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#70: Rangers vs. Pens

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Old
03-16-2012, 01:20 AM
  #251
CrosbyMalkin
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Originally Posted by Petey Pucks View Post
I don't really think the cap situation back then was the reason your team had financial difficulties.....it went way beyond that and it was mostly because of their free spending ways during the 90's....had nothing to do with the cap unless you're implying the new cap limited the money pittsburgh was able to spend therefore they couldn't spend as much and therefore waste as much at the same time. but if you're saying the cap around the league was the problem it wasn't, pittsburgh spent alot of their own money freely during the 90's without any fear af consquence. at one point they owed 90 million to creditors and that had nothing to do with the cap system
There was no cap back then so the Pens went bankrupt trying to keep all their best players. The Rangers spent much more than the Pens at the start of our bad years when we gave away Jagr and Kovy for large sums of cash. The leagues system back then caused us to have our stars stolen for cash so it is only fair that we got lucky and had some nice draft years for it. Believe me the Pens did not have to tank back then to get those picks look at those rosters and see why. Dick Tarnstrom was our leading scorer one of those years. It was terrible back then because baseball ruined a once proud franchise and we saw the NHL doing the same thing with the Pens. Thank God the NHL decided to be a fair league like the NFL and the NBA.

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03-16-2012, 01:24 AM
  #252
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What did Torts say?

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Old
03-16-2012, 01:36 AM
  #253
Petey Pucks
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Originally Posted by CrosbyMalkin View Post
There was no cap back then so the Pens went bankrupt trying to keep all their best players. The Rangers spent much more than the Pens at the start of our bad years when we gave away Jagr and Kovy for large sums of cash. The leagues system back then caused us to have our stars stolen for cash so it is only fair that we got lucky and had some nice draft years for it. Believe me the Pens did not have to tank back then to get those picks look at those rosters and see why. Dick Tarnstrom was our leading scorer one of those years. It was terrible back then because baseball ruined a once proud franchise and we saw the NHL doing the same thing with the Pens. Thank God the NHL decided to be a fair league like the NFL and the NBA.
I understand that, but I wouldn't go so far as to say those players were stolen. Pittsburgh had to get rid of those players for cash because they needed the cash to pay back creditors and deferred salaries they owed. And the situation with the creditors was caused by Pittsburgh spending money they didn't have so the problem ultimately started with them and the money they didn't have to spend. Now that's where you come in and say " well the reason pittburgh was spending like that was because they were trying to hold on to as many of their star players and they went bankrupt doing so because there was no cap and other teams were offering more money"....but as a franchise you have to be smarter than that and realize when the money isn't there you can't spend it. There are many other ways to maintain a good team and an example is the NJ Devils, they have pretty much always had a good team due to their minor league system and developing players there. And when the time called and the money allowed the Devs would sign a key player here and there.....Pittburgh could have done the same....I mean it took the Rangers forever to see that this was the key and when they started doing it..well...now you see the result and they aren't that far away now from being a stanley cup contender if they aren't already this season....The Rangers woke up and realized they couldn't buy a stanley cup no matter how hard they tried and how much money they had.....but i do agree with you that the NHL needed a salary cap badly


Last edited by Petey Pucks: 03-16-2012 at 01:43 AM.
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03-16-2012, 01:43 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Back when the Bruins were hot, there was a bruin fan in here talking smack. I guess he is nowhere to be found.
Pens are hot now, they beat the rangers fair and square, we get it. We will see if they are still hot in a couple of weeks.
Rangers are still in first place, Pens are struggling to avoid (Or scared of) facing the Devils or Flyers in first round with 10 games to go. That does not inspire a lot of confidence in the team.
How can you say the Pens are "scared of" facing the Devils or Flyers in the first round? They're trying to win games... which is what every team is trying to do lol. They're not winning for the sole purpose of avoiding those teams in the first round. They're winning to stay hot, keep the flow going, and be the best team in the East.

I'm a Ranger fan I'll go ahead and admit it right now with no shame, The Pittsburgh Penguins are a better team than us. Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Letang, Staal, MAF, and a bunch of effective secondary scoring makes their team better. We have Hagelin, Gaborik, Richards, Cally and Hank, but our secondary scoring is nowhere to be found. That's going to be our biggest problem going down the stretch. If Dubi, Step, and Arty were at least 20 goal scorers this season that would most likely give our team the boost it needs to run deep in the playoffs. I'm just hoping that when the time comes, at least one of these guys steps up. We have talent on our team, but the Pens have more "raw" almost effortless talent that is there night in night out.

