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Mutiny on the Bulldog ship?

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Old
11-15-2004, 02:19 PM
  #1
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Mutiny on the Bulldog ship?

Story in today's Hamilton Spectator says that Gavin Morgan has stated that some of the teams problems come from the team having trouble adjusting to Doug Jarvis's defense-first system. He suggest that players who are use to playing a more wide open system are feeling constrained. As a result, they're worrying about making a mistake that will get them bench instead of doing what comes naturally.
In reference to Jarvis's system Morgan is quoted to have said, "I think there are guys, old and young, who are having a hard time coming to grips with it."
I hope this isn't the start to a really long year.

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11-15-2004, 02:45 PM
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Seems that Morgan was brought in to fill the veteran role and offset the loss of Gratton. You'd think the reaction would be to speak with Jarvis rather than the media. I don't think Jarvis decided the system to teach. He probably was asked to drill a lot of rookies on team defence so they can adapt to the next level. I don't pretend to know how tight a leash he has as he has always been an asst. in the past but I think he was hired with a certain objective.

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11-15-2004, 02:51 PM
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I agree this probably should have been kept as an internal issue. My only thinking is that, that was tried and no one was listening. Either way, I am concerned about this going bad, quickly.
We all know that if the NHL started up tomorrow Jarvis will be wisked off to Montreal to be an assistant coach. This would leave Hamilton with an excellent coach in Ron Wilson, Ron only lost his last head coach job because the Saint John Flames folded. I think the style of Wilson would be a bit more suited to the young, fast players that we aren't using to their full potential here.

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11-15-2004, 02:56 PM
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Why can't Morgan's comment be a simple observation? I've made the identical observation myself, going purely by game comments and second-hand info. One would think the players would be able to make the same observation quite easily, and it doesn't sound like there is anything inherently inflammatory about the way Morgan said it. Why should words like "mutiny" be used????

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11-15-2004, 02:58 PM
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I don't think a coach has to stick with one strategy all year, and wouldn't be surprised to see Jarvis let the players go a little harder offensively if he feels it is nessesary for team success.

Players such as Locke and Kostitsyn will probablely start seeing more ice time (and given more chances to create offense) as the season progresses and the more Jarvis feels that they are not a defensive liability out there.

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11-15-2004, 03:00 PM
  #6
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OK minus "mutiny" add "frustration".

"Mutiny" is from the fans perspective.

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11-15-2004, 03:07 PM
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Yes it's still early in the season. Getting all these rookies to buy into a new system might be hard. Having said that I would not like to see a fine crop of offensivly minded rookies being asked to turn into Dug Jarvis clones.
The Habs went out to get some badly needed offence over the past few drafts.Yes they need to learn defence BUT you must give them their head on occasion after all that is what the habs wanted when they got drafted. Lots of these kids have great legs and great hands. If Jarvis is teaching them to never take a chance, never get caught, always look behind you, take the man, don't get penilties, and if I say change then you come to the bench right now no matter what, then he will take 30-40 goal scores and turn them into 15 goal scores that are good penilty killers.
It's early, I hope that Jarvis is having them take the bad pill early so that after Xmass the true nature of the rookies will be allowed to shine.

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11-15-2004, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien
Why can't Morgan's comment be a simple observation? I've made the identical observation myself, going purely by game comments and second-hand info. One would think the players would be able to make the same observation quite easily, and it doesn't sound like there is anything inherently inflammatory about the way Morgan said it. Why should words like "mutiny" be used????
I see the word 'mutiny', then I see Darz, then I see Mod, and I start getting ideas.

Who's with me ?

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11-15-2004, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
I see the word 'mutiny', then I see Darz, then I see Mod, and I start getting ideas.

Who's with me ?
He is living on the edge, after all.
[mod cloaking device] So how do we go about overthrowing a mod, anyway? What do we do? Just start posting so many trolling/obscene/babe thread messages as we can until they go over the edge trying to shut it all down? Let's hear your plans, o fearless leader.
P.S. And don't forget to keep your cloaking device on, otherwise they'll know all of our nefarious plans.

[/mod cloaking device]

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11-15-2004, 04:01 PM
  #10
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Players like Balej, Plekanec, Higgins and Perezhogin all seemed to find their offensive games last season under the same coach and coaching style, so it may be an early adjustment for a relatively young team and one that has so many new players.

