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ATD 2012 Line-up Assassination Thread

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Old
03-20-2012, 04:06 PM
  #151
BillyShoe1721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
Really appreciate the insight here. Confirmed some of my suspicions and opened my eyes to some things I didn't consider.

Yeah I definitely felt some shame picking Roberts over so many of the other options out there. I got way too caught up in the silly intangibles game and panicked after Cashman went. Blunder indeed.

I agree too about the value of where I got Worsley. Definitely didn't anticipate the glut of talented netminders available later on. I still think Gump is a great goalie though and think I took him in the right order among other goalies even if the value was a bit off.

I didn't make a bio on Hedberg yet but I found a few compliments on his defensive game and Fred Shero was complimentary of him and xxx's willingness to go in the corners. To your point though, the willingness and effectiveness in an ATD setting are much different. I'm just worried Pappin gives up too much offensively, but at the same time I don't want a player who can't keep up physically with how Lindros and LeClair play so I'll have to think on this one.

Also isn't Richard that safety valve on that top line? I see Roberts doing the heavy-lifting in the corners even if Richard can keep up in that area. I saw his great two-way game as a good guy to play with Orr. Hedberg seemed decent defensively again from the little I gathered, but that's nothing too special.
Surprisingly, that guy is still undrafted.

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03-20-2012, 04:07 PM
  #152
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Wow that is very interesting, why do you think he had such high Hart votes for those seasons?
He probably played a lot as a defenseman those seasons - early hart voting seemed to favor multipositional guys (and perhaps it should have).

Syd Howe's a tough one to place in the ATD because he sometimes switched positions within the season, and it's hard to know what his time at D adds to what he does at LW

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03-20-2012, 04:10 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
Surprisingly, that guy is still undrafted.
But does it matter at this point?

I guess maybe it does with add/drop in effect

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Old
03-20-2012, 04:22 PM
  #154
Rob Scuderi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
Surprisingly, that guy is still undrafted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
But does it matter at this point?

I guess maybe it does with add/drop in effect
Oh I missed that one. Yeah I guess it does make sense to keep the names out of this thread until the add/drop window ends at least.

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Old
03-20-2012, 04:30 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
LES CANADIENS DE MONTRÉAL



GM: BenchBrawl
Captain:kelly
Assistant:denneny
Assistant:nighbor

HEAD COACH

Pat Burns


ROSTER

Cy Denneny - Frank Nighbor - Helmut Balderis
Patrik Elias - Adam Oates - Bryan Hextall Sr.
Craig Ramsay - Phil Goyette - Claude Provost
Patrick Marleau - Vincent Lecavalier - Tomas Sandstrom

Harry Howell - Leonard ''Red'' Kelly
Barry Beck - Dan Boyle
Jamie Macoun - Ron Stackhouse

Harry Lumley
Andy Moog

spares: Craig Conroy , Andre Dupont , Jason Spezza



SPECIAL UNITS

PP
Denneny - Oates - Balderis
Boyle - Kelly

Elias/Lecavalier/Marleau - Nighbor - Hextall
Goyette - Beck


PK
Ramsay - Nighbor
Howell - Beck

Goyette - Provost
Kelly - Macoun

OFFENSIVE HERO LINE
Denneny - Oates - Hextall Sr.
Boyle - Kelly
( Nighbor , Balderis )

DEFENSIVE HERO LINE
Ramsay - Nighbor - Provost
Howell - Kelly
I guess I'll go ahead and do an official review of Reen's team, as I've already said so much about it. Another one of the teams that I think is a legit contender to win it all.

Overall: I like the stylistic consistency of this team, which is not an easy thing to achieve in the ATD. The top three lines and top two pairings are built to all function the same way, and are well suited to the coach. It doesn't take a lot of deep thinking to see that this is a tight-checking, counterattacking team that will be quite good at controlling the puck.

Goal: The weakest part of the team. Lumley is a lower-end starter in the ATD, though one that you got at great value who is not far behind goalies taken more than 200 picks earlier. He's a solid netminder who won't lose you a series.

Defense: Red Kelly is one of the elite, and a known commodity. Not much to needs to be said. You cut it close with Howell, because I think Howell and Bill White (who went at the pick right after yours) were the last two defensive-defensemen taken in this draft who are well-suited for first pairing minutes in the ATD. Howell is a lower-end #2, but a very solid and consistent player who is a good match for Kelly. Overall, an above-average top pairing mainly because Kelly is excellent.

