HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

I want Ribs and Dags with Hamilton!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-14-2004, 04:59 PM
  #26
fufonzo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,510
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to fufonzo Send a message via MSN to fufonzo
I wouldn't mind seeing Ribs with the dogs, but we already have two centremen that are looking to improve their game to make the Habs when the NHL resumes (Pleks and Higgins). We also have Locke who would lose a lot of icetime (even though he doesn't have much to lose). I don't agree with Habs4ever though that Kosts would lose his spot. I think they're just giving him limited icetime to get him acustomed to the NA game. He should start getting more soon.
Dags, on the other hand, I would not want to see there at all. I don't even think he deserves a spot on the Habs, nm taking our young guns' spots in the AHL. I do wish that Jarvis would ease up on the whole defensive system a little. We have a lot of very offensively gifted players on the Dogs that I feel are being held back by this system. I really wish RDS would show some Dogs' games.

fufonzo is offline  
Old
11-23-2004, 04:39 PM
  #27
L'abstrait
Registered User
 
L'abstrait's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: St-Henri
Country: Qatar
Posts: 2,109
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to L'abstrait
If only Perezhogin was in NA...

L'abstrait is offline  
Old
11-23-2004, 04:58 PM
  #28
Bulldog fan
Timmy Dogs Alum 1999
 
Bulldog fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: 101York Bld Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by loadie
They both have no place in the AHL. They're both locked out, and the last thing the Dogs need are these 2 taking the places of younger developing players. With the system that Doug is playing, I doubt either would help out a real bunch. If they want to play, go play for the 4 on 4 charity thing going on in Quebec if they don't want to go to Europe.
The two younger developing players they would take the spot of are learning nothing down here right now. Right now we are seeing how to take high scoring CHL players and turn them into Doug Jarvis clones. This type of hockey sucks to watch.
I'd rather see two less players develop in a winning or at least positive attitude than the crap that is happening now.


DOUG JARVIS MUST GO

Bulldog fan is offline  
Old
11-23-2004, 05:15 PM
  #29
CH Wizard
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: preparin for 09 cup
Country: Afghanistan
Posts: 11,690
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to CH Wizard
Quote:
Originally Posted by HABSTRAK
If only Perezhogin was in NA...
Let's cry together .

CH Wizard is offline  
Old
11-23-2004, 05:18 PM
  #30
mad chemist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: quebec city
Posts: 85
vCash: 500
I don't remember were i read it but dagenais ask the montreal canadien management to send him to hamilton and they said no because they just want to devellop young tallent ,and they don't have spot to lose with old players. But for ribiero i don't know if gainey and savard said that to him.

mad chemist is offline  
Old
11-23-2004, 05:21 PM
  #31
CH Wizard
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: preparin for 09 cup
Country: Afghanistan
Posts: 11,690
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to CH Wizard
Quote:
Originally Posted by HABSTRAK
If only Perezhogin was in NA...
Let's cry together .

Seriously , I want Ribs in our team.He'll help us to get some offence and motivate the wingers who'll play with him.We need offense so We'll have to do anything to score goals.That would be the solution.I know We have enough talented players but We have to get offence and quickly because if we'll continue to losing like that We'll be in big troubles (maybe last in the standings?...)

CH Wizard is offline  
Old
11-23-2004, 05:24 PM
  #32
Guriken
Registered User
 
Guriken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Quebec, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 443
vCash: 500
They must learn to win, it's not easy but i'm sure that they will get better soon.

Guriken is offline  
Old
11-23-2004, 05:29 PM
  #33
Next Best Thing*
 
Next Best Thing*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 6,007
vCash: 500
Most of you wouldn't even care of hamilton's situation if it weren't for the lockout.. save maybe a few.

Next Best Thing* is offline  
Old
11-24-2004, 03:05 AM
  #34
aHab
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Country: Finland
Posts: 46
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EaGLE1
Ribeiro could help...

But no Dagenais please
And how exactly would it be a bad thing to have Canadiens most efficient goal scorer from last season back in Hamilton?

During his last visit in AHL and Hamilton, Dagenais scored 12 goals in 20 games. We're talking about a team here that simply can't put the puck to the net at the moment...

aHab is offline  
Old
11-24-2004, 07:15 AM
  #35
Stefan_Latulippe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,878
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien
But the whole point is that this is a development team, and we are trying to develop these players as future NHLers, which in the case of many of them means learning to player better defense, and learning to play systematic hockey. That's probably the goal. Winning would just be a bonus, but comes second to the goal of teaching the players.
Good post.

