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The Ultimate Armchair GM Hindsight Thread

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Old
03-16-2012, 08:20 AM
  #1
Leafsman
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The Ultimate Armchair GM Hindsight Thread

Time to put your money where your mouth is (not actually though but whatever). If you've been whining Burke did a bad job, show everyone you know how it could have been done better!

There is a vast number of people here who are up in arms and think Burke has completely failed at the rebuild. People have pointed out many deals he should/shouldn't have made which is pretty easy looking back.

It's time to quit *****ing and show everyone what you could do!!


Here is the roster Burke had coming in:
Mikhail Grabovski
Boyd Devereaux
Mike Van Ryn
Tomas Kaberle
Lee Stempniak
Luke Schenn
Carl Gunnarsson
Nikolai Kulemin
Viktor Stalberg
Nik Antropov
Dominic Moore
Niklas Hagman
Alexei Ponikarovsky
Matt Stajan
Anton Stralman
Ian White
Jiri Tlusty
Pavel Kubina
Jeff Finger
Jason Blake
Vesa Toskala
Curtis Joseph

Top 20 Prospects Fall 2008
. (NR) Luke Schenn, D, 18
2. (2) Nikolai Kulemin, RW, 22
3. (3) Jiri Tlusty, LW, 20
4. (1) Justin Pogge, G, 22
5. (4) Anton Stralman, D, 22
6. (5) Dmitri Vorobiev, D, 22
7. (NR) Mikhail Grabovski, C, 24
8. (NR) Mikhail Stefanovich, C, 18
9. (NR) Jimmy Hayes, RW, 18
10. (6) Robbie Earl, LW, 23
11. (7) Tyler Ruegsegger, C, 20
12. (11) Chris Didomenico, C, 19
13. (13) Chad Rau, C, 21
14. (8) Dale Mitchell, RW, 19
15. (9) James Reimer, G, 20
16. (12) Ben Winnett, LW, 19
17. (10) Matt Frattin, LW, 20
18. (NR) Joel Champagne, C, 18
19. (19) Viktor Stalberg, LW, 22
20. (NR) Jerome Flaake LW, 18


What woudl your roster look like Today???
What would you have done??????????????????????????????????
What moves woudl you have made after November 29, 2008???

Make the moves realistic? Use players that were actually traded over the years or at least rumoured to be traded and make sure the values add up (No Crosby for Jiri Tlusty)! Free agent signings, use the proper amounts and term! No discounts!

BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF!! I doubt there is anyone that was against every move Burke made so if you woudl have made the same move then show how honest you are and include it here! Noone's perfect!

Here is the cap #'s for 2008: http://capgeek.com/archive/team.php?...4&year_id=2008

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Old
03-16-2012, 08:22 AM
  #2
Leafsman
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Maybe someone remembers the lines for that year before Burke got here and coudl fill us in? I can't remember????????


Also I peiced togethr that roster, not sure if 100% accurate!

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Old
03-16-2012, 08:28 AM
  #3
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My first move is to keep my picks and Draft Tyler Seguin. My next move is to build around my homegrown #1 C.

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Old
03-16-2012, 08:36 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
My first move is to keep my picks and Draft Tyler Seguin. My next move is to build around my homegrown #1 C.
Yes, one can do that when one does not overrate the talent on that roster.

Seguin/Hamilton/Knight > Kessel

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Old
03-16-2012, 08:41 AM
  #5
mattehaus
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Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
Maybe someone remembers the lines for that year before Burke got here and coudl fill us in? I can't remember????????


Also I peiced togethr that roster, not sure if 100% accurate!
Burke was appointed 29th Nov 2008 - on this date we played the Flyers this was the roster:

L SCHENN
J FINGER
I WHITE
N HAGMAN
L STEMPNIAK
M STAJAN
T KABERLE
D MOORE (A)
J MAYER
A PONIKAROVSKY
A STRALMAN
J MITCHELL
N KULEMIN
R HOLLWEGG
A DEVEAUX
P KUBINA (A)
N ANTROPOV (A)
M GRABOVSKI

C JOSEPH
V TOSKALA

Sctached J BLAKE

Hope this helps

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Old
03-16-2012, 08:43 AM
  #6
Durkin67
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Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
My first move is to keep my picks and Draft Tyler Seguin. My next move is to build around my homegrown #1 C.
Cool. Who do you have playing while he puts it together for 2 years in junior?