I have already said a lot about your second pairing (both of whom are "my guys"), and I won't repeat my arguments here. Boyle and Beck are both fringe 3/4 guys in the ATD who are a good fit together stylistically, and make about an average second pairing. Beck is one of those physical defensemen (like Schoenfeld), who generally missed around 10 games/season during his prime due to wear and tear, so Jamie Macoun will have to step up a bit during the regular season, but it's not a big deal. Overall, a slightly above average defensive corps that is tilted a bit more towards offense than defense.

Forwards: Maybe the best forward lines in the league, top to bottom. Considering how popular the reuniting of old linemates has become in the ATD (Gretzky - Kurri have been making out for, like, three drafts straight or something), it's a little surprising that this is the first time Denneny - Nighbor have been reunited here, but you have the honor of being the first to do it. It's obviously a strong core for a first line, and you filled out the unit with maybe the best value pick in the draft (at least at forward) in Helmut Balderis, who is similar enough to Darragh stylistically (both were great skaters and stickhandlers) that it seems like a big offensive upgrade without really changing how the line functioned in real life. I don't know if it was dumb luck, design or fate that led you to finish the line with Balderis, but it was quite possibly the best pick of the draft. A strong two-way top line.

The second line is among the best in the draft. Adam Oates in the ATD doesn't usually get wingers as good as the ones he had in real life, but you immediately went out and drafted a really good match for him in Bryan Hextall. Elias' well-rounded game completes the unit, and there is nothing really missing. Oates will have to play somewhat conservatively in Burns' system, but I think he showed later in his career that he is capable of playing that style when that is his role, and with Elias in support, this is another strong two-way line.

Ramsay - Goyette - Provost stands out as probably the best third line in the draft. Although I defended him, I think you took Provost a bit too early, but if you're going to reach for an elite guy, it is better to go all-in and make an elite unit, and you did that. Provost and Ramsay are pretty much known commodities here. As it was with Howell, you just slipped under the wire with Phil Goyette, who was maybe the last center available who could really "tie the room together" for Ramsay and Provost. I think Goyette and Backstrom are basically equals, which I guess makes Goyette underrated as he tends to go a couple rounds later than Backstrom for no clear reason. The fact that Goyette and Provost played together for about four seasons on Montreal's checkingline is a nice bonus. At any rate, this is pretty much a prototype third line, with great checking at all positions and enough offense (driven by Goyette's strong playmaking) to be dangerous in the counterattack and hold onto the puck for a long time when they get it. The only real weakness of the unit is that none of the three is overly big or physical (though both wingers had plenty of jam), and it will not match up particularly well against power lines like Pittsburgh's LOD redux.

Overall: If there is a heaven, Pat Burns is there right now coaching a team very much like this one. That being said, no team is perfect, and this team is backstopped by a low-end goalie and lacks clear leadership among the players (though there are no big jerks, either), so occasional letdowns are a possibility. Although the checking from the forwards is excellent, there is no clear shutdown pairing, so this is not a team that can easily sit on a lead. The special teams units are all strong, however, which is always important in the playoffs, and the parts seem to mesh well together without any clear weaknesses among the skaters. One of the teams with a legitimate shot at winning it all.


Last edited by Sturminator: 03-20-2012 at 04:56 PM. Reason: I always ****ing misspell Ramsay's name
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Old
03-20-2012, 04:33 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
He probably played a lot as a defenseman those seasons - early hart voting seemed to favor multipositional guys (and perhaps it should have).
And the rest of the answer is that in 1945, an over-the-hill Howe received Hart votes because the NHL was a **** show at the time.

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03-20-2012, 04:37 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Vancouver Millionares


Head coach: Mike Keenan
Assistant coach: John Tortorella
Captain: Milt Schmidt
Assistants: Rod Langway, Tom Johnson

''Busher'' Jackson - Milt Schmidt - Gordie Drillon
Rick Martin - Igor Larionov - Rene Robert
Simon Gagne - Slava Starshinov - Bobby Rousseau
Kirk Maltby - Ryan Kesler - Jamie Langenbrunner
Lorne Carr
Milan Lucic

Rod Langway - Tom Johnson
Craig Hartsburg - Paul Reinhart
Ian Turnbull - Adam Foote
Jyrki Lumme

Ken Dryden
Gerry Cheevers


PP #1:
Jackson-Schmidt-Drillon
Turnbull-Reinhart

PP #2:
Martin-Larionov-Starshinov
Hartsburg-Johnson

PK#1:
Maltby-Kesler
Langway-Johnson

PK#2:
Gagne-Schmidt
Hartsburg-Foote

Vancouver Millionaires review:

Forwards:

Line 1 - I think this should be a very dangerous offensive trio. The wings are weak on intangibles, but not on offensive talent. And Schmidt has enough grit and all-around play for the three of them.

