HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Larry Brooks: His greatness grows

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-14-2004, 03:49 AM
  #1
Bicycle Repairman
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,695
vCash: 500
Larry Brooks: His greatness grows

Bettman plays the Lying Game

Like Jimmy Stewart in Mr. Smith Goes To Washington, the last honest man in American Hockey Journalism, the acclaimed New York Post's Larry Brooks, jabs a righteous, accusatory finger square in the eye of the monopolic Cyclops of the NHL propoganda machine.

Unraveling the foul web of spidery Bettman and his conniving cabal of lackeys and their odorous media manipulation, the ever-humble Brooks points to his investigative comrades in arms, when really, it is he himself who is setting the standard.

Bravo, Mr. Brooks!

Bicycle Repairman is offline  
Old
11-14-2004, 11:33 AM
  #2
degroat*
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: http://nhl.degroat.n
Posts: 8,108
vCash: 500
Brooks is a joke and nothing he says can be taken seriously.

degroat* is offline  
Old
11-14-2004, 11:53 AM
  #3
Evilo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: France
Country: France
Posts: 27,432
vCash: 500
Yeah, Conspiracy, yeah!

Evilo is offline  
Old
11-14-2004, 11:58 AM
  #4
Pepper
Registered User
 
Pepper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,428
vCash: 500
Did anyone else find that article very poorly written (even by Brooks' very low standards), totally lacking anything even remotely resembling a point, just a bunch of wild accusations loosely stringed together by some unknown logic...?

Seriously, he was just lashing out at the NHL using some irrelevant interview transcript as an excuse for writing that tirade.

There's a reason why Brooks is almost universally heralded as the worst hockey writer ever, even Al Strachan must be rolling his eyes at that piece of 'journalism'.

Also it's painfully obvious that now that NHL is not playing he has had to take a 2nd job as a NHLPA PR-guy.

Pepper is offline  
Old
11-14-2004, 12:10 PM
  #5
Seachd
Registered User
 
Seachd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The Fail
Posts: 13,540
vCash: 50
Even Bruce Dowbiggin is better than Brooks.

Seachd is offline  
Old
11-14-2004, 12:25 PM
  #6
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,868
vCash: 500
The NHL is on the rapid path of becoming extinct and irrelevent in the United States.A small handful of people actually give a **** the NHL may not play a single game.At least Larry Brooks wrotes a column every week about the NHL.If it was not for Larry,nobody would give a **** in the same city where the NHL headquarters are based in and in the same city where Gary Bettman lives and works in.

Bill Daly is traveling across North America conducting townhall meetings about the lockout.Daly should consider conducting an event in his own background but he won't because the NHL are a bunch of cowards and their pathetic attempt to blame the NHLPA for everything wrong with the game will not fly.

The NHL wants the PA to help the NHL protect themselves from their own owners and the Canadian media is letting them get away with it

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
11-14-2004, 12:32 PM
  #7
MacDaddy TLC*
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Leafin La Vida Loca
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,478
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stich
Brooks is a joke and nothing he says can be taken seriously.

and the counterpoint to this was Fischler blaming Goodenow. Now there's a real battle of the minds... :lol

MacDaddy TLC* is offline  
Old
11-14-2004, 12:37 PM
  #8
Seachd
Registered User
 
Seachd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The Fail
Posts: 13,540
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy
The NHL is on the rapid path of becoming extinct and irrelevent in the United States.
Exactly. And Brooks and the Union don't seem to realize this. It seems like they'd rather keep it that way.

Seachd is offline  
Old
11-14-2004, 12:56 PM
  #9
thinkwild
Veni Vidi Toga
 
thinkwild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,298
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman
Bettman plays the Lying Game

Like Jimmy Stewart in Mr. Smith Goes To Washington, the last honest man in American Hockey Journalism, the acclaimed New York Post's Larry Brooks, jabs a righteous, accusatory finger square in the eye of the monopolic Cyclops of the NHL propoganda machine.

Unraveling the foul web of spidery Bettman and his conniving cabal of lackeys and their odorous media manipulation, the ever-humble Brooks points to his investigative comrades in arms, when really, it is he himself who is setting the standard.

Bravo, Mr. Brooks!
You do have a way with words.



