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Upset with team, happy with core!

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Old
03-15-2012, 11:41 AM
  #1
Leafsman
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Upset with team, happy with core!

It is no surprise that Leafs nation has been up in arms over recent events. The disappointment is great after it looked for a long time the teamw oudl break it's playoff slump.

God forbid someone on these boards actually show hope for the core of this team because you'd be flooded with a dozen absurd reasons why you shoudln't be! But don't **** on my hope for the core because of the result's of the team! I'm not upset about the result's of the team BECAUSE THIS ISN'T THE TEAM! It contains peices of the team and a whole lot of fillers and probee's (probationary players).

I feel many members of the Core have been quite successful this year! It has been the fillers/probee's that hindered this team but thansk to them we'll likely be grabbing a pretty nice lottery pick!

Let's look at the core:

Kessel: Career year, may hit 40 goals and one of the league's best scorers all year
Lupul: Career year, would've hit 30 barring injury, most consistent player
Grabs: Many nights best player, career year? Signed long term - best center available!
Kulemin: Well all I can sayis OUCH!! Contract year too!! BUY LOW BURKIE!!
Mac: I feel most underrated player on team, probably career high in goals!
Frattin: Can be physical and play with the big boys!! Enjoyed watching him
Brown: All I have to say is it's Mike Brown

Phaneuf: Jury's out, have to see how he'll play under RC
Liles: Was an amazing pickup pre-injury and fully recovered, a great peice!
Gunner: Most consistent dman hands down and will be excellent under RC
Gardiner: Simply awesome! Amazing find and will be a corenrstone for years!
Schenn: Jury's outy on him to, gotta see what he'll do under RC

Reimer: ??? Sophomore Slump?? Gotta wait and see.

As you can see the actual team has played very well and gives me great hope for the future. EVen a couple questionable peices like Bozak, Steckle and Rosehill have been decent but I don't see them being the team we are all gonna see when Burke is done.

The problem comes from those peices that have not worked out and are nearing the end of their contract and are

Connolly, Lombo, Komi, Armstrong, Crabb.

There are some question marks on defense but those are arguably the players that will benefit more from a RC style of game than a RW style.

You can all cry doom and gloom but the end result was a inexperienced goalie duo, soem tryout players or vets that have not worked out and are on theri last leg and likely know it, an ex-coach who tried to outscore his problems and got burned!

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03-15-2012, 11:44 AM
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A great core should mean a playoff team. The bit pieces should not be responsible for a bad team therefore there has to be changes to the core because the results they have produced are pretty bad.

There is also a leadership problem within the core. That must be addressed as well in order to get to the next step.

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03-15-2012, 11:44 AM
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kypreos said something that made sense for a change (fan590 thu morn)

"win or lose it doesnt matter, it's good carlyle is here right now to better asess what he has to work with, rather than in september.
and see BB, coaching doesn't make much difference with this group that you've assembled...

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03-15-2012, 11:45 AM
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you can't have a true "core" without a #1C.

Get a #1C, #1D, #1G. Build around those three

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03-15-2012, 11:45 AM
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You can go on and on about the core but its still lacking a #1C, #1G and a #1D and I dont see anyone in our system that will fill any of those roles going forward. Sure the farm has a plethora of 2nd/3rd line potential forwards and solid depth defencemen but I dont see many truly elite talents. With all the losing this team has done over the past few years we should certainly have at least one of those very important positions covered.

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03-15-2012, 11:48 AM
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No team can do anything significant without a True #1c. You can disagree but just look at all of the successful teams in this league. Going into a season with two goalies with no more then 80 games played combined was a huge mistake.

With that said i agree with your assessment. The medias job is to report and get people to read. Well the sky is falling right now, however it isnt really. The team is young and developing and have a draft pick. This team was never destined to compete in the playoffs. Im happy with where we are in the rebuild. I mean the objective is not to make the playoffs its to win a cup. The media can cry about missing for 4 years under Burke, but personally id prefer to miss if i knew we weren't going to make it out of the 1st round.

I am so thankful for Gardiner. Wouldnt take a single player outside of Yakupov in this years draft over him.