Line 2 - It's ok, but I think it's missing a little bit of "oomph". Martin and Larionov are both legit 2nd liners, but I think Robert is underwhelming on a line where the other two players don't stand out as above average. That is, unless Robert brings more to the table physically or defensively than I know of. I think having more of a power guy on the right side would serve the other two well.

Line 3 - I like your third line. Strong defensively, with a good amount of offensive pop and a power player up the middle. I know assists are tough to gauge for Soviet Players sometimes, but any idea what Starshinov was like as a playmaker? Rousseau is a fine playmaker at RW, so it's not a big issue for the line, but a good playmaking centre made an obvious difference in Simon Gagne's game.

Line 4 - I think Kesler has done enough by this point to be a good 4th line C. I've had Langenbrunner once or twice and I like his game, and his playoff resume. Maltby is nothing special, but he's in his element. Good 4th line.



Defense:

1st Pairing - Langway and Johnson make for a very nice defensive pairing. I think their styles contrast well in that sense. Without looking, it's probably one of the weakest first pairings offensively though.

2nd Pairing - I have some reservations about this pairing in it's own end. I don't imagine either of them were terrible at even strength, but I've never really thought of Reinhart or Hartsburg as high-end defensive guys either. I recall reading that Hartsburg rushed the puck quite a bit, and I'm not sure Reinhart is the guy to cover for him. I think that guy should be Adam Foote. I'd swap him and Reinhart, who can still be a PP specialist from the bottom pairing.


3rd Pairing - Adam Foote is a fantastic bottom-pairing guy...but I think you need him on your second pairing. It might be worth looking into dropping a guy to pick up a more defensive spare. You'll lose on value, but right now you basically have 4 left-handed defensemen who play the same offensive role (Hartsburg, Reinhart, Turnbull, Lumme), but no real shut-down option for your bottom pairing. Or hell, you can drop Tortorella, since assistants don't make too much of a difference IMO. Or dangle Cheevers to a team who has a low-end starter? Idunno...I just feel like at least having the option of putting another stay-at-home defenseman in the lineup would do you a world of good here.



Goaltending - It's ok, I guess, if you're into that sort of thing. Elite starter, and one of the best backups. You're definitely set in net.



Coaching - So...which one plays good cop?

Keenan is a good coach, and for the most part you have a good team for him. Tortorella seems a little redundant, but I could be convinced otherwise if you let me in on your vision for the coaching duo.


Special Teams:

I like your PP units in terms of their roles. You have very good PP pointment, and a nice combination of shooters and net presence. But having just one right-handed shot between the two units is less than ideal. I believe Bobby Rousseau played the point regularly on the powerplay, so he gives you a lot of options in terms of trying to work him in there. I'd look into it, at least for the second unit. I don't think it's a huge issue at even strength, but a PP unit is in tough if all the players shoot from the same side, especially down low.

I think(?) Rousseau was a strong PKer too, so it might be something to look into. If he was, he and Kesler would give you a PK unit with some counter-punch potential, and Maltby could replace Gagne, who I think was more of a second-unit guy in Philly. I like your PK defensemen, and the units are pretty good overall.


Overall, a good team with some issues (a couple of them very fixable IMO).


Cheers!

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Old
03-20-2012, 04:40 PM
  #158
BillyShoe1721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Dzurilla is a solid backup as well. Like Brimsek he is regarded as his country's top goalie ever. Should Brimsek falter Dzurilla should be able to step in and be a good goalie for you.
Jiri Holecek disagrees. Holecek was named the best goalie at the World Championships 5 times to Dzurilla's 1 in a weaker era. Holecek was Czechoslovakia's go-to goalie in their golden era in the 70s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
(Gretzky - Kurri have been making out for, like, three drafts straight or something)
I had Kurri last year, but he was with Beliveau on my first line.

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03-20-2012, 04:42 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
So now we discredit articles because of which paper they come from?

Get real, the majority of articles for early era players come from either their hometown or home club paper.
Not really true, and anything as substantial as "player x was the best in the world at his position in season y" should be easy to substantiate from multiple sources if true. Look at the articles (three of them) I posted which call Brimsek the best goalie in the world in 1942-43 in spite of him being a 2nd team all-star: not a single one of them is from a Boston paper.

We have to be very careful with hometown reporting from the split league era. It is unlikely that the Calgary reporter who wrote that article had seen a single NHL game during the season in question; it's not like he had TiVo. We have to take these value judgments in context.

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03-20-2012, 04:45 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
I had Kurri last year, but he was with Beliveau on my first line.
I'm sure there was some surreptitious tongue action involved there.