Bearing in mind, you've been given a mandate by your superiors to upgrade the entertainment value for your season ticket holders and fan base at large. They want a competitive club as soon as possible. Whats the solution?

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Old
03-16-2012, 08:46 AM
  #7
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Cool. Who do you have playing while he puts it together for 2 years in junior?
What is the difference. Who ever was playing couldn't do the job.

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03-16-2012, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Durkin67 View Post
Cool. Who do you have playing while he puts it together for 2 years in junior?

Bearing in mind, you've been given a mandate by your superiors to upgrade the entertainment value for your season ticket holders and fan base at large. They want a competitive club as soon as possible. Whats the solution?
Seguin went to straight to the NHL in Boston and he would do the same on my team. I play the kids and don't worry about the standings for a couple of seasons as I am rebuilding the proper way.

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03-16-2012, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by montel View Post
What is the difference. Who ever was playing couldn't do the job.

Exactly. So, without a legit top line of talent to insulate the youngster while he develops, do you recommend throwing him onto the big stage right out of the gate?

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03-16-2012, 08:52 AM
  #10
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First move would be to sue the NHL and have all moves made by Fletcher (during his interim dysfunction) overturned do to missing marbles.

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03-16-2012, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
Seguin went to straight to the NHL in Boston and he would do the same on my team. I play the kids and don't worry about the standings for a couple of seasons as I am rebuilding the proper way.

You don't worry about the standings, or the hazards of making him carry the mail pretty much on his own, or the fact that your superiors have demanded an entertaining product. In fact, it was discussed at length prior to your employment.

Sorry Mr. Gatorade, you're fired.

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03-16-2012, 08:59 AM
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You don't worry about the standings, or the hazards of making him carry the mail pretty much on his own, or the fact that your superiors have demanded an entertaining product. In fact, it was discussed at length prior to your employment.

Sorry Mr. Gatorade, you're fired.

So you agree that Burke should be fired. Same page.

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03-16-2012, 09:17 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
So you agree that Burke should be fired. Same page.


No, Burke brought in a league leading goal scorer, a future all star defenseman in Gardiner, and he rebuilt the prospect pool from the ground up. He also added a number of key pieces via undrafted signings, and he has astutely protected his top assets from premature exposure. Colborne and Kadri are developing at their own pace, and pushing each other to play better. Thats a plan. Heaping Seguin and his brand new career on to the pile of garbage Burke walked into is reckless. Just because he survived on a Stanley Cup championship team, you suggest he could do the same in Toronto. I say you're out of your mind. Nothing personal, but Burkes plan was to establish a core that has the tools to compete, and to build the depth through the draft and through other means such as undrafted European and North American talent. Graduates no longer inherit an NHL job by default; they fight it out in junior, and when they are ready, they can replace a more senior player who can be moved for draft picks or other assets. Thats a comprehensive strategy. Yours is a haphazard panic move that not only robs Leaf fans of exciting hockey, it jeopardizes a promising young man's natural development.

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Old
03-16-2012, 09:20 AM
  #14
Leafsman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
My first move is to keep my picks and Draft Tyler Seguin. My next move is to build around my homegrown #1 C.
Wow!! What a complex thought process????

My next move is to build around my homegrown #1C, hhhmmmm? MAybe you'd care to expand! I was kind of hoping that some of those people that have been extremely vocal (cough, you, cough) would put more thought and really display what you'd have done differently! Guess I shoudln't have expected more than a two sentence response.

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03-16-2012, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
My first move is to keep my picks and Draft Tyler Seguin. My next move is to build around my homegrown #1 C.
And you knew that we were going to be a top 2 draft pick comming into the season when the rest of the hockey world expected us to finish around our typical 7-12 pick? I thought we were supposed to be honest with ourselves in this discussion?