Are we teaching kids how to score goals as well or only to prevent goals? Guys like Ferland and Ward need help on the other part of the game, you know the one where you are suppose to score goals!!!

Stefan_Latulippe is offline  
Old
11-24-2004, 08:41 AM
  #36
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 18,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan_Latulippe
Good post.

Are we teaching kids how to score goals as well or only to prevent goals?
Prevent goals.
Quote:
Guys like Ferland and Ward need help on the other part of the game, you know the one where you are suppose to score goals!!!
Ferland and Ward will never be on a scoring line in the NHL. They don't need to know how to score goals, and there is ample evidence that they just don't have the talent to do it anyway. So the best thing to do is teach them to improve their defensive play, and their skating skills outside of games, because those are things they can improve on.

As the theory goes, you can't teach kids how to score goals. So I guess that doesn't come into play in the development team. You can teach them to play defense, and you can work on their physical skills (which, as a side effect might help them score goals).

Blind Gardien is offline  
Old
11-24-2004, 08:50 AM
  #37
Stefan_Latulippe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,878
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien
Prevent goals.

Ferland and Ward will never be on a scoring line in the NHL. They don't need to know how to score goals, and there is ample evidence that they just don't have the talent to do it anyway. So the best thing to do is teach them to improve their defensive play, and their skating skills outside of games, because those are things they can improve on.

As the theory goes, you can't teach kids how to score goals. So I guess that doesn't come into play in the development team. You can teach them to play defense, and you can work on their physical skills (which, as a side effect might help them score goals).
So the AHL is a defensive league. Every teams is showing kids how to dump the puck. That's why is it so boring. We rely on science to prevent goals and on LUCK to score them.

Stefan_Latulippe is offline  
Old
11-24-2004, 09:08 AM
  #38
ti-vite
Registered User
 
ti-vite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,073
vCash: 500
Dagenais playing in europe. That funny. Leagues based on speed don't need a cone on the ice, even he knows his game is totally unsuited for europe.

Ribeiro on the other hand...

ti-vite is offline  
Old
11-24-2004, 10:27 AM
  #39
Squeaky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan_Latulippe
So the AHL is a defensive league. Every teams is showing kids how to dump the puck. That's why is it so boring. We rely on science to prevent goals and on LUCK to score them.
Way to take something somebody said, distort it beyond reality, and then toss in a bit about dumping the puck, just for fun.

But for the most part, yeah, the AHL is becoming a defensive league. They may aswell, the NHL has been for years now. As for dumping the puck...that's not even what defensive hockey is about. Defense is all about what you do without the puck, not what you do with it. Sure some defensive teams dump the puck a lot, but it's not like it's the staple of their game.

Squeaky is offline  
Old
11-24-2004, 10:34 AM
  #40
Stefan_Latulippe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,878
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky
Way to take something somebody said, distort it beyond reality, and then toss in a bit about dumping the puck, just for fun.

But for the most part, yeah, the AHL is becoming a defensive league. They may aswell, the NHL has been for years now. As for dumping the puck...that's not even what defensive hockey is about. Defense is all about what you do without the puck, not what you do with it. Sure some defensive teams dump the puck a lot, but it's not like it's the staple of their game.
I did not distort reality, that's what he said. You cant teach offense. So, what are showing our kids in Hamilton?

New Kid in Hamilton: Hey Coach Jarvis, on a 2 one 1, what should I do if I do have the puck?
Jarvis: Well, I dont know....Dump it!

New Kid in Hamilton: Hey, I have a problem with my wrist shot, could you help me with that.
Jarvis: Well, dont use it, dump the puck with a hard slapper.
Have you seen Russia vs Q?

My point is, I am sure we can still show people how to make a pass and how to shoot. No? Or, after you reach 15-16, that's it, you are done, we cant teach you anything else about hockey, except, where and how to the dump the puck.

Defensive hockey is dumping the puck. What do you do when you are SH? You dump the puck. When you have a lead, you cross de red-line and you dump the puck.

Stefan_Latulippe is offline  
Old
11-24-2004, 12:48 PM
  #41
Squeaky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan_Latulippe
I did not distort reality, that's what he said. You cant teach offense. So, what are showing our kids in Hamilton?

