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2012 CBA & Re-alignment: Uncle Gary Threatening Lockout (8-9-12)

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03-18-2012, 07:16 PM
  #1
Darth Vitale
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2012 CBA & Re-alignment: Uncle Gary Threatening Lockout (8-9-12)

Since it was suggested in another thread, I've created a place where we can talk about the big changes that are on the horizon this summer, and how they might impact the league, the Pens and how Shero manages the draft and signings this summer.

Some basics as I understand them, and feel free to correct me anyone:

Current CBA Expires in September - that means a new one will have to be negotiated soon. Not sure if members of the NHLPA and NHL would meet before the Finals were over (in private so as not to distract from same) but it takes time and there isn't much left. September is less than 6 months away.

Questions about whether Cap will get a big boost or not - depending on the timing of a new agreement, it could impact GMs taking a crack at getting into a bidding war for Parise, although I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell we're a part of that. Could impact our signings. This year the big ones are Staal and Sid, if Shero decides not to allow for the possibility that either become a FA next summer or get distracted by the media about it next season.

Re-alignment - This was the setup that was almost ratified, but is still on the table AFAIK.

EDIT:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=75862


Interestingly both the cap and the alignment could impact how GMs behave at the draft, for example not wanting to trade in-conference, even though prior some of those teams might've considered it in the past based on the divisions they were in.

Have fun and keep it clean.


Last edited by Darth Vitale: 08-09-2012 at 03:24 PM. Reason: Swapped out the graphic
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Old
03-18-2012, 07:31 PM
  #2
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I think a big point will be the cap. Revenue will rise which will increase the cap, but the revenue % for the cap will undoubtedly decrease to ~50% like other sports. I believe that the cap number for the next season will come out in the early summer. If so, there will be an interesting situation where for the vast majority of the summer, the NHL will be operating at a higher cap number, but if the CBA is agreed to with a lower HRR%, teams will possibly scramble to dump payroll. If it is not a drastic decrease, the teams can't bank on a rollback or amnesty being agreed upon.

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03-18-2012, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dying Alive View Post
What happened with the original one that had the Pens in the division with the ATL + Caps & Canes? That one got rejected by the players association?
That's why I asked when that picture was from. I feel like that picture is the original proposal HNIC guessed at (I think). Then the next one came out where the Pens were in the left column and TB and Fla were in the 2nd column. That was the one where they were saying it was all but done, then it was rejected.


Last edited by Darth Vitale: 03-18-2012 at 08:46 PM. Reason: Error corrected
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03-18-2012, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by FlightlessBird View Post
That's why I asked when that picture was from. I feel like that picture is the original proposal HNIC guessed at (I think). Then the next one came out where the Pens were in the left column and TB and Fla were in the 2nd column. That was the one where they were saying it was all but done, then it was rejected.

The only thing that makes me think it's a recent picture is I don't recall CJB/Det in with any Eastern teams.

I, for one, would hate that realignment.
Yeah, I thought one of CBJ or DET was always moving East to make up for Winnipeg moving to the West?

Dallas always seems to be one of the squeaky wheels but really, what can be done for them as far as travel goes? They're kind of on their own little island down there and short of picking up the city of Dallas and moving it, their travel schedule is going to be rougher than other teams. It is what it is in terms of geography. The NHL can't realign the entire league around them.

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03-18-2012, 07:45 PM
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BumFortyOne
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Originally Posted by Dying Alive View Post
What happened with the original one that had the Pens in the division with the ATL + Caps & Canes? That one got rejected by the players association?
The one in the picture [originally posted] was what was initially proposed. The one that was accepted but then rejected by the NHLPA had the Atlantic plus Carolina and Washington.


Last edited by Darth Vitale: 03-18-2012 at 08:47 PM. Reason: Error Corrected
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Old
03-18-2012, 08:37 PM
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Good catch guys...

Below is the latest table from NHL.com (correct graphic now posted)

MORE INFO: This plan WAS accepted by the board of governors but was rejected by the NHLPA apparently, just before the Vegas awards show. I don't think anything has happened since. I was (incorrectly) under the impression that it was some of the teams and not the NHLPA that had balked so looks like this might be a point of contention / bargaining chip during CBA talks.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=75862


Last edited by Darth Vitale: 03-18-2012 at 08:58 PM.
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03-18-2012, 08:44 PM
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I'm hoping that something in the new CBA is done to stop these re-freakin-diculus contracts we are seeing. Perhaps like a contract max length of like 6-7 years? No front loading to lower cap hits.

