The Rangers SHOULD NOT move Staal, Girardi, McDonagh or MDZ. They should also hold onto Bickel and Sauer if at all possible.
Erixon and McIlrath are still works in progress but both look promising. Just give it time. Let the situation develop naturally. There will be injuries where the young guys can get some playing time slowly. The Rangers are not the Islanders who need to throw 20-21 year old kids back on defense and hope they float.
The Rangers SHOULD NOT move Staal, Girardi, McDonagh or MDZ. They should also hold onto Bickel and Sauer if at all possible.
Erixon and McIlrath are still works in progress but both look promising. Just give it time. Let the situation develop naturally. There will be injuries where the young guys can get some playing time slowly. The Rangers are not the Islanders who need to throw 20-21 year old kids back on defense and hope they float.
Under normal circumstance I would agree. But the Rangers wont be able to keep all of them. It's unrealistic. You have to factor in that players on winning teams are coveted and will be offered more money from other teams. If the Rangers get to the CF or higher, it'll skyrocket their worth.
One of the "Big Four" will have to get moved eventually. That's why I like the idea od throwing Erixon and McIlrath to the wolves as early as possible to prepare them in case some wacky team throws a ridiculous offer sheet at MDZ or Macdonagh.
Because of Staal's cap hit and term, coupled with the Rangers' success without him, makes me think his departure would make the most sense.
Under normal circumstance I would agree. But the Rangers wont be able to keep all of them. It's unrealistic. You have to factor in that players on winning teams are coveted and will be offered more money from other teams. If the Rangers get to the CF or higher, it'll skyrocket their worth.
One of the "Big Four" will have to get moved eventually. That's why I like the idea od throwing Erixon and McIlrath to the wolves as early as possible to prepare them in case some wacky team throws a ridiculous offer sheet at MDZ or Macdonagh.
Because of Staal's cap hit and term, coupled with the Rangers' success without him, makes me think his departure would make the most sense.
It's not unrealistic at all to hold onto all of them for another year or 2. From there you move from the position of strength to either open up a spot for a young kid who has developed on schedule or from the prospect pool to fill another need. I would doubt Staal would be the one to be moved.
Also, I am sick of hearing this "The Rangers were really good without Staal so they must not need him!!" rhetoric. It's completely false. Hey look, the Flyers are playing REALLY well without Pronger. They should trade him. The Pens played amazing without Crosby and Letang, they should move both of them.
It's not unrealistic at all to hold onto all of them for another year or 2. From there you move from the position of strength to either open up a spot for a young kid who has developed on schedule or from the prospect pool to fill another need. I would doubt Staal would be the one to be moved.
Also, I am sick of hearing this "The Rangers were really good without Staal so they must not need him!!" rhetoric. It's completely false. Hey look, the Flyers are playing REALLY well without Pronger. They should trade him. The Pens played amazing without Crosby and Letang, they should move both of them.
Staal has never accomplished what Letang, Pronger and Crosby have accomplished. Poor examples. Those three legitimately make their teams better by being in the lineup. Staal, at least this season, certainly has not outside of a few games where he was solid.
Besides, the Pens and Flyers dont have coveted RFA's at the same position due for a huge raise. If Crosby sucked, was coming off a nasty concussion and was as productive as Blake Comeau, and Malkin was a pending UFA, you dont think the Pens would consider trading him?
Somebody's going to have to go. Why would they get rid of MDZ who is having a career season? Why would they get rid of Macdonagh, who has supplanted Staal on the top pairing?
Why would they get rid of Girardi, who has anchored the best defense in the EC for an entire season?
Staal is the one who needs to prove himself again. Not the other three.
Staal has never accomplished what Letang, Pronger and Crosby have accomplished. Poor examples. Those three legitimately make their teams better by being in the lineup. Staal, at least this season, certainly has not outside of a few games where he was solid.
Besides, the Pens and Flyers dont have coveted RFA's at the same position due for a huge raise. If Crosby sucked, was coming off a nasty concussion and was as productive as Blake Comeau, and Malkin was a pending UFA, you dont think the Pens would consider trading him?
Somebody's going to have to go. Why would they get rid of MDZ who is having a career season? Why would they get rid of Macdonagh, who has supplanted Staal on the top pairing?
Why would they get rid of Girardi, who has anchored the best defense in the EC for an entire season?
Staal is the one who needs to prove himself again. Not the other three.
This is the prototypical "what have you done for me lately" argument.
Marc Staal has been this team's #1 defenseman for 3 years. He missed an entire off-season, training camp and 40+ games before getting back. He is going to be rusty. He also has looked pretty good lately blocking shots and playing physical.
MDZ had a TERRIBLE season last year. McDonagh played 40 games in the NHL before this season.
Take a larger sample size than the 36 games he has played in after returning from a serious concussion. He was an All-Star last season for a reason. He was invited to the Canadian Olympic try-outs for a reason. He is a highly touted shut-down defenseman for a reason.