New Kid in Hamilton: Hey Coach Jarvis, on a 2 one 1, what should I do if I do have the puck?
Jarvis: Well, I dont know....Dump it!

New Kid in Hamilton: Hey, I have a problem with my wrist shot, could you help me with that.
Jarvis: Well, dont use it, dump the puck with a hard slapper.
Have you seen Russia vs Q?

My point is, I am sure we can still show people how to make a pass and how to shoot. No? Or, after you reach 15-16, that's it, you are done, we cant teach you anything else about hockey, except, where and how to the dump the puck.

Defensive hockey is dumping the puck. What do you do when you are SH? You dump the puck. When you have a lead, you cross de red-line and you dump the puck.

Squeaky is offline  
Old
11-24-2004, 01:16 PM
  #42
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 18,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky
There is no help, I'm afraid.

Blind Gardien is offline  
Old
11-24-2004, 01:30 PM
  #43
Kirk Muller
Registered User
 
Kirk Muller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brrr -18, Gomez Cold
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,977
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan_Latulippe

My point is, I am sure we can still show people how to make a pass and how to shoot. No? Or, after you reach 15-16, that's it, you are done, we cant teach you anything else about hockey, except, where and how to the dump the puck.

Defensive hockey is dumping the puck. What do you do when you are SH? You dump the puck. When you have a lead, you cross de red-line and you dump the puck.

Actually dumping the puck in is a pretty good offensive tool if taught and done properly, but I guess you knew that. Oh wait I guess you didn't considering you equivalate dumping the puck in with a shorthanded dump in.

A proper dump in has the opponent and you or your teammate reaching the puck at the same time. If done properly, it allows the defenseman to be hit, and hit hard causing turnovers like blindly throwing the puck around the boards, or knocking the man over and taking the puck. It can be the great start to a good forecheck and cycling the puck.

Its not about teaching defensive hockey, its about teaching smart hockey. The absolute worst thing a forward can do is caugh up the puck at the opposing blueline so unless the opportunity to carry in is there, it would be stupid to try to do some fancy move to beat someone one on one.

Kirk Muller is offline  
Old
11-24-2004, 01:58 PM
  #44
Stefan_Latulippe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,878
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13
Its not about teaching defensive hockey, its about teaching smart hockey. The absolute worst thing a forward can do is caugh up the puck at the opposing blueline so unless the opportunity to carry in is there, it would be stupid to try to do some fancy move to beat someone one on one.

I disagree. That's call easy hockey. No need to think. Just dump. Easy to teach. Easy to learn. No talent needed. Just dump. That's it.

It is like in today's hockey, there is only ONE offensive play, which is the dumping of the puck. All I am saying, is that there is other ways. The Russians against the Q, this week. The Q players were dumping, dumping and dumping again. As for the Russians, they were patient, trying to create someting in the neutral zone. That's hockey for me.

The absolute worst thing a forward is MISSING A WIDE OPEN NET like Bulis or Houle in his days. ISO of think defense first, we should think offense first. But hey! It is only me.

Stefan_Latulippe is offline  
Old
11-24-2004, 02:04 PM
  #45
EaGLE1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Quebec City
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,442
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan_Latulippe
I disagree. That's call easy hockey. No need to think. Just dump. Easy to teach. Easy to learn. No talent needed. Just dump. That's it.

It is like in today's hockey, there is only ONE offensive play, which is the dumping of the puck. All I am saying, is that there is other ways. The Russians against the Q, this week. The Q players were dumping, dumping and dumping again. As for the Russians, they were patient, trying to create someting in the neutral zone. That's hockey for me.

The absolute worst thing a forward is MISSING A WIDE OPEN NET like Bulis or Houle in his days. ISO of think defense first, we should think offense first. But hey! It is only me.
Dont worry, after the lock-out, they'll fix the game for good

EaGLE1 is offline  
Old
11-24-2004, 03:14 PM
  #46
Raider917
Registered User
 
Raider917's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,478
vCash: 500
having a team like this in the ahl during a nhl lockout makes it hurt a lot less. if they were showing great progress and were nhl ready already then the lockout would be badly timed.

Raider917 is offline  
Old
11-24-2004, 05:10 PM
  #47
Kirk Muller
Registered User
 
Kirk Muller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brrr -18, Gomez Cold
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,977
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan_Latulippe
I disagree. That's call easy hockey. No need to think. Just dump. Easy to teach. Easy to learn. No talent needed. Just dump. That's it.

