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The Out of Town Thread part XXXV (All non Habs related news here)

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Old
03-25-2012, 11:54 PM
  #901
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
This. Possibly the only reason he's still around. He's somewhat of a talisman. I actually don't have a problem with him, but he definitely has a way with the tank this year. Another Monsieur-filled PC just for the hell of it might be necessary just cuz it usually results in a nice losing streak.

Timmins will obviously make the pick. If we somehow pick 1st overall, Yakupov should come up and pick himself.


Nail seems ballsy enough to actually do that.

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03-25-2012, 11:56 PM
  #902
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Oh come on, it's Tom Pyatt. Our PK is first in the league, that's what he was best at. Good for him if he can keep it up, but I don't miss him.
The Habs are out of the playoffs because they could not hold leads. A solid third line player like Pyatt, and his former linemates Dominic Moore and Maxim Lapierre would have made a huge difference for us. We also missed Hamrlik, made the wrong choice in signing Gill.

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03-26-2012, 12:01 AM
  #903
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The Habs are out of the playoffs because they could not hold leads. A solid third line player like Pyatt, and his former linemates Dominic Moore and Maxim Lapierre would have made a huge difference for us. We also missed Hamrlik, made the wrong choice in signing Gill.
Isn't the real goal to win the cup? And not barely make the playoffs with all 3rd liners?

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03-26-2012, 12:13 AM
  #904
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Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
Isn't the real goal to win the cup? And not barely make the playoffs with all 3rd liners?
I vote this guy as GM.

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03-26-2012, 12:16 AM
  #905
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
The Habs are out of the playoffs because they could not hold leads. A solid third line player like Pyatt, and his former linemates Dominic Moore and Maxim Lapierre would have made a huge difference for us. We also missed Hamrlik, made the wrong choice in signing Gill.
Hamrlik is looking flat out awful in WAS, I'm glad we didn't resign him and we got a nice return for Gill, so I'm not sure what's your point there.

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03-26-2012, 12:40 AM
  #906
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Hamrlik is looking flat out awful in WAS, I'm glad we didn't resign him and we got a nice return for Gill, so I'm not sure what's your point there.
How many times do we see players change teams and either perform better or worse?
Heck, we're getting a notorious reputation for trading away players that we can't manage only to see them perform better elsewhere.

Hammer was great here. Had he not gone through the stress of relocating, adapting to a new team, with a different system, new teammates, new role, etc, he'd probably have had a typical good season for us.
Also, the Caps in general have been pretty bad. They've also had a coaching change in the midst of the season. MaxPac is only 3 pts behind Ovechkin, their leading scorer, which says a whole lot.

Having him around would have been great for the prospects too. He did it with so many of our prospects, Streit, Gorges, O'Byrne, PK, and some older guys like Brisebois and Wiz, not to mention the praise Phaneuf gave him too. Having Weber by his side, or Diaz, or Emelin, would have been great for them.
It likely also would have prevented us from going after Kaberle.
Let's not forget that he was also a big minute Dman playing versus the top opposition, so in case PK or Markov couldn't do it, he'd have been there.

Gill was useless. The main arguments people had was that he was great on the PK, but like many suspected, he wasn't a difference maker there, and he also was a good mentor for Subban, but, as many also suspected, PK is actually the one that carried him, not the other way around. It was a no brainer that if you had to re-sign one of Hammer-Gill, you go with Hammer.

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03-26-2012, 01:01 AM
  #907
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
How many times do we see players change teams and either perform better or worse?
Heck, we're getting a notorious reputation for trading away players that we can't manage only to see them perform better elsewhere.

Hammer was great here. Had he not gone through the stress of relocating, adapting to a new team, with a different system, new teammates, new role, etc, he'd probably have had a typical good season for us.
Also, the Caps in general have been pretty bad. They've also had a coaching change in the midst of the season. MaxPac is only 3 pts behind Ovechkin, their leading scorer, which says a whole lot.

Having him around would have been great for the prospects too. He did it with so many of our prospects, Streit, Gorges, O'Byrne, PK, and some older guys like Brisebois and Wiz, not to mention the praise Phaneuf gave him too. Having Weber by his side, or Diaz, or Emelin, would have been great for them.
It likely also would have prevented us from going after Kaberle.
Let's not forget that he was also a big minute Dman playing versus the top opposition, so in case PK or Markov couldn't do it, he'd have been there.