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03-15-2012, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
kypreos said something that made sense for a change (fan590 thu morn)

"win or lose it doesnt matter, it's good carlyle is here right now to better asess what he has to work with, rather than in september.
and see BB, coaching doesn't make much difference with this group that you've assembled...
Burke said he didn't expect an immediate improvement. Said something like "historically.. blah blah"

Carlyle was obviously brought in for the other reasons stated above.

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03-15-2012, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
A great core should mean a playoff team. The bit pieces should not be responsible for a bad team therefore there has to be changes to the core because the results they have produced are pretty bad.

There is also a leadership problem within the core. That must be addressed as well in order to get to the next step.
It was!!! Go ask Ron Wilson!!


A great core equals playoffs when it is completed. It is not yet completed!

The offense of this team is completed and when operating close to 100% is among the best in the league!

The defense has been sub-par but alot of that can be contributed to thethird line being comprised of deadweight instead of defensively minded grinders!

Plus one of the biggest probee's was the goaltending duo which had to be put on trial and failed huge! You can have an incredible core but the goaltending is far from done. Burke has built-from-the net out but started it too early!! Most of teh system is in the minors and Reimer wasn;t ready to take over!~

Burke needs to fix goaltending and build that core of truculence that he promised! Other than that, time will prove just how great this core of players will be!

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03-15-2012, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
It was!!! Go ask Ron Wilson!!


A great core equals playoffs when it is completed. It is not yet completed!

The offense of this team is completed and when operating close to 100% is among the best in the league!

The defense has been sub-par but alot of that can be contributed to thethird line being comprised of deadweight instead of defensively minded grinders!

Plus one of the biggest probee's was the goaltending duo which had to be put on trial and failed huge! You can have an incredible core but the goaltending is far from done. Burke has built-from-the net out but started it too early!! Most of teh system is in the minors and Reimer wasn;t ready to take over!~

Burke needs to fix goaltending and build that core of truculence that he promised! Other than that, time will prove just how great this core of players will be!
You have identified 13 players as your core that you are happy with. How big should the core of a hockey team be?

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03-15-2012, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
It was!!! Go ask Ron Wilson!!


A great core equals playoffs when it is completed. It is not yet completed!

The offense of this team is completed and when operating close to 100% is among the best in the league!

The defense has been sub-par but alot of that can be contributed to thethird line being comprised of deadweight instead of defensively minded grinders!

Plus one of the biggest probee's was the goaltending duo which had to be put on trial and failed huge! You can have an incredible core but the goaltending is far from done. Burke has built-from-the net out but started it too early!! Most of teh system is in the minors and Reimer wasn;t ready to take over!~

Burke needs to fix goaltending and build that core of truculence that he promised! Other than that, time will prove just how great this core of players will be!
The teams offence is completed?

So we plan to compete with no #1 C, no real size and grit and hardly any net presence?

This teams offence isnt that great. Just looked alot better under Wilson because he implemented a system that was willing to trade premium chances and be in alot of high scoring games. Put this offence in a playoff series against a strong defensive team and they wouldnt do jack.

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03-15-2012, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
You have identified 13 players as your core that you are happy with. How big should the core of a hockey team be?
are you saying this team should have been a cup contender this season? I mean really? This team is "BUILDING". Did you expect the rest of the core to appear out of thin air?

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03-15-2012, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
you can't have a true "core" without a #1C.

Get a #1C, #1D, #1G. Build around those three
Boston.

And only in toronto is Mike Brown a "core player" lmao...

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03-15-2012, 12:00 PM
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Leafsman
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You can go on and on about the core but its still lacking a #1C, #1G and a #1D and I dont see anyone in our system that will fill any of those roles going forward. Sure the farm has a plethora of 2nd/3rd line potential forwards and solid depth defencemen but I dont see many truly elite talents. With all the losing this team has done over the past few years we should certainly have at least one of those very important positions covered.
I can not agree more about the #1G, Burke took a gamble in order to see where our goaltending stood and it blew up in his face! Granted he'll land a great pick that I feel can be greatly attributed to the goaltending but it def did not work!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
No team can do anything significant without a True #1c. You can disagree but just look at all of the successful teams in this league. Going into a season with two goalies with no more then 80 games played combined was a huge mistake.

.

I would love to hear some people's definition of what a 1C is? Not to single you guys out!! But are you talking scoring or defensive play??