Another thing that's hurting us is our D who isn't as "shut down" as they need to be. Call them tired or whatever, but they need to get their stuff together if we're only going to have one scoring line. Girardi needs to stop making stupid passes to the other team, McD needs to find his game again, Staal needs to keep improving, etc. We all know this. Bickel, aside from tonight, is actually playing the smartest low-risk defense lately if you ask me...

Now, just because the Penguins are a better or more talented team doesn't mean we can't squeeze wins out of them. I just think we all have to realize and not have a problem saying that the Pens are a more talented team than the Rangers.

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03-16-2012, 01:55 AM
  #255
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How can you say the Pens are "scared of" facing the Devils or Flyers in the first round?
By reading their boards before this game.

Quote:
Now, just because the Penguins are a better or more talented team doesn't mean we can't squeeze wins out of them. I just think we all have to realize and not have a problem saying that the Pens are a more talented team than the Rangers.
Why are the Rangers ahead of them in the standings then?
They are the hottest team in the league no question, 2 weeks ago the Rangers were ahead of them by 10 points and still are by 4. Don't know how else you define better, but to me the numbers do.

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03-16-2012, 02:26 AM
  #256
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I see zuke getting 1 more game to show he belongs..

1 point in 3 games so far is scaring anyone...

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03-16-2012, 02:35 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Glennsoe View Post
I see zuke getting 1 more game to show he belongs..

1 point in 3 games so far is scaring anyone...
Honestly, Zucs should have had two assists tonight. Mitchell can't finish to save his life.

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03-16-2012, 02:57 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Let the Penguins fans celebrate their little regular season win. I still think they finish 4th or 5th.
I agree. The Pens are red hot right now and look like world beaters. But then again, so did the Wings last month. And then the Bruins a couple of months before that. And look at what's happening to them now. AFAIAC, better that the Pens peak right now than in the playoffs.

Pitt has more talent and depth than us.... on paper. But as every veteran fan knows, a goalie on fire in the postseason can be the great equalizer. With the lighter regular season workload he's had this year, there's hope that Hank will be fresh and play lights out when playoff time arrives.

Anybody else stuck with watching the ROOT sports network feed notice how the announcers kept trying to compare MAF to the King? I mean, c'mon! Don't those clowns realize how homerish and lame they sound to the national audience tuned in through NBC-SP?

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03-16-2012, 03:53 AM
  #259
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Originally Posted by CrosbyMalkin View Post
Letang is one of the top defenseman in the league and by far are best defenseman. His overall game is much better than most fans would think. Martin was the Devils top defenseman for years and was the most coveted defenseman during FA a year and a half ago and was the guy the Devils matched up against all the top forwards. Michalek was also his teams shut down defenseman who was matched up against other teams top players, and Orpik is also pretty good. I would put our defensman against the Rangers. When our top 4 defenseman are all healthy the Pens record is very good. They mentioned the Stat tonight on our TV network but I can't remember the exact win/loss totals. Plus our D will be going against your 1 line team and your 2nd and 3rd pairings will be matched up against lines centered by Crosby and Staal.
The fact that your forwards are more dangerous than our forwards does not make your defensemen better than our defensemen. You have a nice top four when healthy, but other than Letang, none of your top four would crack ours. You're delusional if you put any of Oprik, Michalek, or Martin ahead of Staal, McDonagh, Girardi, or Del Zotto.

I like how you make all kinds of injury excuses for the Penguins and ignore ours. You don't see crap like Bickel and Eminger playing if the defense is healthy. Injuries have forced Tortorella to overplay McDonagh and Girardi, but they're studs when they're not completely worn down. Staal is an elite shutdown defenseman when healthy, he just clearly is not back in form yet and likely won't be until next season. Del Zotto is having an excellent season and will only get better. We've also been missing Sauer practically all season, another guy who was playing excellent shutdown defense on our second pairing last season. Next year we'll likely add Erixon to that, another guy with a top-pairing ceiling.