Gill was useless. The main arguments people had was that he was great on the PK, but like many suspected, he wasn't a difference maker there, and he also was a good mentor for Subban, but, as many also suspected, PK is actually the one that carried him, not the other way around. It was a no brainer that if you had to re-sign one of Hammer-Gill, you go with Hammer.
Making excuses for Hamrlik's play based on Caps performance is a pretty weak argument. Gill's contract is also better than that of Hamrlik.

And Gill wasn't useless, I'm not sure how anyone can say that. He brings the leadership, he was a great mentor to PK and he's a great PKer. And it's funny you metioned O'Byrne who is basically a younger version of Gill (and he said Gill was the guy that helped him the most) and he gets a lot of crap thrown his way because of the way he plays, but as someone that appreciates a good pure defensive defensman it's nothing better than to see RoB or Gill block a shot and akwardly clear it out of their zone.

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03-26-2012, 01:05 AM
  #908
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Isn't the real goal to win the cup? And not barely make the playoffs with all 3rd liners?
Indeed it is. Now, I'm not the type to use stats often, but there are a couple worth seriously looking at together before making predictions about "Stanley Cup-winnability".

One, having a 5-5 Goals For/Against ratio greater than 1 appears to be strongly correlated with winning the Cup. You have to go all the way back to the Devils in the 2000 SCP to find the last team with a 5-on-5 Goals For/Against ratio less than one. And usually, the winners had ratios greater than 1.1, with Carolina's 1.02 being the lowest in that time period. However, once you have a value greater than 1.1, it seems like higher does not always mean better.

But we must also consider even strength scoring proficiency along with 5-on-5 GF/GA ratio. We have not eclipsed the 150 even strength goal mark in recent history.

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03-26-2012, 01:15 AM
  #909
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Kriss I don't know how you can raise Hamrlik so much and shoot down Gill so much in the same post.

Either they're both useful or they're both useless. I bet you more teams would sign Gill to his contract than Hamrlik to his.

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03-26-2012, 01:24 AM
  #910
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Kriss I don't know how you can raise Hamrlik so much and shoot down Gill so much in the same post.

Either they're both useful or they're both useless. I bet you more teams would sign Gill to his contract than Hamrlik to his.
I suspect term(and winning the Cup) was an important factor in Hamrlik decision-making because he probably knew he was not going to last much longer in the league before "the athlete's demise".

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03-26-2012, 01:26 AM
  #911
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Making excuses for Hamrlik's play based on Caps performance is a pretty weak argument. Gill's contract is also better than that of Hamrlik.

And Gill wasn't useless, I'm not sure how anyone can say that. He brings the leadership, he was a great mentor to PK and he's a great PKer. And it's funny you metioned O'Byrne who is basically a younger version of Gill (and he said Gill was the guy that helped him the most) and he gets a lot of crap thrown his way because of the way he plays, but as someone that appreciates a good pure defensive defensman it's nothing better than to see RoB or Gill block a shot and akwardly clear it out of their zone.
Making excuses? Have they not played like crap all year??? Are you also going to deny the possibility that having to relocate, learn a new system, new role, new teammates, can also affect his play?
Are you also going to deny that it happens VERY OFTEN for players to change teams and perform better or worse?

Gill's contract is better, sure, but let's not pretend like Hammer is signed through 2049 at 6M. Contract isn't even an issue here. Hammer's contract is movable and expires after next year at the very worst case.


As for Gill, yes, he was useless outside the PK. Leadership is the only thing you have to add. That's it. You have so little positive things to actually say about the man's play that you have to resort to ''leadership'' in order to justify his use. It's pathetic man.
And enough about him mentoring PK. Sure, he played his part like a good veteran, but PK actually carried Gill more so than the other way around. Gill did not make PK better, you're going to have a very tough time convincing me otherwise.

I played hockey for 10years as a defenseman. Watching someone awkwardly clear the puck by the boards is not impressive, at all. And funny you mention blocking shots considering Hammer did more of that than Gill. Also think you just flat out made up the fact O'Byrne said Gill helped him the most, I'm gonna need some proof for that because Ryan played one year here with Gill around, and both got injured. O'Byrne also had his best days in Mtl playing alongside Hammer a few years back. Ryan is a much better version of Gill btw, outside being mainly defensive Dman and big, they don't have much in common.