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Old
03-20-2012, 05:00 PM
  #161
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Like others, I'll focus on division rivals, if I have time, I'll spread out more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoMakc View Post

Head Coach: Babcock
Captain: Patrick
Alternates: Federko, Ullman

Yakushev-Ullman-Lafleur
Schriner-Federko-J. Pronovost
Gottselig-Hay-Kovalev
Kelly Miller-Otto-Hebenton
Ron Sutter, M. Savard

Clancy-Kasatonov
L. Patrick-Schoenfeld
Ozolinsh-Bilyaletdinov
D.Redmond


Gardiner
Resch


Powerplay:
Yakushev - Federko - Lafleur
Clancy - Ozolinsh

Schriner - Ullman - Kovalev
Patrick-Kasatonov

Penalty Kill:
Miller - Otto
Schoenfeld - Kasatonov

Hay - Hebenton
Patrick - Bilyaletdinov

Gottselig - Ullman
Clancy - Kasatonov
Interesting team concept. Certainly would be one of the most exciting teams in the ATD. A lot of quick players and strong transition players. This team will excel in open ice in all three zones. The question is, how will they do when the ice closes up? Can any of the scoring lines grind out goals? Will Gardiner be able to get good looks at incoming shots? Being able to get strong transition attacks will be the key to success. The second line is the most glaring, if they can do their thing, one of the more potent 2nd lines, but also potentially the easiest to shutdown of any 2nd line, quite soft, Pronovost just doesn't have enough IMO to cover for Schriner and Federko, does anyone?

Power play looks strong, not mind blowing, but quite good. Penalty kill seems to be on the weaker side. Not great at clearing creases and Miller is the best PK forward which isn't great.

Three biggest strengths:
-Transition offence
-Open ice defence
-Scoring depth

Three biggest weaknesses:
-Ability to win battles in the corners
-Crease clearing
-May be intimidateable

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Old
03-20-2012, 05:01 PM
  #162
Nalyd Psycho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
Jiri Holecek disagrees. Holecek was named the best goalie at the World Championships 5 times to Dzurilla's 1 in a weaker era. Holecek was Czechoslovakia's go-to goalie in their golden era in the 70s.
Nowadays, Holecek and Dzurilla are from different countries. (Dzurilla is the best Slovak goalie ever.)

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Old
03-20-2012, 05:08 PM
  #163
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2nd Pairing - I have some reservations about this pairing in it's own end. I don't imagine either of them were terrible at even strength, but I've never really thought of Reinhart or Hartsburg as high-end defensive guys either. I recall reading that Hartsburg rushed the puck quite a bit, and I'm not sure Reinhart is the guy to cover for him. I think that guy should be Adam Foote. I'd swap him and Reinhart, who can still be a PP specialist from the bottom pairing.

3rd Pairing - Adam Foote is a fantastic bottom-pairing guy...but I think you need him on your second pairing. It might be worth looking into dropping a guy to pick up a more defensive spare. You'll lose on value, but right now you basically have 4 left-handed defensemen who play the same offensive role (Hartsburg, Reinhart, Turnbull, Lumme), but no real shut-down option for your bottom pairing. Or hell, you can drop Tortorella, since assistants don't make too much of a difference IMO. Or dangle Cheevers to a team who has a low-end starter? Idunno...I just feel like at least having the option of putting another stay-at-home defenseman in the lineup would do you a world of good here.
I agree with this part. Move Foote up to be the defensive conscience of the second pairing, drop Reinhart to the third pairing, drop Lumme, make Turnbull a spare and pick up a defensive-defenseman to be your regular #6. There are still tons of acceptable #6 defensive guys out there (protip: Mike Rathje!1!). Right now, your second pairing pretty much screams "red light", and not in a sexy way.

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03-20-2012, 05:10 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
I agree with this part. Move Foote up to be the defensive conscience of the second pairing, drop Reinhart to the third pairing, drop Lumme, make Turnbull a spare and pick up a defensive-defenseman to be your regular #6. There are still tons of acceptable #6 defensive guys out there (protip: Mike Rathje!1!). Right now, your second pairing pretty much screams "red light", and not in a sexy way.
Maybe after three or four telling him this he will FINALLY change his mind!

