View Post
Can you get at least as good a player as he is if you trade him?

Top 10 in points:

Stamkos
Malkin
Giroux
Spezza
Kessel
Kolvalchuk
Karlsson
Tavarares
Hossa
H.Sedin

Top 10 in goals:

Stamkos
Malkin
Kessel
Gaborik
Perry
Hartnel
Michalek
Neal
Kovalchuk
Tavares


Do you think any of these players are going to be traded? Only in Toronto a top 5 forward can be run out of town.
Funny how you left, Weber, Mike Richards and Nash off the list and that was just off the top of my head. They are far better than over half the players on that list. Hypothetical trades are a waste of time here, we don't know what discussions have been held already. We see it all the time. Burke's deals have all come out of left field so you really don't know what has been discussed already. If you think there are no ongoing discussions between GM's, you are not being realistic.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:26 AM
  #65
Sergei Berezin
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It was a well written and argued piece, just because you do not agree with it, you call it yellow journalism?

What specifically is yellow in the piece? I am curious. I hope you read it.
I don't care if it's well written; I could dress my **** up into something that looked better than a piece of ****, but it still smells and is a piece of ****.


I mean, honestly? The main reason to trade Kessel is that he won't resign here as a UFA? Why wouldn't he? He's made a lot of friends here in Toronto, and he's actually comfortable here, unlike most places he's played. I don't get this notion that two weeks into Carlyle's tenure somehow forecasts Kessel displeasure as a Maple Leaf.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:26 AM
  #66
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easy for some schmuck behind his key board to call out someone on character without having anything to back it up.
Just becuse it's easy doesn't mean there's no truth behind it.

What do I need to back up? Soft, lazy, selfish, mentally weak, front-runner, quitter..... did I miss anything? Those are great qualities for a guy we, apparently, should be building around.

Quote:
ppg player in the playoffs, no matter how small the sample, doesn't say he packs it in when the going gets tough.
The going never really got tough for him, since he was a secondary player.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:27 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Funny how you left, Weber, Mike Richards and Nash off the list and that was just off the top of my head. They are far better than over half the players on that list. Hypothetical trades are a waste of time here, we don't know what discussions have been held already. We see it all the time. Burke's deals have all come out of left field so you really don't know what has been discussed already. If you think there are no ongoing discussions between GM's, you are not being realistic.


No they're not.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:28 AM
  #68
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If we get a return equal to what Philly got for Mike Richards, I'm all for it.
I think Kessel is worth a lot less than Richards. Richards brings a lot more to the table.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:28 AM
  #69
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Phil Kessel is 5th in league wide scoring. Clearly the issue in Toronto, not the D, or the Goaltending, or the secondary scoring.

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03-15-2012, 09:28 AM
  #70
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Kessel was the first player I thought of when Aulie was talking about how TBs stars are the hardest workers on the team.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:29 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Just becuse it's easy doesn't mean there's no truth behind it.

What do I need to back up? Soft, lazy, selfish, mentally weak, front-runner, quitter..... did I miss anything? Those are great qualities for a guy we, apparently, should be building around.



The going never really got tough for him, since he was a secondary player.

I strongly disagree with the bolded. Please, give me some further explanation as to why he's any of those.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:29 AM
  #72
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Stamkos can't lead Tampa to playoffs. Must be a bust. Right Cox?

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:30 AM
  #73
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I just figured out what I did wrong here - I actually read the article and understood it. That was dumb of me. I should have just read the title, assumed it was bashing Kessel, and then tell everyone that he's 5th in points.

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:31 AM
  #74
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Funny how you left, Weber, Mike Richards and Nash off the list and that was just off the top of my head. They are far better than over half the players on that list. Hypothetical trades are a waste of time here, we don't know what discussions have been held already. We see it all the time. Burke's deals have all come out of left field so you really don't know what has been discussed already. If you think there are no ongoing discussions between GM's, you are not being realistic.
Wat? It was a list of current top 10 point getter and goal scorers. Go check on NHL.com

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:31 AM
  #75
Sergei Berezin
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The Toronto Maple Leafs did get Kessel because he refused to play another season under Claude Julien.
No he didn't...

He wanted more money than what Boston could offer him.

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