You've done a nice job of coming in here and pounding your chest about how proud you are of your franchise and its history. I like how you complain about the financial situation that ruined your franchise and talk about its long history of making the playoffs, but gloss over the deliberate tank job to get Lemieux (I don't want to see any mod edits about this, their management tanked and even the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette admits it: http://old.post-gazette.com/pg/09351/1021485-125.stm). So go ahead and congratulate yourself about your model franchise. It took real smarts to draft Malkin and Crosby and then not mess up picking from a pool of Staal, Toews, Backstrom, and Kessel.


Last edited by Zil: 03-16-2012 at 03:59 AM.
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Old
03-16-2012, 05:10 AM
  #260
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Well, what can you expect when you take on Cindy, Malkin, J. Staal and Neal when you have to do it without Callahan, DZ and Lundqvist?

A loss was inevitable in this case. Take the loss, move on, and win some *****ing matches!

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03-16-2012, 05:12 AM
  #261
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I think it's important to remember the Rangers are the 4th youngest team in the NHL. They have a rookie playing on the first line LW, they have a kid with half a season of experience coming into this year playing on the top defensive pair, and they have another handful of player swith 3 years of NHL experience or less.

And, they';;, in all likelyhood become even younger next year when likely 2 or 3 of Kreider, Erixon, or JT Miller make the team and guys like Fedotenko, and others go the way of the dinosaur.

This team hasn't learned to win in the playoffs yet. They haven't learned how to sustain winning even for a full season. This is basically year 1 of the Rangers, from rebuilding, to becoming winners. Most of us picked them in the 4-6 range coming into this season, they will all likelyhood finish with one of the 2 best records in the East, and if they played in any other division in the east would have run away with the conference.

Pittsburgh, btw, is actually the 6th oldest team in the NHL if anyone cares. Theyve won a cup, they have that experience.

Next year, if the Rangers can get Nash or Parise, will really be the year where I think they go from being a good team, to being a Great team.

Go get me this team heading into next year:

Nash - Richards - Gaborik
Hagelin - JT Miller - Chris Kreider
Anisimov - Stepan - Mitchell
Rupp - Boyle - Prust

MCD - Girardi
Staal - Erixon
MDZ - Sauer
Mitchell on the 3rd line? No Callahan? God I hope not.

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Old
03-16-2012, 05:15 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Bobby Ryan-Richards-Callahan/Gaborik
Kreider-Stepan-Gaborik/Callahan
Hagelin-Anisimov-Fedotenko/rookie/UFA
Rupp-Boyle-Prust

Staal-Girardi
McD-Erixon (Smart players can play their off side, and both McD and Erixon are capable of doing it)
MDZ-Sauer

That's the team I want to see. Bobby Ryan will get traded, Rangers need to go get him. Better contract and not a big drop off from Nash. If you have to give up Erixon or Girardi (plus others) to do it, you do it. Eventually, get Fasth into the lineup instead of Fedotenko. Or IF (big if) Kreider is incredibly good, don't get Ryan and slot Fasth in as the second line LW when he's ready. Plus, who knows what happens with some of the other prospects. A guy like JAM seems like a nice dark horse to make the team next season.
That's more like it. Although I don't see Feds as even being an option. He looks done. Reminds me of Prospal's last season as a Ranger.

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03-16-2012, 05:50 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Glennsoe View Post
I see zuke getting 1 more game to show he belongs..

1 point in 3 games so far is scaring anyone...
He's done well, but I fear you are right. AAs injury might save him though.
Har dto complain on what he's done. Solid defensively EV and creating chances. Good PP. Limited icetime, but he's used it well this time.

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Old
03-16-2012, 07:08 AM
  #264
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I didn't see this game, but heard there was a questionable hit by Malkin. Who against? And was it bad enough to draw league's attention? Thanks.
Mr Malkin got dropped twice on one shift and the Garden was going nuts. That Russian **** was pissed and tried to line up Boyle and deliver a nasty hipcheck towards the stantion between the benches. Luckily Boyle dodged it, but it was a cheap shot waiting to happen. Baby Malkin was angry.

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03-16-2012, 07:36 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Everyday Im Hagelin View Post
Mr Malkin got dropped twice on one shift and the Garden was going nuts. That Russian **** was pissed and tried to line up Boyle and deliver a nasty hipcheck towards the stantion between the benches. Luckily Boyle dodged it, but it was a cheap shot waiting to happen. Baby Malkin was angry.
Yeah, noticed that as well. It looked like a "low" hit, dangerously close to Boyle's knees. Of course nothing was called, but you could see Malkin was pissed, because he took 2 clean hits on one shift.

