HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Burke ‘inclined’ to keep Leafs' first-rounder

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-15-2012, 01:03 PM
  #51
Ruski
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 704
vCash: 500
Burke is WAY more likely to trade up (if we end up in the top 5) then to trade down or trade away completely.

Look at how hard it has been to acquire a #1 center for the Leafs. Nash is not even an option anymore unless we can move ~$10mil in salary (i.e. komi, connolly, lombardi, etc.)

There is a clear opportunity to draft a bonifide #1 center with Yakupov, Grigorenko and maybe even Galchenuk.

If will cost, but nothing like Nash would cost us.

Leafs 6th Overall + Schenn FOR Columbus 1st Overall
Leafs 3rd Overall + 2nd rounder FOR Columbus 1st Overall (Columbus can still get a top Center at 3rd overall).

Not to mention if Columbus moves Nash at the draft, they maybe looking at having another 1st round pick in this draft.

Quite plausible, but really depends on where leafs finish and how the draft lottery plays out.

Ruski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:04 PM
  #52
ACC1224
Steelers 1 - 1
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 28,325
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhorse1280 View Post
Yes.

The dealbreaker was that Burke would only part with Schenn straight up but Lombardi wanted Frattin included as well who is considered a Dustin Brown-lite at the moment.
I've never heard Burke or Lombardi mention that.

ACC1224 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:05 PM
  #53
LetzgoEggo
Registered User
 
LetzgoEggo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 848
vCash: 500
I have to admit, I have read a lot about the top 10 guys in this draft and I'm starting to understand why they are calling this a weak draft. Man I need some positive Leaf news!

LetzgoEggo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:05 PM
  #54
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 60,024
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
I'm sure the vast majority of fans would be happy if Burke traded the pick for a recognizable name.
No question, and that is why so many support Burke and his accelerated rebuild process plan, because of a lack of patience in building through the draft.

Season ticket holders that have to pay good money to see games at the ACC, could care less if Leafs have a high-end prospect playing in Sarnia or Red Deer or NCAA or Leksand in the SEL .. Give them an NHLer for picks and prospects everytime.

"Draft schmaft" caters to the largest portion of Leaf Nation fan base, and that is why its the rebuild plan of choice that MLSE chooses to undertake and endorse its GMs to follow.

Knowing this as well as mounting pressure to make the playoffs places the odds of Leafs trading the pick at greater than 50% odds at present.

Mess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:06 PM
  #55
weems
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,250
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
No question, and that is why so many support Burke and his accelerated rebuild process plan, because of a lack of patience in building through the draft.

Season ticket holders that have to pay good money to see games at the ACC, could care less if Leafs have a high-end prospect playing in Sarnia or Red Deer or NCAA or Leksand in the SEL .. Give them an NHLer for picks and prospects everytime.

"Draft schmaft" caters to the largest portion of Leaf Nation fan base, and that is why its the rebuild plan of choice that MLSE chooses to undertake and endorse its GMs to follow.
Great post and 100% spot on.

weems is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:07 PM
  #56
ACC1224
Steelers 1 - 1
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 28,325
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruski View Post
Burke is WAY more likely to trade up (if we end up in the top 5) then to trade down or trade away completely.

Look at how hard it has been to acquire a #1 center for the Leafs. Nash is not even an option anymore unless we can move ~$10mil in salary (i.e. komi, connolly, lombardi, etc.)

There is a clear opportunity to draft a bonifide #1 center with Yakupov, Grigorenko and maybe even Galchenuk.

If will cost, but nothing like Nash would cost us.

Leafs 6th Overall + Schenn FOR Columbus 1st Overall
Leafs 3rd Overall + 2nd rounder FOR Columbus 1st Overall (Columbus can still get a top Center at 3rd overall).

Not to mention if Columbus moves Nash at the draft, they maybe looking at having another 1st round pick in this draft.

Quite plausible, but really depends on where leafs finish and how the draft lottery plays out.
I was under the impression that Yakupov was something special.

ACC1224 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:08 PM
  #57
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 55,767
vCash: 500
Obviously, Burke would be talking about moving the pick, keeping the pick, and/or acquiring another pick.