It is like in today's hockey, there is only ONE offensive play, which is the dumping of the puck. All I am saying, is that there is other ways. The Russians against the Q, this week. The Q players were dumping, dumping and dumping again. As for the Russians, they were patient, trying to create someting in the neutral zone. That's hockey for me.

The absolute worst thing a forward is MISSING A WIDE OPEN NET like Bulis or Houle in his days. ISO of think defense first, we should think offense first. But hey! It is only me.
And the Quebec team did both, which is smart hockey. You take the puck over the blueline when given the opportunity, and dump it in when it is the smart move. Its funny, all the European leagues are playing more of a North American style hockey, quite a bit of dumping and chase, yet they seem to have this reputation that they are more skilled. If the game is soley about offense for you, thats fine, to bad for you because you missed some great hits and good high energy hockey in that series, cause the only thing you saw was Quebec dump it in.

Kirk Muller is offline  
Old
11-24-2004, 05:14 PM
  #48
CH Wizard
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: preparin for 09 cup
Country: Afghanistan
Posts: 11,690
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to CH Wizard
No Dags plz !! Dags won't learn anything to the youngsters.He'll just shoot liek a crazy in the AHL and float all the time so plz ...

Ribs can help us to provide some offence , He'll help his wingers to look better.I hope Bolldogs will sign him soon.We need offence and QUICKLY !!!!!!!

CH Wizard is offline  
Old
11-24-2004, 05:27 PM
  #49
Stefan_Latulippe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,878
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13
And the Quebec team did both, which is smart hockey. You take the puck over the blueline when given the opportunity, and dump it in when it is the smart move. Its funny, all the European leagues are playing more of a North American style hockey, quite a bit of dumping and chase, yet they seem to have this reputation that they are more skilled. If the game is soley about offense for you, thats fine, to bad for you because you missed some great hits and good high energy hockey in that series, cause the only thing you saw was Quebec dump it in.
I am not all about offense, i am about creativity. I saw both games actually. Skills are at the same level except that European are free to express their creativity while in North America, coaches dont want creativity. They want robot, puck dumpers.

I was thinking about it on my way home and there is now way that Bobby Orr could play HIS style of play in today's NHL. No coach would accept that a player would take the puck from coast to coast. If you rather see puck dumpers than that type of play, that's fine with me.

Stefan_Latulippe is offline  
Old
11-24-2004, 05:37 PM
  #50
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 18,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan_Latulippe
I am not all about offense, i am about creativity. I saw both games actually. Skills are at the same level except that European are free to express their creativity while in North America, coaches dont want creativity. They want robot, puck dumpers.

I was thinking about it on my way home and there is now way that Bobby Orr could play HIS style of play in today's NHL. No coach would accept that a player would take the puck from coast to coast. If you rather see puck dumpers than that type of play, that's fine with me.
I think that using the term "puck dumpers" is too simplistic. What Hockey Canada and the Q honchos did in making this team to play against the Russians was they took a lot of "pro style" players. That included grinders like Lalibert, Dixon, Cabana, Jacques, M-A Bernier, Boisclair, Saunders, etc. They could have had a more talented zippy team if they wanted to. But they weren't just dumping the puck. The NHL doesn't necessarily want "puck dumpers". That's too simple. But they do want guys with size, guys who can skate, and guys who won't play as individuals but rather conform to a system, and who will pay strict attention to their neutral zone and defensive zone assignments.

The NHL wants robots, I agree, but they want robots who will play hard and effectively in all 3 zones, and puck dumping doesn't come into it. If they can play hard and effectively in all 3 zones whilst carrying the puck around the entire opposing team, well and good. If they can do all that while dumping and chasing, that will do too. If they can do it a little bit of both ways like the Q team seemed to accomplish, that's the norm.

I agree that Bobby Orr wouldn't quite be the same Bobby Orr if he played today, but comparisons across eras is a bit of a zero-sum game. A truly generational star player will tend to make his own rules, and the game will start to evolve around him. So if somebody comes along who can do the things against today's players that Orr could against the players of his day, he won't be left out in the cold. But by the same token, I'll be amazed if Patrick Coulombe ever makes the NHL.

Blind Gardien is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:02 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.