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03-20-2012, 05:13 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by God Made Me View Post
1893 Montreal AAA


Head Coach: Punch Imlach
Asst Head Coach: Joe Primeau
Captain: Phil Esposito
Assts: Pierre Pilote, Doug Bentley


Doug Bentley - Phil Esposito - Hooley Smith
Dany Heatley - Denis Savard - Larry Aurie
Jan Erixon - Orland Kurtenbach - Mike Keane
Rick Nash - Pierre Turgeon - John MacLean
F Peter McNab, LW Georges Mantha


Pierre Pilote - Bill White
Joe Hall - Babe Pratt
Rod Seiling - Shea Weber
Mark Tinordi

Billy Smith
Evgeni Nabokov

Powerplay 1:
Phil Esposito - Denis Savard - Hooley Smith
Pierre Pilote - Doug Bentley

Powerplay 2:
Dany Heatley - Pierre Turgeon - Larry Aurie
Shea Weber - Babe Pratt

Penalty Kill 1:
Orland Kurtenbach - Mike Keane
Rod Seiling - Bill White

Penalty Kill 2:
Jan Erixon - Hooley Smith
Pierre Pilote - Joe Hall
[/CENTER]

Note: During the regular season ONLY I am platooning my goalies.
I think I said this before, but that is the best Phil Esosito line ever put together in an ATD. I tip my hat to you. On the flipside, the defensive ability of your forwards may be the worst in the ATD. Your best defensive line may be your 1st line, and I wouldn't want Esposito matching up against top centres. The second line is potent, even if I'm not a fan of Aurie. The third line looks like a sub par 4th line. Kurtenbach is more of an enforcer who can take a regular shift at this level. Erixon is a PK specialist and Mike Keane is a character guy. (On that note, IMO, Erixon should be 1st PK as he is, IMO, a clearly better defensive player.) No one should be getting more than 8 minutes a night IMO. The 4th line is a great tertiary scoring line. But poor defensively. I can't help but wonder how chemistry will work between Imlach and a forward corps that is poor defensively. Will he give the Kurtenbach line 15 minutes a game to send a message that in all likelihood can't be lived up to by the players assembled?

The defence is very solid. Balanced and tough. Good offence, but defence is not thrown out the door. Pilote gives Espo the puck carrier he needs to be at his best.

Billy Smith is a warrior, but I'm not comfortable expecting more than 50 games from him, and Nabakov is not a strong back-up.

The powerplay is ridiculously good. But the penalty kill is suspect. The forwards are meh, and I'm not sure if the 5'8 Pilote is who you want trying to clear creases. He's strong defensiveky 5 on 5, but the PK doesn't play to his strengths.

Three biggest strengths:
-Best Esposito line ever
-Great power play
-Excellent scoring depth, including the blueline

Three biggest weaknesses:
-Coach/forward corps chemistry
-Defence from the forwards
-Regular season goaltending (And I know that is a weak complaint here, but IMO, this only has two problems, but they are significant.)

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Old
03-20-2012, 05:17 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
L'équipe nationale de France

(1928-2012)

Head Coach: Jacques Lemaire

Frank Mahovlich (A) - Sidney Crosby (A) - Didier Pitre
Paul Thompson - Milan Novy (A) - Odie Cleghorn
Nick Metz - Ralph Backstrom - Floyd Curry
Jaroslav Jirik - Billy Burch - Alf Skinner
Buddy O'Connor (C)
Harry Oliver (RW, C)
John Ferguson (LW, RW)

Valeri Vasiliev (C) - Jan Suchy
Moose Vasko - Frank Patrick
Taffy Abel - Jiri Bubla
Behn Wilson

Dominik Hasek
Chuck Rayner


Powerplay:
Frank Mahovlich - Sidney Crosby - Didier Pitre
Jan Suchy - Jiri Bubla

Paul Thompson - Odie Cleghorn - Milan Novy
Valery Vasiliev - Frank Patrick

Penalty Kill:
Floyd Curry - Nick Metz
Moose Vasko - Valery Vasiliev
Dominik Hasek

Paul Thompson - Ralph Backstrom
Taffy Abel - Jan Suchy
Dominik Hasek

Frank Mahovlich - Sidney Crosby
Elmer Vasko - Valery Vasiliev
Dominik Hasek

Goaltending: With Hasek and Rayer, you've got the best starter and the best back-up as far as I'm concerned.

Defence: When you wait to the 3rd round to pick your #1 defenseman, the best you can hope for is a guy like Val Vasiliev. He'll be one of the weaker ones, but he's a servicable #1. With Jan Suchy, it's extremely difficult to get an accurate read on where he stands among his peers. Personally, I think he'll be a weak, but aceptable top pairing defenseman. Vasiliev holds down the defensive end, and Suchy can fly up ice.

With Moose Vasko, I think you have a pretty solid #3 guy. He's huge, can skate, and makes a decent first pass. I'm very high on Frank Patrick. I think he was a better player than Lester, so you'e got an eite #4 in my mind. This looks like a pretty physical pair that can skate.

Overall, your blueline is pretty unspectacularly solid. The lack of a stud is really going to hurt your PP.