That's his job.

No one should poop on Burke for doing his job.

Now you poop on him for the season they are having, it is his team. And he is the GM and President and ultimately he is responsible. He isn't getting all that money to not be responsible.

I'm not sure Columbus would move their pick unless something like Kessel was coming back. And if the talk about the BJ's trying to improve the team to keep Nash happy then maybe something like that could happen. I just don't see them passing up the opportunity of landing an elite player for anything less than a Toews forward.

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA3LN_8hjM8.

Vaive and Ludzik on collapse, and Phaneuf.
ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:09 PM
  #58
ACC1224
Steelers 1 - 1
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 28,325
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
No question, and that is why so many support Burke and his accelerated rebuild process plan, because of a lack of patience in building through the draft.

Season ticket holders that have to pay good money to see games at the ACC, could care less if Leafs have a high-end prospect playing in Sarnia or Red Deer or NCAA or Leksand in the SEL .. Give them an NHLer for picks and prospects everytime.

"Draft schmaft" caters to the largest portion of Leaf Nation fan base, and that is why its the rebuild plan of choice that MLSE chooses to undertake and endorse its GMs to follow.

Knowing this as well as mounting pressure to make the playoffs places the odds of Leafs trading the pick at greater than 50% odds at present.
So they choose the path based on what they think the Fans will like?

ACC1224 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:10 PM
  #59
Darkhorse1280
Registered User
 
Darkhorse1280's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: York Region
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,425
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruski View Post
Burke is WAY more likely to trade up (if we end up in the top 5) then to trade down or trade away completely.

Look at how hard it has been to acquire a #1 center for the Leafs. Nash is not even an option anymore unless we can move ~$10mil in salary (i.e. komi, connolly, lombardi, etc.)

There is a clear opportunity to draft a bonifide #1 center with Yakupov, Grigorenko and maybe even Galchenuk.

If will cost, but nothing like Nash would cost us.

Leafs 6th Overall + Schenn FOR Columbus 1st Overall
Leafs 3rd Overall + 2nd rounder FOR Columbus 1st Overall (Columbus can still get a top Center at 3rd overall).


Not to mention if Columbus moves Nash at the draft, they maybe looking at having another 1st round pick in this draft.

Quite plausible, but really depends on where leafs finish and how the draft lottery plays out.

If you think that's gonna be the price to move up, you're sorely mistaken. It will be alot more if Columbus is even considering moving it.

Just look back at the '09 draft when Burke was trying to move up from 7th to 2nd overall. The price to move up was our 7th overall, our 2nd round pick, Schenn, and Kaberle (who was still playing decent hockey at the time.)

It's gonna be pretty costly as Howson is looking to hit a home-run in any deal involving the 1st.

Darkhorse1280 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:17 PM
  #60
Darkhorse1280
Registered User
 
Darkhorse1280's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: York Region
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,425
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
I've never heard Burke or Lombardi mention that.
So because neither of them mentioned it (which GM's hardly ever do to the press), they weren't in trade negotiations with one another?

There were actually in negotiations up until Bob Mckenzie broke the news on Insider Trading that Dustin Brown was available, then Lombardi cooled off completely as he was clandestinely shopping him to a handful of contenders at the time (including the Leafs).

Burke also said in his post Trade Deadline presser that if he traded Matt Frattin, then he's telling his scouts to find him another Matt Frattin. Why would he single out his name only when the usual suspects (Kulie, Mac, Grabo) etc were subject to more trade speculation?


Last edited by Darkhorse1280: 03-15-2012 at 01:25 PM.
Darkhorse1280 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:21 PM
  #61
FishManSam
Bobs Yummy Burgers!
 
FishManSam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: I Bet You Hate T.O
Country: Croatia
Posts: 4,930
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruski View Post
Burke is WAY more likely to trade up (if we end up in the top 5) then to trade down or trade away completely.

Look at how hard it has been to acquire a #1 center for the Leafs. Nash is not even an option anymore unless we can move ~$10mil in salary (i.e. komi, connolly, lombardi, etc.)