On one hand I would love the cap to go up...because I think it would be our ticket to a top notch 1RW...but then I don't want to see a team like the Flyers, Rangers, Boston, etc able to pick up an extra guy like Parise. So...on the fence about that, lol.

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03-18-2012, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
I'm hoping that something in the new CBA is done to stop these re-freakin-diculus contracts we are seeing. Perhaps like a contract max length of like 6-7 years? No front loading to lower cap hits.
I agree there should be a cap on the number of years. Grandfather the old ones in but from now on not more than 7 years. The front-loading should be limited but allowed. In some situations it's a fair solution to a guy in his early 30s lets say, who is going to be more valuable early on in the contract than later, most likely.

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03-18-2012, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
I'm hoping that something in the new CBA is done to stop these re-freakin-diculus contracts we are seeing. Perhaps like a contract max length of like 6-7 years? No front loading to lower cap hits.

On one hand I would love the cap to go up...because I think it would be our ticket to a top notch 1RW...but then I don't want to see a team like the Flyers, Rangers, Boston, etc able to pick up an extra guy like Parise. So...on the fence about that, lol.
Perhaps get 2 lower guys to better our depth on the top 9. Or 2 guys for the top line with Crosby, so Kunitz can play with Staal on line 3.

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03-18-2012, 08:55 PM
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my problem with that alignment is how little I would care about 3/4 of the league. Right now we are competing for playoff spots with half of the league instead of 1/4. That's a big difference to me.

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03-18-2012, 09:04 PM
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Indeed. I would rather the division winners are 1 and 2. Then the other 6 are based solely on points.

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03-18-2012, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
my problem with that alignment is how little I would care about 3/4 of the league. Right now we are competing for playoff spots with half of the league instead of 1/4. That's a big difference to me.
I don't think they've worked out how the playoffs would go, and that was part of the NHLPA's concern maybe? Also I doubt very much schedule weighting had been decided. Do you play rivals 1 or 2 games more than non-rivals? Play everyone the same number of times?

For playoffs they could either take top 4 teams from each new conference, or they could take the top 16 regardless of conference, which would be my preference probably. I hate this whole "ensure the southern teams get a high seed to promote the game down south" BS. Best teams should make it and rank that way, period.

The whole East-West thing goes away probably but I think in time people will not care about that. There's no real East-West hate the way there is Big Ten Pac Ten hate, for example.

Imagine how much that top slot is worth so that you get paired up with the 16 seed. That's a real reward for finishing first right there. There are a lot of ways they could slice it I guess. They could try to keep the East-West thing but there are two fewer teams then for the Eastern setup. In effect a larger proportion of the teams in the East would make the playoffs.

So they have some work to do but as far as who is aligned where I think it makes sense. And I don't think any of the big rivalries die so won't affect fan interest in terms of TV, etc.

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03-18-2012, 09:18 PM
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Keep the three divisions per conference, and the NHL will be fine.

Eastern Conference:

North East: Boston Bruins, Buffalo Sabres, Montreal Canadiens, Ottawa Senators, Toronto Maple Leafs.

Atlantic: New Jersey Devils, New York Islanders, New York Rangers, Pittsburgh Penguins, Philadelphia Flyers.

South East: Carolina Hurricanes, Florida Panthers, Nashville Predators, Tampa Bay Lightning, Washington Capitals.


Western Conference:

Central: Chicago Blackhawks, Columbus Blue Jackets, Dallas Stars, Detroit Red Wings, St.Louis Blues.

North West: Calgary Flames, Edmonton Oilers, Minnesota Wild, Vancouver Canucks, Winnipeg Jets.

Pacific: Anaheim Ducks, Colorado Avalanche, Los Angeles Kings, Phoenix Coyotes, San Jose Sharks.


Nashville joins the East, Winnipeg joins the West.

Geographically, every team is solid. No key rivalries are broken up:
  • Detroit vs Chicago
  • Ottawa vs Toronto
  • Boston vs Montreal
  • Anaheim vs San Jose
  • Pittsburgh vs Philadelphia


Last edited by JRS91: 03-19-2012 at 07:26 PM.
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03-18-2012, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by JRS91 View Post
Keep the three divisions per conference, and the NHL will be fine.

Eastern Conference:

North: Boston Bruins, Buffalo Sabres, Montreal Canadiens, Ottawa Senators, Toronto Maple Leafs.