Quote:
"First of all, you don't have to get rid of guaranteed contracts with a salary cap. Secondly, we've never discussed the issue with the union. Never."
- Gary Bettman, Oct. 27,
We have never even discussed the matter of aslary guarantees with the union he says.

Quote:
Bettman wrote. "Therefore, we will be raising for discussion issues affecting numerous CBA and SPC [Standard Player Contract] provisions including salary guarantees and buy-outs other than for injury . . ."
- Gary Bettman, Jul. 27,
Bettman in writing declaring his intent to talk about guaranteed salaries prior to the end of negotiations on Oct 27. Maybe he didnt. After all, so far he just wants them to say the words - i agree to linking salaries to revenues. Maybe he hasnt yet negotiated any concrete issues like this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Brooks
It's a scam and a sham amd it has been from the start, this attempt by the runaway Board and the zealot in the commissioner's office to claim the high road while attempting a money grab of scandalous proportions.

These people don't care about hockey. They should stop pretending that they do. They don't care about the game or about small markets. They don't care about the fans. They don't care about any of that. They care about breaking the union. They care about doubling franchise values.

That's what this NHL Board of Governors stands for, and that's all it stands for
And somehow have the fans on side in their attempt to do it. But of course fans are only exposed to one viewpoint.

Quote:
For the most part, the networks in Canada appear cowed by the league, afraid to fall out of its good graces by asking tough questions
Indeed. A bunch of Bettman bootlicks exhibiting petty jealousy

Bravo Larry.

thinkwild is offline  
Old
11-14-2004, 01:17 PM
  #10
Seachd
Registered User
 
Seachd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The Fail
Posts: 13,540
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Brooks
These people don't care about hockey. They should stop pretending that they do. They don't care about the game or about small markets. They don't care about the fans. They don't care about any of that.
Holy hypocrisy. "They don't care about the game or about small markets"? How this statement didn't set off any alarms on the way from the boulder between Brooks' ears to his keyboard is beyond me.

The Union cares so much about small market teams, they're willing to see them destroyed by economics. They care so much about the fans, that they're willing to give up playing for the Cup, call us ignorant after spewing some of the most brainless comments heard since the beginning of time, and claiming they're doing their part by making "significant concessions", which are so laughable, they would probably only prolong the inevitable by a year at best.

Statements like this show exactly why Brooks is even stupider than he's trying to make fans look.

Seachd is offline  
Old
11-14-2004, 03:27 PM
  #11
Hasbro
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Hasbro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Rectangle
Country: Sami
Posts: 30,334
vCash: 500
If there is one person in hockey who doesn't care about small markets, it's Brooks.

I don't see how he made this conclusion
Quote:
He proposes to "revise and simplify the SPC by moving many of its provisions to the CBA, updating provisions which are outdated and revising provisions inconsistent with the goals of the new economic system."

In other words, forget about those bonuses.
There is no way in hell guaranteed contracts will be done away with. I'm sure everyone in ownership with the exception of Wirtz knows this. It's just a scare tactic by Goodnow to hold the line. The fact that Brooks buys that argument or is parroting it impeaches his already non-existant credibility.

"Last honest man in hockey?" Have you ever heard one of his trade rumors?

Fish isn't much better though. If you want to know something about the Brooklyn Americans he's the guy, anything after the Next Six he's shakey.

Hasbro is offline  
Old
11-15-2004, 08:06 AM
  #12
Steve L*
Registered User
 
Steve L*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Southampton, England
Country: England
Posts: 11,548
vCash: 500
You realise that using Brooks to support your arguement actually detracts from it?

Steve L* is offline  
Old
11-15-2004, 08:20 AM
  #13
Taranis_24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 655
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Taranis_24
Pardon me while I wipe the tears from my eyes from laughing so hard. Brooks and greatness, funny. The guy is a ****** and the only reason he supports the players because he lives in NY with a team that loves to overspend, he's probably a fan of George Steinbrenner as well. Wait, I feel another laughter coming on.

Taranis_24 is offline  
Old
11-15-2004, 09:33 AM
  #14
SENSible1*
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taranis_24
Pardon me while I wipe the tears from my eyes from laughing so hard. Brooks and greatness, funny. The guy is a ****** and the only reason he supports the players because he lives in NY with a team that loves to overspend, he's probably a fan of George Steinbrenner as well. Wait, I feel another laughter coming on.
How is Brooks supposed to fill out his weekly quota of articles if he can't make up BS rumours based on the Rangers unlimited budget?