There is a clear opportunity to draft a bonifide #1 center with Yakupov, Grigorenko and maybe even Galchenuk.

If will cost, but nothing like Nash would cost us.

Leafs 6th Overall + Schenn FOR Columbus 1st Overall
Leafs 3rd Overall + 2nd rounder FOR Columbus 1st Overall (Columbus can still get a top Center at 3rd overall).

Not to mention if Columbus moves Nash at the draft, they maybe looking at having another 1st round pick in this draft.

Quite plausible, but really depends on where leafs finish and how the draft lottery plays out.
Yakupov is a LWer.

FishManSam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:25 PM
  #62
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 60,024
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
So they choose the path based on what they think the Fans will like?
Obviously, as the fans are the client to MLSE and the ones that pay the bills.

Its the fans money that makes them rich, so of course they will cater to their target market when attempting to extract it ($$) while attempting to run a profitable business. Every successful business operates under that principle not just the Leafs.

You're a season ticket holder and you likely would love to see this pick bundled with a few Marlies/prospects and watch Rick Nash skating down the wing in Blue and White while attending games next year. You said earlier "I'm sure the vast majority of fans would be happy if Burke traded the pick for a recognizable name"..

You're buying tickets, paying for parking, eating a Burke hot dog and washing it down with your favorite beverage, wearing your Leafs jersey with the "recognizable name" printed on the back, while attending home games. So when you renew your season ticket package for next season, you would be solidifying my point, because you're the fan in the story that MLSE is catering to.

__________________
Signature: There is no greater demonstration of Fan patience then to suggest to "Play the Kids " and be willing to accept the consequences of those actions..

Last edited by Mess: 03-15-2012 at 01:42 PM.
Mess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:25 PM
  #63
Ruski
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 704
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhorse1280 View Post
If you think that's gonna be the price to move up, you're sorely mistaken. It will be alot more if Columbus is even considering moving it.

Just look back at the '09 draft when Burke was trying to move up from 7th to 2nd overall. The price to move up was our 7th overall, our 2nd round pick, Schenn, and Kaberle (who was still playing decent hockey at the time.)

It's gonna be pretty costly as Howson is looking to hit a home-run in any deal involving the 1st.
Fair enough...if that in fact is the case...that we would be looking at trading two 1sts ++ just to move 3-5 spots, then we should just keep our pick, and draft either of the 3 centers in the top 10.

Obviously we won't know until the lottery is done the exact order, but you have to believe that some of the teams in the Top5 will go for the big defensive prospects.

If Yakupov is valued that high by other teams (which he may be)...i would hedge my bets on Grigorenko or Galchenuk.

I dont see ANY scenario where Nash will stay in Columbus after the bridges that were burned in the last few months. At the same time, Columbus has an opportunity to trade nash for picks AND a top forward. I bet Columbus would consider moving down(acquiring another asset or two), drafting a defencemen somewhere in the top 8 picks.

For example say we are 5th and Columbus 1st. Say they get Schenn + our 3rd rounder. Then they trade Nash for atleast 2 first rounders + 1 NHL player. Now they maybe drafting twice in the top 10, have Schenn + whatever they got for Nash + any future picks.

Could be a great way to boost that rebuild.

Anyway, i dont know enough about the top 10 prospects in this draft...outside the 3 russians and Dumba. All a guessing game until we get to the lottery....should be fun draft day though!

Ruski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:45 PM
  #64
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 55,767
vCash: 500
Burke traded McCabe and the following year's 1st. round pick to get his 2nd. 1st. rounder to draft the Sedins.

Would a similar deal be Phaneuf and a ?? to get the Oilers 1st. rounder?

Oilers probably have lived enough of the tank life and might think it is time to add some vets.

ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:46 PM
  #65
KeziaTML
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 1,339
vCash: 279
Kessel is only 5th in NHL scoring... Of course it was a bad trade.

KeziaTML is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:51 PM
  #66
edwardslane
Registered User
 
edwardslane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 962
vCash: 500
Once we know our gauranteed position at the end of the season it'll be interesting! wherever we finish we can potentially move back 1 slot if a team below us wins the lottery but that's it.