You came in here and compared him to an undrafted journeyman
Well, Gilroy wasn't a journeyman at the tie of his signing, for obvious reasons, sooo...
I do see where I was mistaken--Schultz is a round round pick and has been good since sophomore season. THAT is the biggest difference. The ONLY major difference...
It is good Schultz is 3+ years younger, mainly for whatever team signs him. But the idea that there is some tremendous developmental gap between a 21-year-old and a 25-year old in the NCAA, is blown way out of proportion in this thread. We struck gold 3 times with Hagelin, McDonagh and Stepan, who all made the jump within a month.
You only "develop" so far in junior hockey--NCAA, CHL, USHL, NAMBLA, whatever... there also is not a tremendous difference in physical ability between the ages of 21 and 25... Gilroy had never done any WJCs or anything that would make him further "developed" so the idea that Gilroy was "more developed" and henceforth not as good in lieu of his performance, is almost naive.
We're not discussing photos in a black room here--some guys are just good. So they're development seems to be on the same level, Schultz is just better.
This is the prototypical "what have you done for me lately" argument.
Marc Staal has been this team's #1 defenseman for 3 years. He missed an entire off-season, training camp and 40+ games before getting back. He is going to be rusty. He also has looked pretty good lately blocking shots and playing physical.
MDZ had a TERRIBLE season last year. McDonagh played 40 games in the NHL before this season.
Take a larger sample size than the 36 games he has played in after returning from a serious concussion. He was an All-Star last season for a reason. He was invited to the Canadian Olympic try-outs for a reason. He is a highly touted shut-down defenseman for a reason.
I completely understand, but you're not factoring the nature of the business. If you stack up all of our dmen in a row, to include the prospects, you'd see that Staal is the guy who draws the most concern, for the following reasons:
1) His health
2) His play
3) His salary
4) His term
I like Staal. I think he can get back to his pre-concussion form. The problem is that we dont know when it's going to happen, and when if it does return, we wont know what the value of all our other d-men will be.
You're sugarcoating Staal's play, IMO. Perron, for example, missed way more time than Staal and having the best season of his career. Staal, IMO, has been afforded enough time to regain his strength, timing and hand-eye coordination. Four months post-recovery, he's getting outworked, outmuscled, blowing assignments, making horrible decisions with the puck, and quite frankly is a liability on the ice.
Can he turn it around? I sure friggin hope so. But what happens to this team in the offseason will be dicatated by the postseason. If Staal becomes the pre-concussion Staal in the playoffs, then it might change the strategy for the offseason.
It's hockey. Hell, it's a pro sport. It's always been "What have you done for me lately". Dubinsky was as good as gone a month ago. I wonder why. You think Sather would have felt the same if Dubinsky was having a 30-30 season?
Bottom line -- if Staal continues to trend downward, it makes moving him all the more justifiable. What he did before his play turned south wont mean anything if he's slumping and Macdonagh and MDZ are up for contract renewal.
I completely understand, but you're not factoring the nature of the business. If you stack up all of our dmen in a row, to include the prospects, you'd see that Staal is the guy who draws the most concern, for the following reasons:
1) His health
2) His play
3) His salary
4) His term
I like Staal. I think he can get back to his pre-concussion form. The problem is that we dont know when it's going to happen, and when if it does return, we wont know what the value of all our other d-men will be.
You're sugarcoating Staal's play, IMO. Perron, for example, missed way more time than Staal and having the best season of his career. Staal, IMO, has been afforded enough time to regain his strength, timing and hand-eye coordination. Four months post-recovery, he's getting outworked, outmuscled, blowing assignments, making horrible decisions with the puck, and quite frankly is a liability on the ice.
Can he turn it around? I sure friggin hope so. But what happens to this team in the offseason will be dicatated by the postseason. If Staal becomes the pre-concussion Staal in the playoffs, then it might change the strategy for the offseason.
It's hockey. Hell, it's a pro sport. It's always been "What have you done for me lately". Dubinsky was as good as gone a month ago. I wonder why. You think Sather would have felt the same if Dubinsky was having a 30-30 season?
Bottom line -- if Staal continues to trend downward, it makes moving him all the more justifiable. What he did before his play turned south wont mean anything if he's slumping and Macdonagh and MDZ are up for contract renewal.
Part of this is due to Staal's style of play.
Staal's strength is that he is a tremendous winner in combination of being a very good 1 on 1 player. You can tell that he has fought it out with two brothers for a long time, when he goes into a battle for the puck you don't often see anyone match his determination quite frankly. This results in Staal being able, when on top of this game, to play defense by his instincts and when a opertunity arise, engage and come away with the puck. Staal played 40 minutes a night for long parts of his junior career and have for most of his NHL career been a 25 minute player.
Staal got cross checked in the back by some 3rd line scrub a couple of weeks ago, I don't remember who it was, but I remember Staal's reaction. He got pissed and instantly turned around and cross checked the other player in the chest. Then he realized what he did and that he was standing there with his head unprotected and his two arms and stick planted in the chest of the other player -- and he immidiately half-turtled to protect his head and moved away from the scrub.