Forwards: I really look forward to some Sid Crosby match-ups. He's got a tremendous offesive peak, but no longevity, so we'll see. As for his overall game, I see him as a very good puck-winner, and a decent defensive player. Frank Mahovlich and Didier Pitre are good goalscoring wingers - Mahovlich is elite and Petire is decent for the 1st line - but they don't bring much else. I'd be worried that Crosby is the toughest guy and the primary puck-winner, but this should be a pretty good offensive unit.

I'm also looking forward to some Milan Novy comparisons. I think he's close offensively to Vlad Petrov. Odie Cleghorn is one of my favourite "glue" wingers - he's a beast. Paul Thompson is a well-rounded player, and I like how he fits in here. Novy might be one of the weaker centers, but overall I like this unit.

Ralph Backstrom is a real nice 2-way center here. I'm not really sure about how well he'd do in a shut-down role, but he'll play good minutes and be great on the PK. Nick Metz is an elite checking LW. Floyd Curry was a great bargain pick where you got him. He's good defensively and raises his game in the play-offs. While all the players are great individually, I'm not convinced of the chemisrty. Backstrom is a great counter-attack threat, but the other two don't help at all. Maybe a flip of Curry and Alf Skinner would help there. Personally, I think Skinner is much better than Curry anyway.

Coaching: Jacques Lemaire is a solid coach who needs a specific kind of team to succeed, and I think you team is pretty close to perfect for his style. I think he will have your roster playing better than the sum of the parts.

Powerplay: Basically, without a true quarterback, your PP is going to struggle. The forwards are solid, but the puck movement from the blueline is lacking. I would consider using Pitre on the point - he has a great shot and was a rushing defenseman for a coupler seasons.

Penalty Kill: Your PK players are excellent - maybe the best in the draft? Then you add in Lemaire as coach..... then you add Hasek inn net. I think we're looking at the league leading PK here.

(I like how you put "Hasek" in your PK units )

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03-20-2012, 05:19 PM
  #167
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Three biggest strengths:
-Transition offence
-Open ice defence
-Scoring depth

Three biggest weaknesses:
-Ability to win battles in the corners
-Crease clearing
-May be intimidateable
Reminds me a bit of our ATD#8 team, although obviously not as amazingly boss in every way. I think you are underrating the crease-clearing skills of Kasatonov and Schoenfeld, both of whom are strong in their roles. I actually think Schoenfeld is underrated in the ATD. Here is his AST voting record:

Quote:
Jim Schoenfeld:

1974-75: 13th
1975-76: 12th
1976-77: 9th
1977-78: 8th
1978-79: 11th
1979-80: 4th
1980-81: 10th
That is excellent for a #4 defenseman, and he was big and physical. I think Schoenfeld and Beck (and Hatcher) are all essentially equals, and like Beck, Jim will miss 10 games or so in the regular season, but when he's suited up, he will clear the crease just fine.

The second line is definitely soft, though, and the team lacks any true fighters, although Domack could easily just drop one of his spares for a designated goon (which I actually think is a good idea). At this point, Joel Otto is probably the toughest fighter on the team, and once he's been beaten to a pulp by the Horners and/or Cleghorns of the league, the rest of the team is just asking to get mauled. Extra minors for instigation are all fine and good, but they're not worth a broken orbital bone.

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03-20-2012, 05:20 PM
  #168
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Thanks for the review Dreakmur. I will comment later. I'm not kidding, I was opening a second web browser so I could see your entire team while doing your assassination!

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(I like how you put "Hasek" in your PK units )
The goaltender is easily the most important part of a PK unit, so why not acknowledge him?

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03-20-2012, 05:26 PM
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Thanks for the review Dreakmur. I will comment later. I'm not kidding, I was opening a second web browser so I could see your entire team while doing your assassination!
I always just cut/paste into a word document

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The goaltender is easily the most important part of a PK unit, so why not acknowledge him?
I agree. I just thought it ws funny.

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03-20-2012, 05:27 PM
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Reminds me a bit of our ATD#8 team, although obviously not as amazingly boss in every way. I think you are underrating the crease-clearing skills of Kasatonov and Schoenfeld, both of whom are strong in their roles. I actually think Schoenfeld is underrated in the ATD. Here is his AST voting record:



That is excellent for a #4 defenseman, and he was big and physical. I think Schoenfeld and Beck (and Hatcher) are all essentially equals, and like Beck, Jim will miss 10 games or so in the regular season, but when he's suited up, he will clear the crease just fine.