The way things are looking i just want to finish at least 5th worst.. a chance to move up and that would gaurantee us an elite forward if we chose to draft one.

Yakupov, Galchenyuk, Greigorenko, or Forsberg. You can't lose with any of those guys. Then Defenceman wise there are some beauties as well in Dumba and Murray.

I think Edmonton takes Dumba,Murray, reilly, or reinhart.

I'm not sure what Carolina would take to be honest.. they could use either a D man or forward..

Islanders are taking a D man.. so they'll take whichever edmonton doesn't take imo when they pick.. unless they move up and win the lottery.

It's funny because we all want the leafs to take a #1 center so winning the lottery puts us in a funny spot.. we could potentially move down to #3 if we won the lottery if we knew columbus wanted yakupov and edmonton Dumba.. If we had our sights set on Grigorenko or galchenyuk we would make something happen..

winning the lottery would you want burke to take yakupov?? the clear consensous #1? or draft a position of need in a #1 center.

Man oh man the options he'd have would be over whelming.. that would put their front office to work@!

edwardslane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:52 PM
  #67
vezna*
Canada's Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 8,666
vCash: 500
Burke shouldn't trade next year's pick either. I don't see this team making the playoffs.

vezna* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:53 PM
  #68
John-Eric Iannicello
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Windsor
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,284
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Burke traded McCabe and the following year's 1st. round pick to get his 2nd. 1st. rounder to draft the Sedins.

Would a similar deal be Phaneuf and a ?? to get the Oilers 1st. rounder?

Oilers probably have lived enough of the tank life and might think it is time to add some vets.
I suggested something similar, but involving Schenn. (Not that I truly believe it to happen, was just throwing a hypothetical).

That deal was McCabe (24 at the time IIRC) and the following seasons first round pick (yr: 2000 - turned into Vorobiev I think), for the 4th overall selection in 1999.

Then they used the 4th overall to move up I believe to get into Sedin territory.

__________________
Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/JE_Iannicello
John-Eric Iannicello is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:56 PM
  #69
andrewmn
Registered User
 
andrewmn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,068
vCash: 500
It sounds like Burke isn't exactly committed to NOT dealing away the pick for another handful of magic beans.

I worry he'll do something rash in a fit of panic.

andrewmn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:59 PM
  #70
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Reads "listening to offers"

Computes in brain

Result: "Burke is trying desperately to trade the pick for anything!!!"

mooseOAK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:59 PM
  #71
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 60,024
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Burke traded McCabe and the following year's 1st. round pick to get his 2nd. 1st. rounder to draft the Sedins.

Would a similar deal be Phaneuf and a ?? to get the Oilers 1st. rounder?

Oilers probably have lived enough of the tank life and might think it is time to add some vets.
Timing is everything.

Burke however is a buyer and not a seller and the longer the non playoff drought continues the shorter his Leafs tenure becomes.

Taking Leafs down the path you suggest would be more likely of Leafs next GM and his rebuild attempt.

It might very well be true that Oilers are at a position in their draft rebuild process to trade their top pick for instant help, but Burke is also holding up the "for sale" when dangling Leafs own pick for instant help as both GMs agendas for immediate improvement coincide on that basis, and thus making them unlikely trade partners. IMO

As this article suggests that Burke is already listening to offers for his pick and he knows full well the higher it becomes the greater trade value currency it has, and therefore the greater return he can expect to gain to fuel his rebuild from it. If Burke wanted more 1st rounders he would have been a seller at the trade deadline to obtain that commodity and then he could have bundled multiple 1sts to move up in the draft.

Mess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:59 PM
  #72
FishManSam
Bobs Yummy Burgers!
 
FishManSam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: I Bet You Hate T.O
Country: Croatia
Posts: 4,930
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardslane View Post
Once we know our gauranteed position at the end of the season it'll be interesting! wherever we finish we can potentially move back 1 slot if a team below us wins the lottery but that's it.

The way things are looking i just want to finish at least 5th worst.. a chance to move up and that would gaurantee us an elite forward if we chose to draft one.