As I said in my previous post, you only have two arguments to cheer on Gill, his PK efficiency and his mentoring of PK. In both cases, they are greatly over exaggerated here.
It's as if people thought our PK would plummet without him, which proved to be absolutely wrong, and that Subban would apparently not be as good, which is simply ridiculous.

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03-26-2012, 01:33 AM
  #912
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Kriss I don't know how you can raise Hamrlik so much and shoot down Gill so much in the same post.

Either they're both useful or they're both useless. I bet you more teams would sign Gill to his contract than Hamrlik to his.
Because one guy actually played tough minutes for us and did fairly well, that also had to carry weaker partners and helped diminish the importance of the loss of our best player, but for some reason disappointed fans, while the other is a PK specialist that was apparently essential to us. It's ridiculous, and even more, stupid.

And I'll accept your bet, shall I make the calls?

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03-26-2012, 01:40 AM
  #913
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Making excuses? Have they not played like crap all year??? Are you also going to deny the possibility that having to relocate, learn a new system, new role, new teammates, can also affect his play?
Are you also going to deny that it happens VERY OFTEN for players to change teams and perform better or worse?

Gill's contract is better, sure, but let's not pretend like Hammer is signed through 2049 at 6M. Contract isn't even an issue here. Hammer's contract is movable and expires after next year at the very worst case.


As for Gill, yes, he was useless outside the PK. Leadership is the only thing you have to add. That's it. You have so little positive things to actually say about the man's play that you have to resort to ''leadership'' in order to justify his use. It's pathetic man.
And enough about him mentoring PK. Sure, he played his part like a good veteran, but PK actually carried Gill more so than the other way around. Gill did not make PK better, you're going to have a very tough time convincing me otherwise.

I played hockey for 10years as a defenseman. Watching someone awkwardly clear the puck by the boards is not impressive, at all. And funny you mention blocking shots considering Hammer did more of that than Gill. Also think you just flat out made up the fact O'Byrne said Gill helped him the most, I'm gonna need some proof for that because Ryan played one year here with Gill around, and both got injured. O'Byrne also had his best days in Mtl playing alongside Hammer a few years back. Ryan is a much better version of Gill btw, outside being mainly defensive Dman and big, they don't have much in common.



As I said in my previous post, you only have two arguments to cheer on Gill, his PK efficiency and his mentoring of PK. In both cases, they are greatly over exaggerated here.
It's as if people thought our PK would plummet without him, which proved to be absolutely wrong, and that Subban would apparently not be as good, which is simply ridiculous.


He said it in his interview for the Avs web site when he got traded to the Avs. He said that Gill helped him with the mental side of the game and that watching him play in the playoffs aginst Caps and Pens was a great experiance.

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03-26-2012, 04:20 AM
  #914
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
The Habs are out of the playoffs because they could not hold leads. A solid third line player like Pyatt, and his former linemates Dominic Moore and Maxim Lapierre would have made a huge difference for us. We also missed Hamrlik, made the wrong choice in signing Gill.
Moore and Lapierre yes, Pyatt no. The guy was useless. Ideally our third line would be Moore, Lappy, White.

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03-26-2012, 04:32 AM
  #915
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Brian Elliot got his 8th shutout yesterday. Ridiculous what Hitchcock did in St.Louis.

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03-26-2012, 06:20 AM
  #916
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Isn't the real goal to win the cup? And not barely make the playoffs with all 3rd liners?
Yes and yes.

We do not need "all third liners".

We need SOME third liners, but the ones we have should be able to get 7-12 goals and play mistake-free hockey when we have the lead. Said third liners should be able to be sent out on the ice in the last five minutes as one of the six best defensive players who will SMOTHER the other team's scorers.

In the 2010 playoffs when we had the lead with five minutes left, Cammalleri didn't see the ice, Kostitsyn didn't see the ice, Pouliot neither. But Pyatt and Moore did. And we won those close games.

We were not all third liners. We had the goaltending, we had the scoring in Cammalleri and Gionta, and we had the defensive specialists in Pyatt and Moore and Plekanec.

Team game, like I said. Pyatt is a great team player. The stats last year proved that the team played under .500 with him in the lineup, well over .500 without him. This year, without him all year, on top of losing Moore last year.....we lacked the top-notch defensive forwards a team needs.

It's a team game. We need scorers, and we need defensive specialists. No conflict between them.

Too bad that Tampa signed Pyatt to a two-year cheap contract, while we send out the Darches, Palushajs and Engqvists, the Desharnais and Gomez, to protect leads. When he was here, we even played Cammalleri in those situations. Not good.