He is obviously just not comfortable right now. Its kind of a catch-22 situation. He won't become comfortable before he starts really getting into the heat again playing a ton of minutes a night, and Torts won't play him untill he is back to 100%, since he quite frankly aren't better than McD before that. He's tried for short stints, but it has not really worked out.
I think its a luxury that we can afford to "ease" him in like we are. He'll get back eventually.
I'd trade Girardi and Sauer before I touched Marc, personally. I don't want to trade any of them.
I don't see us getting Schultz, but if we do we wait to see who's good and who can be moved for an upgrade- that includes McIlrath, Schultz, Erixon, etc.
Need to make it 3 Badgers with Schultz. Smith and McDonagh came in as freshmen together in 2007. Stepan came in 2008. Schultz played just 1 year in 09-10 with these guys but they know each other. Stepan and McDonagh did attend summer school at Wisconsin last summer. The hockey players usually stay close to school in the summer.
McIlrath will probably be a player, but you never know what injuries will occur. See: Staal and Sauer.
No one knows what Sauer's situation will be next September. Instead of having another Staal situation on our hands, we could have this kid (hopefully) in camp fighting with McIlrath and Erixon for two spots. Three guys, two spots.
If Sauer is healthy, GREAT. But we would have QUALITY depth in case.
If that happened, Schultz could spend a couple/few months in Hartford getting stronger and used to the pro level.
Schultz has the potential to be a big time impact offensive defenseman. Signing him would be huge. He would instantly become our third best prospect behind Kreider and Erixon.
McIlrath will probably be a player, but you never know what injuries will occur. See: Staal and Sauer.
No one knows what Sauer's situation will be next September. Instead of having another Staal situation on our hands, we could have this kid (hopefully) in camp fighting with McIlrath and Erixon for two spots. Three guys, two spots.
If Sauer is healthy, GREAT. But we would have QUALITY depth in case.
If that happened, Schultz could spend a couple/few months in Hartford getting stronger and used to the pro level.
Schultz has the potential to be a big time impact offensive defenseman. Signing him would be huge. He would instantly become our third best prospect behind Kreider and Erixon.
I just have a sneaky suspicion that it is not just Sauer's season in jeopardy, but his career and long term health.
As long as guys like Eminger, Stralman and Woywitka are getting ice time, we do not have a surplus of defenseman. Check back with me in a year or two.
You can't let a 6th defender like that stop you from taking a cheap flyer on a very talented young offensive defenseman with a big shot, which is something we NEED on this team.
Those guys are a dime a dozen. They were all waiver fodder. There isn't much more to be said about them. Schultz, however, is a very talented young defenseman with a high ceiling. Not saying he's the answer to our power play problems (basic fundamentals have to be addressed before anything) but he will help it when he gets here if they sign or trade for him.
You can't let a 6th defender like that stop you from taking a cheap flyer on a very talented young offensive defenseman with a big shot, which is something we NEED on this team.
Those guys are a dime a dozen. They were all waiver fodder. There isn't much more to be said about them. Schultz, however, is a very talented young defenseman with a high ceiling. Not saying he's the answer to our power play problems (basic fundamentals have to be addressed before anything) but he will help it when he gets here if they sign or trade for him.
I think you mis-read his post. He's saying we DON'T have a surplus of defensemen so we SHOULD sign Schultz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer
Don't know if its been asked: Is he a right handed shot?
Not ragging on the kid, but in that first video that was posted of him it seemed like he was getting a little more time and space than he would in the NHL. Not saying this would lower his level of play but it could definitely be a big change that may affect his performance.
Schultz will have a list of teams. Wheeler had a list of teams. Wheeler's agent discussed why his client chose the Bruins
Quote:
"More than 20 NHL teams were interested in Blake, and this was a very tough decision," said Wellesley-based agent Matt Keator, who also represents Bruins captain Zdeno Chara. "And ultimately it came down to a few things for Blake, but mostly that he was comfortable with where the Bruins were headed as an organization - how this year they brought along kids like David Krejci, Milan Lucic, and Mark Stuart.
"They've done a good job of developing kids, and he wants to continue along that line."
Quote:
Just last week, Wheeler trimmed his list to four teams - believed to be the Bruins, Canadiens, Rangers, and either the Devils or Wild - and yesterday afternoon he finalized his choice when he met with Keator in Minnesota.
The Rangers have done of a good job in developing kids. Schultz can ask McDonagh and Stepan about that. Torts isn't afraid to play a young player and give him major responsibility. The players are in his age group. Mostly a North American mix. College guys. CHL guys. The Ducks are all CHL guys except for Palmieri. Its an older group. Older Euros in Selanne and Koivu.
Also,Wheeler wanted to play with his college buddy from Minnesota. Phil Kessel. They came in together as freshman in 2005 at Minnesota.
The money will be the same. Schultz will look for the right fit. The Rangers are a perfect fit.
Not sure which advisor represents Schultz. It has not been reported anywhere.