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11-15-2004, 04:04 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien
He is living on the edge, after all.
[mod cloaking device] So how do we go about overthrowing a mod, anyway? What do we do? Just start posting so many trolling/obscene/babe thread messages as we can until they go over the edge trying to shut it all down? Let's hear your plans, o fearless leader.
P.S. And don't forget to keep your cloaking device on, otherwise they'll know all of our nefarious plans.

[/mod cloaking device]
Hmmmn, obscenities are too easy. Releasing pictures from a Thunder Bay "House Of Ballet" could work. Especially if he ballerinas aren't quite what they seem. Maybe getting other hof posters in the area to erect Leaf stuff on his lawn. Naw, I'd better not use the erect word in case Bill wakes up. Nothing's coming to me, I'm in a creative slump. Where's Brisebois when we need him ? [end cloaking device] Hi Darz old buddy, how ya doin'

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11-15-2004, 04:21 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldog fan
We all know that if the NHL started up tomorrow Jarvis will be wisked off to Montreal to be an assistant coach. This would leave Hamilton with an excellent coach in Ron Wilson, Ron only lost his last head coach job because the Saint John Flames folded. I think the style of Wilson would be a bit more suited to the young, fast players that we aren't using to their full potential here.
I know that Ron Wilson is entering his 8th AHL season as assistant coach, sandwiching that one year in Saint John where he ended up as head coach part way through the season. So, he has some good experience and worked with a lot of the young core of the Flames who went to the cup final last year. I just have no read on what type of head coach he would be or what style he would bring to the team.

Any more info or insights?

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11-15-2004, 04:40 PM
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Get ride of all the players complaining... They have a loser attitude plain and simple!

They are playing in a development league and they have everything to prove in the goal to play in the NHL one day... Jarvis has been put there by Gainey, he is his man and his autority cant be questionned!

Jarvis has contributed to develop one of the most skilled player in the organisation if not the most in Perezhogin, his sytem is very simple... Just make the little things well in a smart 2-way system.. This is exactly the same thing Julien ask our Habs to do!

The main problem is very simple... Our defensemans are more than atrocious and our supposed best one has some very pathetic attitude problems not working hard every shifts and cheating with regularity! They just cant get the puck out of the defensive zone without getting rid of it like chicken without heads...

When Komisarek and Cote will be back we will see the difference...

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11-15-2004, 04:49 PM
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Offence doesn't seem to be a problem when Danis is in goal as the Dogs have scored 23 goals in 8 games when he's in goal if my calculations are correct. Nearly 3 goals per game.

I think bulldog fan's theory that the Dogs play alot more conservatively with Ellis in goal and that costs them offensively is legit. 10 goals in 7 games for Ellis, compared to what Danis get is starting to be quite a huge difference. Does Jarvis' game plan call for more of a conservative approach with Ellis in goal is the big question.

But like NWT said, the system sure didn't hurt Balej, Perezhogin, Higgins and others last year. What may be hurting the Dogs is the loss of Balej and Perezhogin's (not too mention the 2 TB guys who were good skaters) speed. Most of the players they've added up front aren't exactly fast and Jarvis' system seems to be very similar to Martin's Sens System. Strong positioning, create turnovers in the neutral zone and create scoring chances with your speed. You need a ton of speed to be able to execute this system to perfection and aside from Higgins and Plekanec this isn't that fast a group of forwards.


edit: good point by NewHabs on the D. Lots of stay at home types, not enough guys who can start the attack with a good first pass out of the zone. Although bashing Hainsey is going a bit too far since the Dogs radio guys were praising him this weekend saying he really was looking like the top prospect he's supposed to be the past few games.

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Old
11-15-2004, 04:55 PM
  #15
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Jarvis

I have not been impressed with his coaching this year. The system is not the same as last year. I go to many games and last year Hamilton played a good two way game and now they trap and trap and trap some more. They get the puck and its dump and chase. This is Calgary flame hockey not a system you play with a smaller,offensive team Hamilton has. I see this is the two games I have watched Kasts play in. He's scared to jump into the rush, in the neutral zone. The coaching is affecting his offensive game. Not good. I'm afraid Jarvis will be the coach in Montreal one day!! OOCH

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11-15-2004, 05:29 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWT Habs Fan
I know that Ron Wilson is entering his 8th AHL season as assistant coach, sandwiching that one year in Saint John where he ended up as head coach part way through the season. So, he has some good experience and worked with a lot of the young core of the Flames who went to the cup final last year. I just have no read on what type of head coach he would be or what style he would bring to the team.