A cap would kill his career.

SENSible1* is offline  
Old
11-15-2004, 12:18 PM
  #15
vanlady
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 810
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy
The NHL is on the rapid path of becoming extinct and irrelevent in the United States.A small handful of people actually give a **** the NHL may not play a single game.At least Larry Brooks wrotes a column every week about the NHL.If it was not for Larry,nobody would give a **** in the same city where the NHL headquarters are based in and in the same city where Gary Bettman lives and works in.

Bill Daly is traveling across North America conducting townhall meetings about the lockout.Daly should consider conducting an event in his own background but he won't because the NHL are a bunch of cowards and their pathetic attempt to blame the NHLPA for everything wrong with the game will not fly.

The NHL wants the PA to help the NHL protect themselves from their own owners and the Canadian media is letting them get away with it
Wasn't it the Canadian media and powers that be, that hid Alan Eagleson from prosecution in the US for 2 years????

vanlady is offline  
Old
11-15-2004, 12:43 PM
  #16
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
When you starting reading Brooks looking relevant hockey material, you are in trouble.

You might as well be hunting for green patches of grass at phi 0 lattitide 90 N (the North Pole for the non-geography majors in the house), you'll have much greater success.

The fact of the matter is, you look to Larry Brooks when you want to know what won't happen. If he's got a trade rumour, you can be sure it won't happen.

If it comes to the point where anyone has to quote Brooks to prove your point (and are actually siding with him), you've already lost!

__________________
TheSpecialist - MacT thinks he was that good of a hockey player when in actuality he was no better then a Louie Debrusk.
dawgbone is offline  
Old
11-15-2004, 12:44 PM
  #17
Evil Sather
YOU KILL THE JOE
 
Evil Sather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YOU MAKE SOME MO
Posts: 1,899
vCash: 500
My God.. I can't believe I'm defending Larry Brooks...

Firstly, he was elected President of the Hockey Writers Association for a reason... unless you assume all hockey writers are idiots and they elected the head idiot.

Secondly, the paper he writes for, the New York Post, is a RUMOR paper. It is a SCANDAL paper. It wants headlines and shocking possibilities (read: "News"). Flip through it one Sunday, you'll see Peter Vescey's column with insane trade proposals, the Yankees possibly getting anyone making over $15 million, and the Mets trying to get anyone who sucks and makes over $15 million. The entire paper is like that, it's fairly clear it's a mandate from The Powers That Be. Also, being a General Manager must be really boring if all they do is make the trades you see. If you don't think they have thousands upon thousands of conversations which never end up seeing the light of day (and those get leaked), you're just keeping your head in the sand.

Thirdly, as much as you guys are slamming him, I haven't seen a shred of anything that contradicts what he says, or shows it to be completely slanted. All that comes out is "Brooks is a moron lolololol" which is significantly less convincing than his argument -- and Brooks feels passionately about the cause, something that comes through in his writing. I like reading a piece with emotion behind it, and not something that looks like it came off the AP Wire.

Finally, as far as trade rumors and the like go, Bruce Garrioch lapped him sometime in 1999 and has been God knows how far ahead ever since -- and I doubt he has the mandate from ownership that Brooks does. As far as Strachan, when everyone stops wanting to come to play for the Leafs, I'll give him a bit of credit. Brooks may opine that the Rangers are after this person or that person, but how many times does he claim they would LOVE to play for the Rangers? Uh huh.

Evil Sather is offline  
Old
11-15-2004, 12:48 PM
  #18
Puck
Ninja
 
Puck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Tahiti
Posts: 8,933
vCash: 500
I was wondering what the PA was talking about at the player rep meeting when we heard about that 'guaranteed contracts with a salary cap' stuff. How'd they come to this conclusion? Now we know. This letter is the document that will probably be 'exposed' and 'demo'ed' at the agent's Chicago meeting on the 17th, I suppose.

I like Larry now if only because he's a voice in the wilderness. However his language is a bit colorful and 'over the top' with things like Bettman and his junta. If his article could be more objective and less emotional, I'd nominate him for some sports writing award (not the Pulitzer, something less visible) just for the audacity of going against the flow and against the majority viewpoint.