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03-16-2012, 07:37 AM
  #266
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Mitchell on the 3rd line? No Callahan? God I hope not.
totally forgot about Cally. it was late, gimme a break

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03-16-2012, 07:42 AM
  #267
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Not as bad of a game as the score would indicate given the circumstances, but the Rangers looked outmatched. Biron was solid, aside from that 4th goal, but otherwise, the defense was abysmal.

Richards/Hagelin/Gaborik were once again the most dangerous forward line.

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03-16-2012, 07:53 AM
  #268
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Any word on Artie?

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03-16-2012, 08:01 AM
  #269
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Didn't read the whole tread but in reviewing the 5 Penguin goals, 4 of them were results of breakdowns by the defense.

Goal 1 - Staal has no business being in Bickel's corner. He practically knocked him off the puck.
Goal 2 - Horrible play by McDonagh.
Goal 3 - Emminger and Stralman played that 3 on 2 about as bad as you can, and Gaborik had a weak backcheck.
Goal 4 - Only goal I fault Biron on. Nice shot but you can't get beat high shortside.
Goal 5 - McDonagh didn't pick up his man. Also, came off another lost faceoff.

Rangers had their moments in the game where they played well, but Pitt is too good and you can't make mistakes in your own zone, they will make you pay.

And is it time to give Erixon a shot? Put him in and pick 2 out of Bickel, Stralman and Emminger.

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03-16-2012, 08:23 AM
  #270
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I think we let the game get away when we stopped hitting their top forwards. That 4 minute high-stick killed us.

Even tho we got the off-setting penalty, the fact that we started the 2nd period 4 on 4, and then on the PK, really threw our game off. The 2nd half of the 1st we were realy starting to take it to them.

moving on...

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03-16-2012, 08:25 AM
  #271
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Have no fear the prophet is here.

Penguins falter as the gas runs out and what goes hot will eventually go cold. Oh Oh Oh just in time for the playoffs. Cold as ice.

Rangers get players back in order Zotto, Callahan, Lundqvist, and where the train full of steam slowed down.... just in time for the playoffs Torts adds more coal. And off we go.

Have no fear the Prophet has spoken.

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03-16-2012, 08:27 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger View Post
I agree. The Pens are red hot right now and look like world beaters. But then again, so did the Wings last month. And then the Bruins a couple of months before that. And look at what's happening to them now. AFAIAC, better that the Pens peak right now than in the playoffs.

Pitt has more talent and depth than us.... on paper. But as every veteran fan knows, a goalie on fire in the postseason can be the great equalizer. With the lighter regular season workload he's had this year, there's hope that Hank will be fresh and play lights out when playoff time arrives.

Anybody else stuck with watching the ROOT sports network feed notice how the announcers kept trying to compare MAF to the King? I mean, c'mon! Don't those clowns realize how homerish and lame they sound to the national audience tuned in through NBC-SP?

It's not just the past ten games that Pittsburgh has been hot. 22-4-1 in their last 27 games and have the best record since the all-star break. Ever since their 6 game losing streak earlier in the year they have obviously been very good. Don't be surprised if the rangers are hosting the flyers in the first round. However, the penguins have the 2nd toughest remaining schedule in the NHL so it will certainly come down to the wire.

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03-16-2012, 08:28 AM
  #273
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on to the next one....this game will be the one NY can use to go deep in the playoffs...important loss that helps

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03-16-2012, 08:39 AM
  #274
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Exactly - try listening to them after working a 9 hour day, and driving home 225 miles to watch the game on DVR at the ripe old age of 61 (though I think I could still score more than Brandon Dubinsky)
The whole credibility of the damn league has to be called into question when the game gets moved to NBC-S because of the return of Crybaby, and the NATIONAL BROADCAST is the re-transmission of the Pittsburgh feed.

It's more evidence in the file that the league is in bed with Pittsburgh.

With all that going on, the Rangers were the equivalent of a 16 seed last night.

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03-16-2012, 08:43 AM
  #275
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Can't really blame one unit for the loss last night. Yeah, the defense was pretty terrible (missing assignments, leaving guys open, etc) but aside from Gaborik/Hags/Richie (who continue to be amazing) there weren't any results offensively. And by results I mean goals- sure the bottom 3 lines had some scoring chances (Prust hitting the crossbar, Mitchell hitting the post x2) but its like these guys are allergic to FINISHING.

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