HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Notices

Taylor Hall - 03/27/12 UPDATE Out For Rest Of Season With Labrum Surgery

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-17-2012, 12:23 PM
  #126
Asher
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,977
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
I agree 100% with the top part. The bottom part, meh. GMs aren't really supposed to lose it. To me, him saying he really wasn't happy about it and the Oil coming out after the intermission and going after Sarich makes me think he really was pissed off
Yes an no. Somebody tried to hurt one of his players. I would have called Sarich out on that.

Asher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 12:29 PM
  #127
I am the Liquor
Registered User
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,222
vCash: 8345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher View Post
When a guy's in a vulnerable position you're supposed to hold up though. There has always been hard bodychecking in the game -- that is certainly true -- but I remember an old time player (unfortunately I forget who) talking about this subject once and he explained it in a very good way: in the old days the main reason you hit a guy was to take the puck away from him, now it's to try and hurt him. That's probably some revisionist history there, as there have always been dirty players in the game, but I do agree overall that players used to hold up on a vulnerable opponent a lot more than they do now. (Maybe it's because back then you would have started a bench clearing brawl.)
Actually I was talking with my uncle the other day and we seemed to agree that the predatory hits like what happened last night are much more common today than in the 70's for example.

Although the Pat Quinn hit on Bobby Orr probably flies in the face of that theory.


I am the Liquor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 12:30 PM
  #128
I am the Liquor
Registered User
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,222
vCash: 8345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel6676 View Post
Now you are being circular. I have explained the Issue.
I think I am being pretty straightforward actually.

It is what it is.

All this whining about a clean hit is making us look like Vancouver fans.

I am the Liquor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 12:35 PM
  #129
AvOiL
Registered User
 
AvOiL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 389
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher View Post
When a guy's in a vulnerable position you're supposed to hold up though. There has always been hard bodychecking in the game -- that is certainly true -- but I remember an old time player (unfortunately I forget who) talking about this subject once and he explained it in a very good way: in the old days the main reason you hit a guy was to take the puck away from him, now it's to try and hurt him. That's probably some revisionist history there, as there have always been dirty players in the game, but I do agree overall that players used to hold up on a vulnerable opponent a lot more than they do now. (Maybe it's because back then you would have started a bench clearing brawl.)
This. Bodychecking is supposed to be employed to separate the man from the puck - not to injure players.

Hall was clearly in a vulnerable position. Sarich had a duty to hold up.

AvOiL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 12:37 PM
  #130
Gabriel6676
Registered User
 
Gabriel6676's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 249
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I think I am being pretty straightforward actually.

It is what it is.

All this whining about a clean hit is making us look like Vancouver fans.
I am running this argument in two threads so maybe I have not been clear enough here. My central point is that every player on the ice knew that sarich intended to hurt hall. Hall has been getting mugged all season without response. The oilers utterly failed to respond properly last night. That is my point. What Whitney did was not enough. It was better than has been attempted during other games this season but still not enough. The oilers need to send a message after a hit like this and did not. That is my point.

Gabriel6676 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 12:40 PM
  #131
OilerTyler
Fire Lowe
 
OilerTyler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,666
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemsky8371 View Post
This. Bodychecking is supposed to be employed to separate the man from the puck - not to injure players.

Hall was clearly in a vulnerable position. Sarich had a duty to hold up.
No, he really didn't. It was going to be a clean hit and it's not his fault that Hall fell.

I would be disappointed if an Oiler held up on a Flame who was in the same situation. A big hit like that can change the momentum and be the difference between a win and a loss.

OilerTyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 12:41 PM
  #132
I am the Liquor
Registered User
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,222
vCash: 8345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel6676 View Post
I am running this argument in two threads so maybe I have not been clear enough here. My central point is that every player on the ice knew that sarich intended to hurt hall. Hall has been getting mugged all season without response. The oilers utterly failed to respond properly last night. That is my point. What Whitney did was not enough. It was better than has been attempted during other games this season but still not enough. The oilers need to send a message after a hit like this and did not. That is my point.
I dont disagree.

For some reason the Oilers dont respond to stuff like this. Part of it could be suspension related. When you are faced with giving up 1/8th of your yearly salary to step up to defend a teammate, you may think twice.

You just dont see that in the dub. If someone did that, half the team would have jumped him. He wouldnt have been able to get back to the bench.