I'm not saying I agree with everything he says, I'm just saying I like the opposing view, presently there is so little of it. The NHLPA should think about hiring someone like Larry as Communications Director or Press Release Coordinator, gawd knows they sorely need it with their lacklustre public relations efforts.

Puck is offline  
Old
11-15-2004, 01:05 PM
  #19
Pepper
Registered User
 
Pepper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,428
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Sather
Firstly, he was elected President of the Hockey Writers Association for a reason... unless you assume all hockey writers are idiots and they elected the head idiot.
Let's see, who are the most well-known hockey writers around?

Here's a quick list from the top of my head:

Mike Ulmer, Tony Gallagher, Eric Francis, Bruce Garrioch, Al Strachan, Damien Cox, KPD, Tim Panaccio, Red Fisher, Pat Hickey.

I'd say over 50% of the those are complete idiots or atleast write completely idiotic articles (I'm not quite sure if there's a difference).

So it's not too hard to imagine them electing Brooks as the head-idiot, especially him living in the same city as NHL HQ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Sather
Thirdly, as much as you guys are slamming him, I haven't seen a shred of anything that contradicts what he says, or shows it to be completely slanted.
His track-record speaks for itself, he has been writing totally biased articles from day 1 of this whole mess. Care to guess which side he has chosen? Find me a single anti-NHLPA article by Brooks and we'll talk more. Also the article we're talking about currently was some incoherent ramble with really no substance, he's just lashing out against NHL in general using some quite irrelevant transcript as an evidence of league's evidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Sather
Finally, as far as trade rumors and the like go, Bruce Garrioch lapped him sometime in 1999 and has been God knows how far ahead ever since -- and I doubt he has the mandate from ownership that Brooks does. As far as Strachan, when everyone stops wanting to come to play for the Leafs, I'll give him a bit of credit. Brooks may opine that the Rangers are after this person or that person, but how many times does he claim they would LOVE to play for the Rangers? Uh huh.
Uh oh, so Strachan and Garrioch are even worse? That's like defending your body shape by saying you're not as fat as Roseanne Barr or Jabba The Hut.

Pepper is offline  
Old
11-15-2004, 02:20 PM
  #20
Tom_Benjamin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,152
vCash: 500
Larry Brooks is not the issue. His credibility does not matter a whit to this labour dispute. Gary Bettman is the issue and his credibility matters a lot. It is clear he has zero credibility with the players. That's a big reason this dispute is going nowhere. This story is an excellent example. Bettman is a petty little man who sells snake oil for a living. A sleazebag.

Here we have an issue that is important to the players. For a player like John LeClair or Bill Guerin it is probably the single most important issue. More than one or two of them have expressed concern about it.

If Gary Bettman had any integrity at all, he answers those questions like Brian Burke answered them. "There aren't guaranteed contracts right now. Any 26 year old player can be bought out for 2/3 the salary. Younger players can be bought out for less or sent to the minors where they are paid a minor league salary. I'm not surprised if the owners want to reduce the buyouts. It is a legitimate issue to negotiate."

Instead Bettman announces that he has never discussed the issue once with the union. This is not a lie because all the memo did was announce the intention of raising the issue for discussion with the union. That's typical Bettman.

Not a liar, no sir. You can't find a lie in a TV commercial either. But it is fundamentally dishonest and that dishonesty is a very large barrier to a settlement. The players do not trust him or like him or believe he cares about hockey or hockey players. And it is this kind of petty crap that creates the poisoned atmosphere. That memo is obviously what Guerin et al were reacting to, so naturally one of them leaks it to Brooks.

It's a sleazy way to negotiate a collective agreement. Grandstanding will not get a deal done. Increasing distrust accomplishes nothing except harden the player's position. Declaring you want a partnership while pulling stunts like this is hypocritical. Most fans aren't smart enough or don't spend enough time examining the issues and so they fall for the snappy patter and the snake oil talking points. But it doesn't get hockey any closer to resolving the dispute.

Another example from last week was the memo Daly wrote to all the teams. It was a supposed update where he paragraph by paragraph refuted the NHLPA arguments on the labour dispute. Even though the NHL is not supposed to talk to the players directly about the issues, somehow player agents all got a copy of the memo in a plain brown envelope, no return address.