Yakupov, Galchenyuk, Greigorenko, or Forsberg. You can't lose with any of those guys. Then Defenceman wise there are some beauties as well in Dumba and Murray.

I think Edmonton takes Dumba,Murray, reilly, or reinhart.

I'm not sure what Carolina would take to be honest.. they could use either a D man or forward..

Islanders are taking a D man.. so they'll take whichever edmonton doesn't take imo when they pick.. unless they move up and win the lottery.

It's funny because we all want the leafs to take a #1 center so winning the lottery puts us in a funny spot.. we could potentially move down to #3 if we won the lottery if we knew columbus wanted yakupov and edmonton Dumba.. If we had our sights set on Grigorenko or galchenyuk we would make something happen..

winning the lottery would you want burke to take yakupov?? the clear consensous #1? or draft a position of need in a #1 center.

Man oh man the options he'd have would be over whelming.. that would put their front office to work@!
Draft Yakupov, trade Kessel for Tavares.

FishManSam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 02:01 PM
  #73
edwardslane
Registered User
 
edwardslane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 962
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Burke traded McCabe and the following year's 1st. round pick to get his 2nd. 1st. rounder to draft the Sedins.

Would a similar deal be Phaneuf and a ?? to get the Oilers 1st. rounder?

Oilers probably have lived enough of the tank life and might think it is time to add some vets.
That's a very interesting proposition.

Phaneuf is from edmonton and is good for 40+ points a year when healthy. he adds size and strength to their D.. some defensive short commings would be better hidden with the forward group the oilers have.

The leafs save 6.5 million on the cap and now can wait for a leader to emerge in a winning system instead of just tossing the C on someone like they did with phaneuf.
+ the leafs would be another top pick.

if the leafs drafted X2 in the top 5 in the 2012 draft that would be massive moving forward.

they could take Dumba + Galchenyuk.. Or whatever combination they chose man that would rock.

i think someone like edmonton would be an ideal trading partner with the leafs to move phaneuf. I like phaneuf but i wouldn't be heart broken if that was our return.

edwardslane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 02:07 PM
  #74
BlueBaron
Registered User
 
BlueBaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto, On
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,482
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardslane View Post
Once we know our gauranteed position at the end of the season it'll be interesting! wherever we finish we can potentially move back 1 slot if a team below us wins the lottery but that's it.

The way things are looking i just want to finish at least 5th worst.. a chance to move up and that would gaurantee us an elite forward if we chose to draft one.

Yakupov, Galchenyuk, Greigorenko, or Forsberg. You can't lose with any of those guys. Then Defenceman wise there are some beauties as well in Dumba and Murray.

I think Edmonton takes Dumba,Murray, reilly, or reinhart.

I'm not sure what Carolina would take to be honest.. they could use either a D man or forward..

Islanders are taking a D man.. so they'll take whichever edmonton doesn't take imo when they pick.. unless they move up and win the lottery.

It's funny because we all want the leafs to take a #1 center so winning the lottery puts us in a funny spot.. we could potentially move down to #3 if we won the lottery if we knew columbus wanted yakupov and edmonton Dumba.. If we had our sights set on Grigorenko or galchenyuk we would make something happen..

winning the lottery would you want burke to take yakupov?? the clear consensous #1? or draft a position of need in a #1 center.

Man oh man the options he'd have would be over whelming.. that would put their front office to work@!
It would be a great position to be in, I had been thinking this myself. I'm kind of of the mind Grigorenko might be a better fit for us and I guess he goes anywhere from 2-5 depending on teams needs and ratings of the players.

That said, hard to resist the best player available, Yakupov could take MacArthurs spot on the second line right away and create an asset in making him expendable.

If we took one of the Centers how long would it be before they could step in on Kessels line ? Yakupov seems to be the only choice that would instantly improve our team.

BlueBaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 02:08 PM
  #75
Leafsfan64
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 784
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
And here comes the ****-storm!
No matter what Burke says, there is a ****-storm! Leafs fans need to smarten up, and be patient.

Leafsfan64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:48 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.