I am the Liquor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 12:41 PM
  #133
GMofOilers
Registered User
 
GMofOilers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mountains
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemsky8371 View Post
This. Bodychecking is supposed to be employed to separate the man from the puck - not to injure players.

Hall was clearly in a vulnerable position. Sarich had a duty to hold up.
Oh please everyone hits to hurt its part of the game. Keep the head up and that stuff stays out of the game.

GMofOilers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 12:43 PM
  #134
Hall2Nuge2Ebs
Registered User
 
Hall2Nuge2Ebs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,841
vCash: 50
Hall aka bambi really needs to work on his balance this offseason. Maybe take up some gymnastics or something. I'm tired of him always losing his edge and falling all over the place

Hall2Nuge2Ebs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 12:45 PM
  #135
molsonmuscle360
Registered User
 
molsonmuscle360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ft. McMurray Ab
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,271
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel6676 View Post
I am running this argument in two threads so maybe I have not been clear enough here. My central point is that every player on the ice knew that sarich intended to hurt hall. Hall has been getting mugged all season without response. The oilers utterly failed to respond properly last night. That is my point. What Whitney did was not enough. It was better than has been attempted during other games this season but still not enough. The oilers need to send a message after a hit like this and did not. That is my point.
What exactly did you want Whitney to do? Two hand Sarich in the head or something? Seriously, there is only so much you can do before you turn it from a hockey game into a melee. Whitney dropped his gloves...Pecks tried to get him to fight...Numerous Oilers made clean hits on Sarich afterwards. Sure I would have loved it if Peckham was on the ice instead of Whitney in that situation...Hell, even Smid. But still, they did what they could for who was on the ice at that time, and you need to have a short memory on the ice, otherwise you are going to lose more often than not.

molsonmuscle360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 12:47 PM
  #136
Gabriel6676
Registered User
 
Gabriel6676's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 249
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I dont disagree.

For some reason the Oilers dont respond to stuff like this. Part of it could be suspension related. When you are faced with giving up 1/8th of your yearly salary to step up to defend a teammate, you may think twice.

You just dont see that in the dub. If someone did that, half the team would have jumped him. He wouldnt have been able to get back to the bench.
Agreed. The NHL needs to think about this. The rule changes are not working in my view. Either the rule changes get drastic or enforcers are required and should be able to do their job. Personally I would have taken the pay hit.


Last edited by Gabriel6676: 03-17-2012 at 12:56 PM.
Gabriel6676 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 12:50 PM
  #137
Gabriel6676
Registered User
 
Gabriel6676's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 249
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher View Post
Charging with an intent to injure. That was my opinion from the moment it happened and my stance has not changed one iota since. I also believed Shanny would do nothing; my guess is that's true as well.

P.S. I saw the clip on Sportsnet about Tambo "not being happy" or whatever it's called (the interview he had with Principe). Incredibly weak response from him IMO. Even pathetic by my standards.
I completely agree with you. I respect trying to change the game so as to try to encourage respect on the ice. But his response to this was embarrassing.

Gabriel6676 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 12:54 PM
  #138
SLURVE
Registered User
 
SLURVE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 673
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Why dont you tell us all why the hit was illegal?

And please dont say it was intent to injure. You dont have access to the mind of Cory Sarich.
Well, Sarich was not going over to Hall to invite him for afternoon tea.

The problem is there is still a gray area in the culture of hockey where it is still acceptable that if you have your head down, it is almost excusable if you get nailed in the head.

Players at times during their skating looks away for 1 second receiving or passing the puck or looking at the play setting up and the opposition -it is just natural to look away for a moment of 1 second. Now opposition players look for that 1 second moment when players are looking away and they time their hit to the unsuspecting player. Now to me it is predatory and it is a intent to injure. Serious injuries have arose from such unsuspecting hits.

If Hall didn't fall, Sarich was not letting up and was going full tilt after Hall who was looking down. From looking at past headshots, the end result for Hall (if he didn't slip) would have been a concussion. Do you think Sarich didn't think for a moment that [ummmm...Hall has his head down, now I am going to hit him when he is vulnerable and knock him silly]. Again, it is predatory and an intent to injure. The NHL does not have a rule as such "when an opposition player missed a headshot because the other player slipped or avoided the head shot, and then there should still be a penalty with the intent to injure".