How transparent is that? Like the owners need Bill Daly to explain to them why the NHLPA is wrong. Like the NHL office didn't distribute the memo. Like the NHL office can't deny leaking the memo. Like even if they are caught they can defend the action because they were talking to player agents, not players. It isn't exactly bargaining in bad faith because nobody can prove anything, can they? It isn't literally bad faith is it? No, it was not. But it is miles from good faith. It is sleazy dishonesty.

How do the players react? Very poorly. Larry Brooks goes over the top because all hockey writers go over the top. That doesn't make him wrong on the critical issue. The critical issue is Gary Bettman and trust.

Robert Esche apologised for his remarks because he knew that they were not constructive. The players don't have a choice. They have to deal with a slug, and it doesn't do any good to call the slug names. But Esche and Chelios surely speak for a lot of players. That was one of the points Burke made after Chelios spoke up.

It is very unfortunate, Burke said, that the players feel that way about Gary Bettman. And it is. The players have no respect at all for the guy they call the owner's commissioner. Fans might lap up his misleading commercials, but the players don't. They see a dishonest campaign that is designed to make them look like the bad guys.

"We want a partnership with the players," says Gary Bettman. "No thanks," say the players, "With a guy like you, we'd rather fight."

So here we sit.

Tom

Tom_Benjamin is offline  
Old
11-15-2004, 02:24 PM
  #21
Pepper
Registered User
 
Pepper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,428
vCash: 500
Tom, your argument would look much more credible if you didn't use examples like Larry Brooks and Bill Guerin. Both are the worst in their own categories, Brooks is a pro-NHLPA lapdog and Guerin is a greedy mercenary who cares only about getting the last dollar.

Pepper is offline  
Old
11-15-2004, 02:41 PM
  #22
GoneFullHextall
Fire Berube
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 32,253
vCash: 500
Larry Brooks is a fool. he shouldnt and will never be taken seriously.

GoneFullHextall is offline  
Old
11-15-2004, 02:47 PM
  #23
Cully9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 101
vCash: 500
Tom,

I take it Bettman's the anti-Goodenow -- the fine upstanding and truthful fighter for justice and freedom? If you want to dig into backgrounds and what's going on behind the scenes, don't be afraid of opening Goodenow's closets too. They're both far from sainthood.

Yet the owners don't rely on it being a personal thing against Goodenow -- they're just trying to get a deal that works for them. As owners of the brand and the business they have every right to do that.

On the other hand, if the PA makes it personal to the membership -- a bunch of guys with more competitiveness and desire than brains, combined with a penchant for obedience -- they have a much better chance of continuing to hold out for the deal that works for them.

Saying that the lockout is about Bettman and not about Goodenow ignores the balance of power in their respective associations.

Bettman's employers are billionaires, all people who can be reasonably assumed to have a fair grasp on business. Is it Bettman telling them how the negotiation has to work, or is it the other way around?

By contrast, Goodenow's employed by a bunch of hockey players, most of whom are not particularly cognisant of the details of high finance. Is it the players that tell Bob Goodenow what to do, or does the chain of command run the other way, with Bob Goodenow telling the players what he is going to do?

Cully9 is offline  
Old
11-15-2004, 03:03 PM
  #24
Tom_Benjamin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,152
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper
Tom, your argument would look much more credible if you didn't use examples like Larry Brooks and Bill Guerin. Both are the worst in their own categories, Brooks is a pro-NHLPA lapdog and Guerin is a greedy mercenary who cares only about getting the last dollar.
So? That doesn't make either of them wrong.

Why don't you try to defend Bettman instead of attacking Brooks or Guerin? Explain how either of the examples I used are the actions of a person with any sense of honour or decency. Do you trust Gary Bettman? Do you think he gives a damn about hockey? Where's the evidence? What's he ever done for the sport besides make it more expensive?

Tom

Tom_Benjamin is offline  
Old
11-15-2004, 03:08 PM
  #25
Puck
Ninja
 
Puck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Tahiti
Posts: 8,933
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Benjamin
Bettman is a petty little man who sells snake oil for a living. A sleazebag.

Tom
Like madman, maybe sleazebag is a bit 'Brooks-ish' over-the-top. Maybe 'weasel' is a tad more diplomatic....

Puck is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:22 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.