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03-16-2012, 09:22 AM
  #16
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And you knew that we were going to be a top 2 draft pick comming into the season when the rest of the hockey world expected us to finish around our typical 7-12 pick? I thought we were supposed to be honest with ourselves in this discussion?
good point.

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Old
03-16-2012, 09:24 AM
  #17
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And you knew that we were going to be a top 2 draft pick comming into the season when the rest of the hockey world expected us to finish around our typical 7-12 pick? I thought we were supposed to be honest with ourselves in this discussion?
First thing I did as GM was fire all of the scouts and invested that money in time travel

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03-16-2012, 09:26 AM
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No, Burke brought in a league leading goal scorer, a future all star defenseman in Gardiner, and he rebuilt the prospect pool from the ground up. He also added a number of key pieces via undrafted signings, and he has astutely protected his top assets from premature exposure. Colborne and Kadri are developing at their own pace, and pushing each other to play better. Thats a plan. Heaping Seguin and his brand new career on to the pile of garbage Burke walked into is reckless. Just because he survived on a Stanley Cup championship team, you suggest he could do the same in Toronto. I say you're out of your mind. Nothing personal, but Burkes plan was to establish a core that has the tools to compete, and to build the depth through the draft and through other means such as undrafted European and North American talent. Graduates no longer inherit an NHL job by default; they fight it out in junior, and when they are ready, they can replace a more senior player who can be moved for draft picks or other assets. Thats a comprehensive strategy. Yours is a haphazard panic move that not only robs Leaf fans of exciting hockey, it jeopardizes a promising young man's natural development.

Drafting second overall is a panic move? A panic move is trading two first round picks when you have missed the playoffs four seasons in a row.

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03-16-2012, 09:27 AM
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And you knew that we were going to be a top 2 draft pick comming into the season when the rest of the hockey world expected us to finish around our typical 7-12 pick? I thought we were supposed to be honest with ourselves in this discussion?
I expected a lottery pick.

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Old
03-16-2012, 09:42 AM
  #20
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Most of the same moves the current organization has made. The moves I would make differently are, for the most part, minor ones in comparison to some of the excellent larger moves that have been made. I would have moved MacArthur for the first + good prospect depending on who the actual prospect was (no idea) and would have done my best to move Kulemin as I deemed his pace unsustainable and as a result he would be worth more to the team being moved for other assets. Those are a couple samplers of the more drastic differences my team would have. Not that it would necessarily be better.

The biggest thing would probably be getting rid of Ron Wilson long before he left under Burke.

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03-16-2012, 09:42 AM
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I like everything BB has done up to the start of free agency last year.

I love the Kessell,Phaneuf,Kaberle, Gardiner and Franson deals.
Just a great bunch of acquisitions. To be fair even BB never figured Lombardi would
recover that quickly. I believe when BB made the deal he was hoping to keep
Lombardi on the LTIR so his cap hit wouldnt count.

Here is where I think it went downhill.

Going with two inexperienced goalies. If you remember lst year GUS
really didnt play well and Reimer stole the show.

In my opinion I would have gotten a veteren backup, someone capable of
taking some of the pressure off Reimer. And when he didnt do that and
Reimer got hurt we had to play Scrivens because at that time no one had any
concidence that GUS could take the ball and run with it. Gus is not a bad goalie but he is not a #1. He lets in too many soft goals, at least one a game.
So the second mistake BB made was not to get a goalie when Reimer went down.

Another mistake was to settle for TC as our new center. Everyone knew the
shinny on TC- Good skills but injury prone and does not play with passion. I just feel we settled for something we didnt want because he was the only center left,
which brings me to my third point.

I would have traded Kulemin and Kadri for M Richards if that was for sure the asking price. Again hindsight being 20/20 no one including myself would have thought that
Kulemin would has the poor year he has had and again that Kadri would still be in the minors. But again that is what BB and his six million dollar team should have the hockey sense to realize someone like MR doesnt get traded every day and in my opinion that is the DEAl he most should have jumped on. To me give PHI whatever they want for Richards as he is everything we are now hoping to get.

And last but not least he should never have given Wilson an extension.
It could have waited until the offseason. Its not like a player and there would be 30 teams lined up to sign him. I honestly believe that the team did not like him as a coach.

