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Hockey's Future Top 50 Prospects: 11-25

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Old
11-15-2004, 03:37 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Buffaloed
I'm glad I'm not involved in the ratings business, but I would suggest in the future a separate list for goalies (top 10) and use the top 50 just for skaters. Goalies are "different". It's like allowing cats to compete in a dog show.
I'd say take this a step further and separate out forwards and d-men in the skaters group. For example, you see here how rating a d-man ahead of a forward can be heavily debated since they (d-men) are "different" too. I'd like to see a top 10 goalies, top 35 forwards and top 15 d-men as the lists.

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11-15-2004, 03:39 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Buffaloed
It's more like the SEL not getting respect with respect to goaltenders. When the best NHL goalie its produced is Tommy Salo, there's going to be some bias, and it's probably deserved. Hedberg is the only other Swedish goalie I can think of that's been in the NHL that had some success. It also didn't help that a number of Leaf fans spent the 2001 offseason hyping (and annoying everyone) Mikael Tellqvist as the next franchise goalie. Sweden is going to be viewed as a dubious developer of goalie talent until it places 2-3 quality starters in the NHL.
But there should be no bias involved. Of course, there are questionmarks if he will be able to translate his game over to NA and in the NHL (same as with every other prospect btw.) - but what exactly can he do more in the SEL to show that he has the potential to become a very good NHL-goalie?

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11-15-2004, 03:54 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by PanthersRule
Stuart is nothing. He has like bad offensive skills. To be a top prospect, no matter how good you are defensively, you need to have at least semi-decent offense. STuart is a sold prospect, but that's why guys like Suter, Grebeshkov, Krajicek, Colailacovo, Whitney, etc.. are ahead of him. He's definately a safe prospect, but he has no extreme upside that would put him with like Blake or Lidstrom, or any other good d for that matter. All the highly hearalded dmen in the game have good offense.
Stuart is nothing? Sure he won't have the offence but he has the potential to be a premier shut-down defender.

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11-15-2004, 03:56 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by J17ster
Not a damn lot. .
Once, twice?

Go watch him play for 5-6 games, you will realize why he gets the hype.

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11-15-2004, 03:57 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by 19bruins19
Stuart is nothing? Sure he won't have the offence but he has the potential to be a premier shut-down defender.
Guys like that without the offensive skills tend to max out as #3 or #4 defencemen.

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11-15-2004, 03:57 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Chimaera
To bring the attention back to Ward, he's probably gotten the biggest shaft of anyone out there.


At least if he's not in the top 10 (which I would be surprised to see him)

And I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be a playoff team that he'd have to be on, it would be a Canadian team he'd have to be on.
Maybe check to see what teams have the most players on the list before you make a comment like the Canadian/US bias.

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Old
11-15-2004, 03:57 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by J17ster
Yeah but he gets too much hype. A solid tourny isn't a great tourny. Though playing for Canada does mean he's kinda in the spotlight.
Actually, he did have a GREAT tourny. Was named to the all-star team for the tournament.

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11-15-2004, 04:05 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Prucha73
Gaborik??? How exactly are they even similar that you would make this comparison? I think Cherneski comparison would be more likely.
Then it's apparent you've never seen Cherneski play at all. He's my alltime favorite player and I even own a game worn Cherneski Ranger jersey (from Pre-season).

Cherneski was a powerforward with 2nd line MAX potential in the mold of Ryan Smyth.

If anyone resembles Cherneski it would be Ladd.

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Old
11-15-2004, 04:22 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Franz
But there should be no bias involved. Of course, there are questionmarks if he will be able to translate his game over to NA and in the NHL (same as with every other prospect btw.) - but what exactly can he do more in the SEL to show that he has the potential to become a very good NHL-goalie?
But it is possible for him to do more. He's showing that this season. I'm sure he'd be ranked higher if this season's stats were taken into account. Bias (maybe there's a better word for it) is always going to be involved. High scorers from the QMJHL are often looked upon with skepticism, and its goaltenders are viewed favorably based on previous experience.

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Old
11-15-2004, 04:22 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by J17ster
Yeah but he gets too much hype. A solid tourny isn't a great tourny. Though playing for Canada does mean he's kinda in the spotlight.
He had a great tourney. I remember reading an article after the world juniors where a guy who has been watching the world juniors for over a decade said he put on the most dominant performance by a defensemen at the world juniors that he had seen.

You aren't qualified to call him overhyped if you haven't seen him play much. Sutter has said he would be in the NHL this year save for the lock out and frankly he didn't look out of place in training camp a year ago and likely would have stuck at age 18 on an expansion team or a team with less depth on the blueline than the Flames. The people on this board who call him a stay at home defensemen don't really know what they are talking about.

You apparently think he should be top 10 (based on some of your comments about where he should be) and yet you call him the most overhyped prospect. That doesn't make any sense at all. The most overhyped prospect would be someone in the top 50 that you don't think should be there at all, not someone you would drop a few spots.

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Old
11-15-2004, 04:25 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK
Guys like that without the offensive skills tend to max out as #3 or #4 defencemen.
So I guess his leadership, shut-down role and all will not make him a #2.

Fact is, he still has time to improve in that area.

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Old
11-15-2004, 04:30 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Leafaholix
There are 47 overhyped prospects on the list. Colaiacovo, Steen, and Ovechkin being the exceptions.
Wow. Talk about a homer.

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Old
11-15-2004, 04:39 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by markov`
Wow. Talk about a homer.
It was a joke.

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Old
11-15-2004, 04:48 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffaloed
It's more like the SEL not getting respect with respect to goaltenders. When the best NHL goalie its produced is Tommy Salo, there's going to be some bias, and it's probably deserved. Hedberg is the only other Swedish goalie I can think of that's been in the NHL that had some success. It also didn't help that a number of Leaf fans spent the 2001 offseason hyping (and annoying everyone) Mikael Tellqvist as the next franchise goalie. Sweden is going to be viewed as a dubious developer of goalie talent until it places 2-3 quality starters in the NHL.
Thats a fair reason. But its not like he only played well in the SEL. Look at last year World Championships.

Goalies in the tournament:
T. VOKOUN
T. CONKLIN
M. GERBER
A. IRBE
H. LUNDQVIST
O. KOLZIG
R. LUONGO
M. DUNHAM
M. NORONEN
J.S. GIGUERE
R. CECHMANEK

Allstar team: Henrik Lundqvist, Chara-Tärnström, Jagr-Heatly-Peltonen.

You have to admit that he had decent competition to make that allstar team. But he isn´t good enough for the HF Top 50???

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Old
11-15-2004, 04:59 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffaloed
But it is possible for him to do more. He's showing that this season. I'm sure he'd be ranked higher if this season's stats were taken into account. Bias (maybe there's a better word for it) is always going to be involved. High scorers from the QMJHL are often looked upon with skepticism, and its goaltenders are viewed favorably based on previous experience.
Yes, he is improving. Every prospect should improve, though...

I understand where your argument comes from. But I don't like it. IF the next Ovechkin pops out of Belgium or Japan - does that mean he wouldn't be included in the new top 50 list, because Belgium or Japan never had a great hockey star and there would be some bias against them? You get what I mean?

Anyway, I appreciate the efford the HF guys gave into these list.

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