Any more info or insights?
I don't know a lot about Ron Wilson either,but I do know this. The year we had the Edmonton/Montreal split we had an awesome team. However, Ron Wilson's Flames had an above 500 record against us. Yes the Flames record in total wasn't great but I was very impressed how they managed to play so well against our stacked team.

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11-15-2004, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldog fan
I don't know a lot about Ron Wilson either,but I do know this. The year we had the Edmonton/Montreal split we had an awesome team. However, Ron Wilson's Flames had an above 500 record against us. Yes the Flames record in total wasn't great but I was very impressed how they managed to play so well against our stacked team.
Your point of view is interesting because just about everyone on this board is concerned about the development of Hab prospects rather with the w/l record being secondary. In our perfect world, Kost. and Locke would avg. 2 points a game and leave your city before Christmas. It must be a tough mindset to be a fan of an AHL team, or any minor pro team. I'm sure you take pleasure in your favorite players succeeding at the next level but would rather see a Calder Cup win. Jarvis' mandate could very well be different than what you as a paying customer deserve.

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11-15-2004, 09:18 PM
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Being a fan of a minor league team is an interesting situation. Your exactly right, if the players do too well we will probably lose them. The thing is though if one player elevates his level to the point of being called up he has probably brought up the level of several other players too.
As a fan of an AHL club you never really know what to expect come playoff time. If your parent club goes far into the playoffs your chance of winning the Calder Cup isn't great. Take a look at the Chicago Wolves as an example, they are already a good team, but when Atlanta fails to make the playoffs the team gets 3 or 4 players parachuted in. I realize this years playoffs everyone will be play with the guys that brought you there because there will be no NHL for guys to come down from. This years playoffs will have a level playing field.
I know it seems like I'm getting sidetracked, but my point is as an AHL fan, I hope for a semi final birth, a top 4 finish to me is a very good season. After that the influence of the NHL club plays so much into it anything can happen.
And yes we do get a certain satisfaction from watch "our boys" play in the NHL. This was a very proud area watching the Edmonton/Montreal outdoor game because many of the players in that game had skated on our Copps Coliseum ice.

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11-15-2004, 09:37 PM
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I think this may just be a good/bad(whatever way you look at it) case of growing pains. Why not drill the rookies on defence since our habs have a defensive strategy they abide to. That way, if they get called up, Julien's style will not be a total shock for them.

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11-16-2004, 08:03 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
Hi Darz old buddy, how ya doin'

I'm doing just fine mcphee, thanks for asking!!!

[secret mods can only see message]continue with the 'steal mcphee's goats' plan, and while we are at it, maybe we should break Blind Gardien's legs [end secret mods can only see message]

....so how have you been?

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11-16-2004, 08:08 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz
I'm doing just fine mcphee, thanks for asking!!!

[secret mods can only see message]continue with the 'steal mcphee's goats' plan, and while we are at it, maybe we should break Blind Gardien's legs [end secret mods can only see message]

....so how have you been?
Very well thank you. Busy though, building a new structure for my beloved goats.

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11-16-2004, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz
I'm doing just fine mcphee, thanks for asking!!!

[secret mods can only see message]continue with the 'steal mcphee's goats' plan, and while we are at it, maybe we should break Blind Gardien's legs [end secret mods can only see message]

....so how have you been?
Hail Darz..moderator! how can I serv you master?

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11-16-2004, 08:28 AM
  #23
Darz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
Very well thank you. Busy though, building a new structure for my beloved goats.
Hmmmm......new structure eh???? As a plumbing/mechanic system designer maybe I could help in designing some sort of AC/heat system for your structure. Just send me the blueprints and I'll see what I can do.

[secret mod message] new plan.....shoot mcphee!!!!!!!![end secret mod message]


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyclaus
Hail Darz..moderator! how can I serv you master?
Um...if you could maybe get some blueprints on mcphee's new goat structure that would be great. But don't let mcphee know my secret plan about abducting his goats!!!!


Last edited by Darz: 11-16-2004 at 10:02 AM.
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Old
11-16-2004, 08:52 AM
  #24
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(secret response)white on white(end resonse)

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11-16-2004, 08:53 AM
  #25
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(secret response)grey on grey(end resonse)

Didn't work!!!

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