So the team would look like this

Lupul Richards Kessell
Frattin Grabovski Macarthur
Kadri Bozak Armstrong
Brown Steckel Lombardi
Orr,Rosehill

Phaneuf Gunner
Liles Schenn
Komisarek Franson
Gardiner

Reimer
Back up

Also there are a couple of things I dont like about BB

He is too loyal to his friends. In business you have to put the business first before friends.

These self imposed trade deadlines.(ie before Xmas and trade deadline) Again for the sake of the business you should be open anytime to make deals you think would improve the team.

He is too stubborn to admit his mistakes and move on.

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Old
03-16-2012, 09:48 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christ View Post
And you knew that we were going to be a top 2 draft pick comming into the season when the rest of the hockey world expected us to finish around our typical 7-12 pick? I thought we were supposed to be honest with ourselves in this discussion?
So the hockey world expected us to be between 7th-12th that year yet i keep getting told Burkes retool is taking longer than expected because the team he took over was pathetic .

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Old
03-16-2012, 09:51 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Durkin67 View Post
Exactly. So, without a legit top line of talent to insulate the youngster while he develops, do you recommend throwing him onto the big stage right out of the gate?
No, you put him in the AHL, then when you do bring him up and start him on the 4th line, playing against other 4th lines for 7-8 minutes a game and go from there. Like Boston did and what the Leafs can't do.

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Old
03-16-2012, 09:52 AM
  #24
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I would do the only thing logical... hire Brian Burke and demote myself to assistant GM. That way I can inform Burke I have the ability to see into the future about 3 years and tell him what to decisions to and not to make.

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03-16-2012, 09:56 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notdoneyet View Post
I like everything BB has done up to the start of free agency last year.

I love the Kessell,Phaneuf,Kaberle, Gardiner and Franson deals.
Just a great bunch of acquisitions. To be fair even BB never figured Lombardi would
recover that quickly. I believe when BB made the deal he was hoping to keep
Lombardi on the LTIR so his cap hit wouldnt count.

Here is where I think it went downhill.

Going with two inexperienced goalies. If you remember lst year GUS
really didnt play well and Reimer stole the show.

In my opinion I would have gotten a veteren backup, someone capable of
taking some of the pressure off Reimer. And when he didnt do that and
Reimer got hurt we had to play Scrivens because at that time no one had any
concidence that GUS could take the ball and run with it. Gus is not a bad goalie but he is not a #1. He lets in too many soft goals, at least one a game.
So the second mistake BB made was not to get a goalie when Reimer went down.

Another mistake was to settle for TC as our new center. Everyone knew the
shinny on TC- Good skills but injury prone and does not play with passion. I just feel we settled for something we didnt want because he was the only center left,
which brings me to my third point.

I would have traded Kulemin and Kadri for M Richards if that was for sure the asking price. Again hindsight being 20/20 no one including myself would have thought that
Kulemin would has the poor year he has had and again that Kadri would still be in the minors. But again that is what BB and his six million dollar team should have the hockey sense to realize someone like MR doesnt get traded every day and in my opinion that is the DEAl he most should have jumped on. To me give PHI whatever they want for Richards as he is everything we are now hoping to get.

And last but not least he should never have given Wilson an extension.
It could have waited until the offseason. Its not like a player and there would be 30 teams lined up to sign him. I honestly believe that the team did not like him as a coach.

So the team would look like this

Lupul Richards Kessell
Frattin Grabovski Macarthur
Kadri Bozak Armstrong
Brown Steckel Lombardi
Orr,Rosehill

Phaneuf Gunner
Liles Schenn
Komisarek Franson
Gardiner

Reimer
Back up

Also there are a couple of things I dont like about BB

He is too loyal to his friends. In business you have to put the business first before friends.

These self imposed trade deadlines.(ie before Xmas and trade deadline) Again for the sake of the business you should be open anytime to make deals you think would improve the team.

He is too stubborn to admit his mistakes and move on.
How is Kadri there if we traded him for Richards? I like most of your points and would have done the same except made a huge run at Vokoun(likely wouldn't have signed here because he wanted to go to a contender though)

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