The prevention penalty is only for potential head shots. We do not need to see a pretend “Gee, I was looking down the ice and did not see him”-type of hit by Steckel on Crosby in the NHL anymore. Our franchise star players for the good of the game need to be protected from ordinary players. Prevention is the best medicine.

SLURVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 12:55 PM
  #139
Slicknitty
"80,000 peoples"
 
Slicknitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Yak City
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,439
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Actually I was talking with my uncle the other day and we seemed to agree that the predatory hits like what happened last night are much more common today than in the 70's for example.

Although the Pat Quinn hit on Bobby Orr probably flies in the face of that theory.

we need fans like that in Edmonton since no one on the team seems to want to stick up for their team mates. bunch of *******.

Slicknitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 01:03 PM
  #140
SLURVE
Registered User
 
SLURVE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 673
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMofOilers View Post
Oh please everyone hits to hurt its part of the game. Keep the head up and that stuff stays out of the game.
That is old school thinking that has to fricken stop and change. All it does is give guys like Sarich and Steckel protection to do what they are good at-hitting unsuspecting players and make it look clean but any way you toss it, it is an intent to injure. With all the big hard equipment, these hitters do feel any pain but know it can deliver the pain very well.

SLURVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 01:06 PM
  #141
Gabriel6676
Registered User
 
Gabriel6676's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 249
vCash: 500
There is a reason ales hemsky dropped the gloves. Hall has been getting chippy too. They are frustrated. Protection is not there for them. The oilers need a player like lucic. At this point I would settle for big Mac.

Gabriel6676 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 01:06 PM
  #142
SLURVE
Registered User
 
SLURVE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 673
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
What exactly did you want Whitney to do? Two hand Sarich in the head or something? Seriously, there is only so much you can do before you turn it from a hockey game into a melee. Whitney dropped his gloves...Pecks tried to get him to fight...Numerous Oilers made clean hits on Sarich afterwards. Sure I would have loved it if Peckham was on the ice instead of Whitney in that situation...Hell, even Smid. But still, they did what they could for who was on the ice at that time, and you need to have a short memory on the ice, otherwise you are going to lose more often than not.
Peckham or Sutton should have dropped the gloves and get the 2 min instigator but more importantly you send a message that reckless hits will not be tolerated. Calgary will not let up in future games to hit our franchise players because that is how it always been in the BOA.

SLURVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 01:07 PM
  #143
Gone
Fire KLowe
 
Gone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 2,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
What exactly did you want Whitney to do? Two hand Sarich in the head or something? Seriously, there is only so much you can do before you turn it from a hockey game into a melee. Whitney dropped his gloves...Pecks tried to get him to fight...Numerous Oilers made clean hits on Sarich afterwards. Sure I would have loved it if Peckham was on the ice instead of Whitney in that situation...Hell, even Smid. But still, they did what they could for who was on the ice at that time, and you need to have a short memory on the ice, otherwise you are going to lose more often than not.
Personally, I wouldn't touch Sarich ... I would a put a 'bounty' on Sven Baertschi.

I think the biggest issue with the NHL today, is that even the best 'skilled' players are at times vunerable. Crosby, Letang, Hall, Backstrom, Savard, Miller etc. etc. that is the price for agressively attacking the puck. Doing so requires you look at it, and therefore can be vulnerable.

The rat's know how to exploit these weaknesses to take these players out, and the NHL does everything they can, under the guise of a clean hit or it wasn't intentional to protect that player.

What were the reprecussions for:
- Cooke intended to injure Savard, anyone who thinks otherwise is a 'rat';
- Miller was Lucic's' prime target, not the puck,
- Backstrom took a season ending and career altering elbow to the head. Ramifications for Bourque are a slap on the wrist,
- Hall was vulnerable, Sarich new this from the time he was 5 steps away. Look at it closely and yes in some respects it was clean, but it was borderline charging, and whether Hall fell or not it was blindside, and the principle point of contact was the head.
- etc. etc. etc.

Unless the NHL get's serious about protecting it's skilled players (ie. any contact with the head is an automatic suspension), suspensions that match that of the player you took out etc., the league will slowly but surely fill with rats. It allready has.

The Oilers have two choices. One, continue to build a small skilled team that will always be decimated by injuries, or build a team of tough gritty players (ala Boston, Philly, etc.) that can survive the battles. It would be nice for once (unlike the past 20 years), for teams to fear plalying the Oilers ... to know there is a price to pay for comming to Edmonton. We may not win many games, but at least we would win battles ... that would count for something.