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03-15-2012, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
You have identified 13 players as your core that you are happy with. How big should the core of a hockey team be?
23 players????? Why how big do you think it should be!

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03-15-2012, 12:03 PM
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Boston.

And only in toronto is Mike Brown a "core player" lmao...
Don't underestimate the value of a Mike Brown on your 4th line! Every team needs a good heart and soul guy!

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03-15-2012, 12:06 PM
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23 players????? Why how big do you think it should be!
23 players is an entire roster including reserves. A core to me is all the key pieces including role players. 8 - 10 skaters and a goalie.

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03-15-2012, 12:06 PM
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I only see 2 guys who should be courted as core guys Phaneuf and Kessel and perhaps maybe Lupul if he repeats. So perhaps you have 3 of the 6 holes covered.

#1 RW Kessel
#1 C ?
#1 LW Lupul? or someone defensively responsible with offence

#1D?
#2D Phaneuf, (Schenn?)

#1G ?

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03-15-2012, 12:08 PM
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Leafsman
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Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
23 players is an entire roster including reserves. A core to me is all the key pieces including role players. 8 - 10 skaters and a goalie.
What ?!?!?! The core of a team should encompass the entire team! Granted having all 23 players is a little far-fetched but you build an entire team not under half a team ?!?!? Actually I woudl go as far as to say 23+ as it should encompass your prospects going forward too!

The team rigth now is a result of building an 8-10 person core!

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03-15-2012, 12:11 PM
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are you saying this team should have been a cup contender this season?
No...thier manager Brain Burke said that.

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03-15-2012, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
What ?!?!?! The core of a team should encompass the entire team! Granted having all 23 players is a little far-fetched but you build an entire team not under half a team ?!?!? Actually I woudl go as far as to say 23+ as it should encompass your prospects going forward too!

The team rigth now is a result of building an 8-10 person core!
No the core by definition is a sub group that you build around. aka nucleus. It isn't close to 23 players. Hence the term "build around the core"

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03-15-2012, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
What ?!?!?! The core of a team should encompass the entire team! Granted having all 23 players is a little far-fetched but you build an entire team not under half a team ?!?!? Actually I woudl go as far as to say 23+ as it should encompass your prospects going forward too!

The team rigth now is a result of building an 8-10 person core!
A core is the base, not the whole thing. Eat an apple for proof.

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03-15-2012, 12:15 PM
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No the core by definition is a sub group that you build around. aka nucleus. It isn't close to 23 players. Hence the term "build around the core"
I know, it's 23+ players as I said!


See the word "build" that you used multiple times! Your right you build the core, then you build the core bigger, then once that is done you build the core bigger! Then guess what, when the "build" is over your left with all core!! Though the buidl is never really over!

Think about it!! Youhave a core of forwards, core of dmen, core of defensive forwards, core of offensive dmen, core of role players, ... You get the point!

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03-15-2012, 12:16 PM
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I would love to hear some people's definition of what a 1C is? Not to single you guys out!! But are you talking scoring or defensive play??
A #1C is the whole package. Plays game in and game out in the offensive and defensive zones. Hes the guy that is on the ice every single important situation whether its defense or offense. Hes a Toews, Getz, Staal,Spezza, Crosby, Malkin, Datsyuk, Stamkos, Giroux, Tavares, Lecavalier, Krejci,Backstrom, Backes, Benn, Duchene, Thorton, Richards, Richards, Nugent Hopkins, Koivu

Some of these are borderline, however all of these are better then the leafs centers. I wouldnt put a soft player with Kessel. We need a big body.

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03-15-2012, 12:17 PM
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I know, it's 23+ players as I said!


See the word "build" that you used multiple times! Your right you build the core, then you build the core bigger, then once that is done you build the core bigger! Then guess what, when the "build" is over your left with all core!! Though the buidl is never really over!

Think about it!! Youhave a core of forwards, core of dmen, core of defensive forwards, core of offensive dmen, core of role players, ... You get the point!
You don't really know what the meaning of core is IMHO.

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03-15-2012, 12:18 PM
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A core is the base, not the whole thing. Eat an apple for proof.
Exactly! SO why can't your entire NHL team plus some top prospects be the core and the rest of your assets be the "apple"?

I'm not saying it is going to happen but in a perfect system it should happen and it shoudl be your focus!

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