Atlantic: New Jersey Devils, New York Islanders, New York Rangers, Pittsburgh Penguins, Philadelphia Flyers.

South East: Carolina Hurricanes, Florida Panthers, Nashville Predators, Tampa Bay Lightning, Washington Capitals.


Western Conference:

Central: Chicago Blackhawks, Columbus Blue Jackets, Dallas Stars, Detroit Red Wings, St.Louis Blues.

North East: Calgary Flames, Edmonton Oilers, Minnesota Wild, Vancouver Canucks, Winnipeg Jets.

Pacific: Anaheim Ducks, Colorado Avalanche, Los Angeles Kings, Phoenix Coyotes, San Jose Sharks.


Nashville joins the East, Winnipeg joins the West.

Geographically, every team is solid. No key rivalries are broken up:
  • Detroit vs Chicago
  • Ottawa vs Toronto
  • Boston vs Montreal
  • Anaheim vs San Jose
  • Pittsburgh vs Philadelphia
Unpossible. Makes too much sense and is too easy to do.

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03-18-2012, 09:29 PM
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LOL Nashville in the SE, i feel sorry for them already and it's just fan specculation. They would kill that division for years!

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03-18-2012, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
Unpossible. Makes too much sense and is too easy to do.


It's definitely the most rational thing to do, in my opinion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
LOL Nashville in the SE, i feel sorry for them already and it's just fan specculation. They would kill that division for years!
The South East would become such a competitive division, not that it isn't already, but who really thought Florida would be in third place right now? Who would've guessed Washington would be in 8th. I expected Tampa to make the playoffs. It's such an erratic division, especially the last several years (Aside from the Caps).

I think adding Nashville would make it harder, and add some stability.

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03-19-2012, 09:37 AM
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I am a big proponent of Nashville and Columbus in the East. I think that makes the most sense, but it seems as though the next expansion team will be in Quebec, which will make both to the East an impossible idea.

I'm more of a laissez-faire believer. If teams want to do these long term deals, that's fine, but I think the 35 year old thing should be thrown out, and if you want to sign guys to these contracts, you should be stuck with them regardless. That would see these deals cut down. Maybe take the 35 year old rule now and make it 37. I think that's more applicable.

I'd also like to see a restructuring stipulation, but there would have to be strict rules on that too.

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03-19-2012, 09:41 AM
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The best way to get read of the frontloaded contract absurdity is to have the salary for the specific year the actual cap hit.

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03-19-2012, 10:09 AM
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I sort of like the average cap hit though.

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03-19-2012, 10:15 AM
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I was under the impression that realignment was dead for next year, but as the NHLPA was using the rejection as a negotiating tactic, it was still likely to proceed the year after that, when the CBA issues were straightened out.

I'm holding out some slim hope that it will still get killed somehow, since I see the divisional playoff format as a total abomination.

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03-19-2012, 10:25 AM
  #21
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I remember thinking that they were really overkilling the divisional rivalry thing. What was it like 6 games againt them, 2 against all other teams then two rounds of divional playoffs?

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03-19-2012, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
Unpossible. Makes too much sense and is too easy to do.
This was what I was hoping for before they ever announced anything (Nashville to SE, Winnipeg to Central (or MN takes Nashville's place, WPG takes MN's place). Both geographically logical and keeps everything intact but noooo.

This whole thing is precipitated by Detroit demanding that they "are owed" a spot in an Eastern division or conference. I don't know if the NHL ever promised it or not but if it's not in writing I'd tell them to take a hike. What are they going to do, relocate to the KHL?

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03-19-2012, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by JRS91 View Post
Keep the three divisions per conference,
North East: Calgary Flames, Edmonton Oilers, Minnesota Wild, Vancouver Canucks, Winnipeg Jets.[/LIST]
Uh....... Pretty sure that those 5 teams will not be in the NE division

I think the Jackets are the most likely team to move over. To much rivalry right now between the Wings-Preds and Wings-Hawks to break any of those 3 teams away.

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03-19-2012, 07:22 PM
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I think the Jackets should be the team to move over. It makes sense geographically and I think playing in the East with rivals in close proximity would help the CBJ franchise really build up some rivalries/excitement. I guess it just depends on how much of a hissy fit Illitch throws and whether the NHL gives in.

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03-19-2012, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Zirakzigil View Post
Uh....... Pretty sure that those 5 teams will not be in the NE division

I think the Jackets are the most likely team to move over. To much rivalry right now between the Wings-Preds and Wings-Hawks to break any of those 3 teams away.
Fixed c:

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