The second line is definitely soft, though, and the team lacks any true fighters, although Domack could easily just drop one of his spares for a designated goon (which I actually think is a good idea). At this point, Joel Otto is probably the toughest fighter on the team, and once he's been beaten to a pulp by the Horners and/or Cleghorns of the league, the rest of the team is just asking to get mauled. Extra minors for instigation are all fine and good, but they're not worth a broken orbital bone.
I am aware of Schoenfeld's ability, I just don't think he can handle the load himself, and while Kasatonov helps, he's not elite.

And I strongly disagree with saying Schoenfeld and Beck are comparable to Hatcher. Peak value yes, but Hatcher has a VERY significant career value edge on both of them.

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03-20-2012, 05:46 PM
  #171
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And I strongly disagree with saying Schoenfeld and Beck are comparable to Hatcher. Peak value yes, but Hatcher has a VERY significant career value edge on both of them.
Both of them have better peak value than Hatcher though, and it's not really that close.

Does a pairing need more than one crease-clearer?

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03-20-2012, 05:46 PM
  #172
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Vancouver Millionaires review:

Forwards:

Line 1 - I think this should be a very dangerous offensive trio. The wings are weak on intangibles, but not on offensive talent. And Schmidt has enough grit and all-around play for the three of them.

Line 2 - It's ok, but I think it's missing a little bit of "oomph". Martin and Larionov are both legit 2nd liners, but I think Robert is underwhelming on a line where the other two players don't stand out as above average. That is, unless Robert brings more to the table physically or defensively than I know of. I think having more of a power guy on the right side would serve the other two well.

Line 3 - I like your third line. Strong defensively, with a good amount of offensive pop and a power player up the middle. I know assists are tough to gauge for Soviet Players sometimes, but any idea what Starshinov was like as a playmaker? Rousseau is a fine playmaker at RW, so it's not a big issue for the line, but a good playmaking centre made an obvious difference in Simon Gagne's game.

Line 4 - I think Kesler has done enough by this point to be a good 4th line C. I've had Langenbrunner once or twice and I like his game, and his playoff resume. Maltby is nothing special, but he's in his element. Good 4th line.



Defense:

1st Pairing - Langway and Johnson make for a very nice defensive pairing. I think their styles contrast well in that sense. Without looking, it's probably one of the weakest first pairings offensively though.

2nd Pairing - I have some reservations about this pairing in it's own end. I don't imagine either of them were terrible at even strength, but I've never really thought of Reinhart or Hartsburg as high-end defensive guys either. I recall reading that Hartsburg rushed the puck quite a bit, and I'm not sure Reinhart is the guy to cover for him. I think that guy should be Adam Foote. I'd swap him and Reinhart, who can still be a PP specialist from the bottom pairing.


3rd Pairing - Adam Foote is a fantastic bottom-pairing guy...but I think you need him on your second pairing. It might be worth looking into dropping a guy to pick up a more defensive spare. You'll lose on value, but right now you basically have 4 left-handed defensemen who play the same offensive role (Hartsburg, Reinhart, Turnbull, Lumme), but no real shut-down option for your bottom pairing. Or hell, you can drop Tortorella, since assistants don't make too much of a difference IMO. Or dangle Cheevers to a team who has a low-end starter? Idunno...I just feel like at least having the option of putting another stay-at-home defenseman in the lineup would do you a world of good here.



Goaltending - It's ok, I guess, if you're into that sort of thing. Elite starter, and one of the best backups. You're definitely set in net.



Coaching - So...which one plays good cop?

Keenan is a good coach, and for the most part you have a good team for him. Tortorella seems a little redundant, but I could be convinced otherwise if you let me in on your vision for the coaching duo.


Special Teams:

I like your PP units in terms of their roles. You have very good PP pointment, and a nice combination of shooters and net presence. But having just one right-handed shot between the two units is less than ideal. I believe Bobby Rousseau played the point regularly on the powerplay, so he gives you a lot of options in terms of trying to work him in there. I'd look into it, at least for the second unit. I don't think it's a huge issue at even strength, but a PP unit is in tough if all the players shoot from the same side, especially down low.

I think(?) Rousseau was a strong PKer too, so it might be something to look into. If he was, he and Kesler would give you a PK unit with some counter-punch potential, and Maltby could replace Gagne, who I think was more of a second-unit guy in Philly. I like your PK defensemen, and the units are pretty good overall.


Overall, a good team with some issues (a couple of them very fixable IMO).


Cheers!
Thanks for the lengthy review bud. A couple things:

My pairings originally were: 1)Langway-Reinhart 2)Hartsburg-Johnson 3)Turnbull-Foote. I thought these were ok but then EB went and convinced me that Reinhart wasn't top pair material (which I knew, but I was trying to balance a stay at home and puck mover on each pair). I'm not dropping Tortorella as coaching is very important, and I don't really see the need to drop Lumme for a stay at homer when I have probably the best group of 3 in the division with Langway-Johnson-Foote.