Gone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 01:08 PM
  #144
SLURVE
Registered User
 
SLURVE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 673
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel6676 View Post
There is a reason ales hemsky dropped the gloves. Hall has been getting chippy too. They are frustrated. Protection is not there for them. The oilers need a player like lucic. At this point I would settle for big Mac.
I agree. We need a player like Zack Kassian who can skate and score in the top 6 and as a complimentary player but can protect as well.

SLURVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 01:21 PM
  #145
I am the Liquor
Registered User
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,222
vCash: 8345
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLURVE View Post
Well, Sarich was not going over to Hall to invite him for afternoon tea.

The problem is there is still a gray area in the culture of hockey where it is still acceptable that if you have your head down, it is almost excusable if you get nailed in the head.

Players at times during their skating looks away for 1 second receiving or passing the puck or looking at the play setting up and the opposition -it is just natural to look away for a moment of 1 second. Now opposition players look for that 1 second moment when players are looking away and they time their hit to the unsuspecting player. Now to me it is predatory and it is a intent to injure. Serious injuries have arose from such unsuspecting hits.

If Hall didn't fall, Sarich was not letting up and was going full tilt after Hall who was looking down. From looking at past headshots, the end result for Hall (if he didn't slip) would have been a concussion. Do you think Sarich didn't think for a moment that [ummmm...Hall has his head down, now I am going to hit him when he is vulnerable and knock him silly]. Again, it is predatory and an intent to injure. The NHL does not have a rule as such "when an opposition player missed a headshot because the other player slipped or avoided the head shot, and then there should still be a penalty with the intent to injure".

The prevention penalty is only for potential head shots. We do not need to see a pretend “Gee, I was looking down the ice and did not see him”-type of hit by Steckel on Crosby in the NHL anymore. Our franchise star players for the good of the game need to be protected from ordinary players. Prevention is the best medicine.
So get rid of hitting all together then.

May as well turn the sticks upside down and swap the puck for a ring while we are at it.

I am the Liquor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 01:22 PM
  #146
cpnfantstk
Registered User
 
cpnfantstk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Orlando. Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 385
vCash: 500
I bet we have to wait until Monday on the severity of the concussion. This + + + + always happens around the weekend just to #@$# with us.

cpnfantstk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 01:26 PM
  #147
spence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: etown
Country: Canada
Posts: 54
vCash: 500
i really dont understand every one saying that it was a clean hit , first it was a charge he took more then three strides to hit second in the "new" nhl isnt any hit to the head a penalty . iam glad whitney went right after him at least someone on our team has balls.if i were reney i would send peckham out to jump him or jump one of there skill players why do the oilers always allow other teams to go afterour skill players and do nothing back i am still pissed about it

spence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 01:29 PM
  #148
ZedenoCiger
Registered User
 
ZedenoCiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 449
vCash: 500
I understand it was a legal hit if you read it out of the rule book. My problem with the hit is it was on a vulnerable, unsuspecting player. Sarich knew exactly what he was doing and timed it perfectly. He could of easily just got in Hall's way and stop hime instead of skating through him. It could have been worse then it was.

That being said, Hall should be fully aware of who is on the ice and try not to put himself in such awkward positions.

I like how someone else explained how this happens to those types of players always hunting for the puck.

ZedenoCiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 01:31 PM
  #149
ZedenoCiger
Registered User
 
ZedenoCiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpnfantstk View Post
I bet we have to wait until Monday on the severity of the concussion. This + + + + always happens around the weekend just to #@$# with us.
I believe Renney already said Hall was fine and that his baseline test was better then his when he got his concussion. So thats promising.

ZedenoCiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 01:33 PM
  #150
SLURVE
Registered User
 
SLURVE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 673
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
So get rid of hitting all together then.

May as well turn the sticks upside down and swap the puck for a ring while we are at it.
You are overgeneralizing. You need to re-read my post. I say NHL should have some sort of penalty for attempted headshots that missed-a modified an intent to injure penalty to incude attempted headshots to unsuspecting players. Prevention penalty. Yes, players like Hall needs to keep headup but Sarich intent was to hit violently on unsuspecting players. Teams has to react to violent hits esp on their franchise players.

SLURVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:22 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.