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03-26-2012, 07:47 AM
  #917
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Considering the return we got for Gill, I'd say it was worth re-signing him. No way would paying 3.5m for Hamrlik, for two years, be okay.

Tom Pyatt is not a difference maker. This board would have exploded had we kept him around, look how they react to Darche.

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03-26-2012, 07:49 AM
  #918
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Only one relevant game to the tank tonight..

Tampa Bay vs. Philadelphia.

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03-26-2012, 08:19 AM
  #919
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Well, Pyatt just got his 11th goal. I wouldn't say he was *useless* for us... he skated well, forechecked... but all in all I thought too that he'd be pretty easily replaced with a player who brought something more in some area we maybe had greater need for. But I don't see that we really did replace him with anything but more scattered parts. Even aside from the injuries and all our AHL call-ups now, I could see the old Tom Pyatt (Habs version) being better than some of what we have turned to.

And it seems like he has managed to convert a little bit better now too. You could see that in his previous development years as well. He was known as a defense-only player in junior and Team Canada, but scored a fair number in his final year. Then the Rangers had basically given up on him but he came in as nearly a PPG player in Hamilton. Then showing like 2 goal potential for us. But now... 11 goals for a quick forechecking 3rd or 4th line player in the NHL is pretty good.

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03-26-2012, 08:43 AM
  #920
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Only one relevant game to the tank tonight..

Tampa Bay vs. Philadelphia.
A win by Tampa would pretty much guarantee they finish above us. They'll have 6 more points and have a game in hand on us.

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03-26-2012, 08:46 AM
  #921
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I was pretty happy with 2/3 results from today.

Then I looked at NYI's schedule



we can max get 2 points if we want a shot at #2 or #3. Florida, NYR and WSH...you better not screw us over with some bs performance. Do you want the playoffs/conference title or not?

Last 3 are tank team games so I hope if Roy is indeed going to have a hand in this he has called in ahead of time to order that Cole/DD/Patches get minimum ice time and that we play the kids (nothing against them, just for their benefit) + Bourque + Campoli to the max. Subban needs to be "always off" for the remainder of the season. Also I will tolerate the fallout of "Carey Price is an average goalie" threads if he does indeed as usual stop a ton of dangerous shots and end up losing by a goal. Trade Plekanec threads will be admissible as well.

If Bourque ends up screwing our lottery pick on the last day, Alanis Morrisette will have to re-release "Ironic" with an extra verse.
Re above: Read it. Read it again. Welcome to the NHL drafting system, which results in fans posting things like this. And I agree with him too. ****in hell.

****ing unbelievable.

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03-26-2012, 09:34 AM
  #922
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Looks like multiple teams are going to be bidding on Dan DeKeyser, regarded as the best undrafted free agent out of Western Michigan University.

Philly and Detroit look to be the frontrunners.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...mpid=137039688

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03-26-2012, 09:34 AM
  #923
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One, having a 5-5 Goals For/Against ratio greater than 1 appears to be strongly correlated with winning the Cup. You have to go all the way back to the Devils in the 2000 SCP to find the last team with a 5-on-5 Goals For/Against ratio less than one. And usually, the winners had ratios greater than 1.1, with Carolina's 1.02 being the lowest in that time period. However, once you have a value greater than 1.1, it seems like higher does not always mean better.
Saddest thing is that the Habs had it. They were a really good 5-on-5 club earlier this season, deservedly so, and just needed the PP to get untracked, and it was going to happen sooner or later.

Now, after the demolition job done on them, they're just horrible. What a bloody, inexcusable waste.

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03-26-2012, 09:42 AM
  #924
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Hamrlik was great for us but its obvious how much he's aged.

Letting him go was not a mistake.

The mistake was that we needed a replacement for him, and got Campoli and woywitka instead of a real 20 minute plus dman.

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03-26-2012, 09:48 AM
  #925
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Hamrlik was great for us but its obvious how much he's aged.

Letting him go was not a mistake.

The mistake was that we needed a replacement for him, and got Campoli and woywitka instead of a real 20 minute plus dman.
This.

I wanted to resign Hamrlik over Gill, but Hammer looks done right now. Well both have had pretty awful seasons but Gill at least serves as a PK specialist. But this season Gill was factored in as a top 4 defender and that was a disaster.

The mistake was letting Hamrlik go without really replacing him. Emelin may be a long term replacement, but he never was going to be this year.

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