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03-20-2012, 05:49 PM
  #173
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I agree with this part. Move Foote up to be the defensive conscience of the second pairing, drop Reinhart to the third pairing, drop Lumme, make Turnbull a spare and pick up a defensive-defenseman to be your regular #6. There are still tons of acceptable #6 defensive guys out there (protip: Mike Rathje!1!). Right now, your second pairing pretty much screams "red light", and not in a sexy way.
It's a lose-lose for me with you then. When my second pair was Hartsburg-Johnson (no problems with defensive coverage what so ever), you said Reinhart wouldn't cut it next to Langway.

Drop Turnbull and pick up a purely defensive defenceman for #6...in turn hurting my powerplay quite a bit? Not happening.

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03-20-2012, 05:51 PM
  #174
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Coach: Barry Trotz
Assistant coach: Larry Robinson

Frank Foyston - Peter Forsberg - Owen Nolan
Smokey Harris - Nels Stewart - Alf Smith
Tony Leswick - Mike Peca - Johnny Peirson
Ilya Kovalchuk - Red Sullivan - Bill Goldworthy
Garry Unger - Andre Boudrias

Nicklas Lidström - Larry Murphy
Harvey Pulford - Teppo Numminen
Kevin Hatcher - Jack Portland
Wade Redden

Martin Brodeur
Roger Crozier

PP1:
Nels Stewart - Peter Forsberg - Alf Smith
Ilya Kovalchuk - Nicklas Lidstrom

PP2:
Smokey Harris - Frank Foyston - Owen Nolan
Kevin Hatcher - Larry Murphy

Pk1:
Michael Peca - Tony Leswick
Harvey Pulford - Nicklas Lidstrom

PK2:
Red Sullivan - Johnny Peirson
Jack Portland - Teppo Numminen
With no surprise, the assassination of the Angelholm Rogle. I'm terrible at doing assassination, but I will try my best!


1st line - Not the strongest offensively, but the unit works well together. Foyston and Forsberg are two third of a great two-way line, while Nolan will dig the corners for that line.

2nd line - Stewart and Smith are two third of a very nasty offensive line. I prefer my slow players to be playmakers instead of goalscorers, but that's why Stewart always fell, as he's a legitimate top-100 All-Time player. Another typical ATD scoring line with Smith digging, Harris passing and Stewart scoring. Not much of defnesive abilities though.

3rd line - I was about calling your first line the one that would play against the opposition's best, but then I saw this combination. Leswick is a terrific agitator, Peca is undoubtedly a strong defensive centre. I'm not sold at all on Peirson defensive abilites and unsure what he bring to this line.

4th line - Another typical scoring line. Kovalchuk ought to be the best offensive 4th liner in this draft.

1st pairing - Reuniting a real life pairing with one of the strongest defenceman in the draft. Not much to say. Well above average.

2nd pairing - Pulford is a fine #3 defenceman, complemented well with another fine #4 defenceman in Teppo Numminen. I like it.

3rd pairing - A non-descript third pairing. Surprise Kevin Hatcher is not somewhere to be seen on the PP.

Goaltenders - Martin Brodeur is #6 on my All-Time list, Crozier is a decent backup, but you didn't needed more with a workhorse like Brodeur.

PP - I think I would prefer Stewart in the slot over Forsberg. Both are excellent at that spot, but I would like my injure-prone forward not taking that much abuse if possible. But at the end, it's nit-picking, that 1st PP is excellent. I still hate seeing Kovalchuk on the point. He's a turnover machine in the NHL, I cannot imagine how much shorthanded breakaways he will create against the very best PK player of All-Time. Switch him with Kevin Hatcher, put Kovalchuk and Foyston on the wing with Smith up front. Or move down Forsberg or Stewart on the 2nd PP and have two lethal PP's.

PK - I love the first PK, not in love with the 2ndPK, especially the forwards. I don't see Sullivan or Peirson as PK worthy players.

Good Luck in the regular season and playoffs!

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03-20-2012, 05:52 PM
  #175
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It's a lose-lose for me with you then. When my second pair was Hartsburg-Johnson (no problems with defensive coverage what so ever), you said Reinhart wouldn't cut it next to Langway.

Drop Turnbull and pick up a purely defensive defenceman for #6...in turn hurting my powerplay quite a bit? Not happening.
Keep Turnbull then and protect your third pairing (I understand not wanting to drop Turnbull and hurt your powerplay), but for the love of all that is holy, move Adam Foote up to the 2nd pairing. I'm hardly Foote's biggest fan, but Hartsburg - Reinhart is going to get mutilated by some of the second lines in the league.

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