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The Rebuild Thread-"You be the GM"

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03-21-2012, 03:11 PM
  #51
EspenK
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So after thinking about this for a day or so, and after last night’s debacle if I were the GM, I’d quit.

Seriously, this would be my approach:

Full rebuild mode. I do not believe this team is even close. The Jackets could conceivably finish 20 points south of 29th. A tweak here, a tweak there ain’t gonna git her done in my opinion.

Trade Nash for the most I can get for him. Try and get him to expand his list a bit to give maximum flexibility. But he is going to go regardless for the best offer. Except it would be great not to let him know this, but rather suggest to him that if he doesn’t expand the list, it is going to be a few years before this team is competitive.

While I would like to obtain a starting goalie for him. I don’t think that is possible. So,I offer a deal to RFA Cory Schneider. Vancouver will probably match but if they don’t I have my goalie. If they match, I offer Josh Harding a 3 year deal at some realistic number, hopefully around $2 million or so. If he signs I either trade Mase or buy him out. If Harding passes I’m not sure what to do. Pray like hell that Mase’s new pads are the answer I guess. Depending on how Mase plays down the stretch I either keep him or I buy him out and sign the 2 best UFA guys I can find. Maybe try and sign Dek to a 2 way as added insurance. If I could trade Mase I would.

I hire a new coaching staff. One that I believe can get the most out of what we have to work with because realistically I don’t see me being able to get a lot in return for guys who underperformed in 2011-12 and who have long term deals. And also a staff that can develop the young guys because the franchise can’t afford another 10 years of floundering.

If someone offers something for Umbie, Methot, or Brass I listen and if it is decent I take it to shake up the roster and hopefully improve the team.
It would have to be most decent for Brass. The other two not so much.

I resign Dorsett & Mackenzie for market rates for a 4th liner with maybe a slight bump to Dorsett. The two of them for 2.2-2.5 mill a year. Keep the terms as short as possible, two years maybe.

I resign Nikitin to a 3 year deal for around 1.2- 1.5 mill a year.

Goodbye to Boll(I think),Boyce and Ryan Russell, Aaron Johnson and Lebda. And Juice. He makes too much and has been injury prone.

I try and get a stay at home, shut down, physical D-man in FA for a reasonable price. In looking through the list I’m not sure there is such an animal in my price range but I’ll look. Maybe Hal Gill if the Preds don’t resign him. If I can’t I bring up Savard and see how he does. He looked okay to me while he was here but from hockeygirl’s report he hasn’t been so good in Springfield, possibly because he thinks he should be in Columbus.

My draft philosphy depends a lot on what happens with the Nash trade.

As I see it, there are two targets where I could get the most for him.

The Rangers who unless they win the Cup will be a bit more inclined to break up a bit of their team chemistry than they were at the deadline. The goal is one of their D-men, preferably a shut down type, but any one of Girardi,Stahl, McDonagh or del Zotto will do plus Brandon Dubinsky plus their #1 pick this year plus, if it could be wrangled, another prospect or young roster player. Kreider would suffice but he has to be signed first.

Toronto would be my second choice because I would love to have their #1 which looks like it is definitely going to be top 10 and may be as low as 7th or 8th. I also would try and get Lupol or Kessel in the deal. If that can’t be achieved Gardiner and another #1 pick or a bunch of picks (this years 2 and next years 1) plus Schenn might get it done.

Failing to achieve either of these trades, I guess San Jose is the next option but I don’t really have a feel of what they have that I want except Coture and they aren’t likely to part with him.

Because it is full rebuild mode, I draft Yakupov with the #1. If we have Torontos’ #1 as a result of the Nash trade, with the second pick I draft whoever is available from Grigo,Galyenchuk, Faksa, Forsberg and the top 3 d-men Murray, Trouba, and Dumba. Of these Grigo would be the only hesitation but if he was available at 8 I might take a flyer. Or maybe take the next best player available depending on what the homework reveals. If the trade leaves us with either the Ranger’s or another teams #1 plus LA’s #1 I would try to package one of those 1’s and one of our 2nds(maybe both) to see if we can move up into the top 8. if not the top 8 then depending on who is available I might make a similar trade later in the first round.

I draft a solid, physical shut down defensemen with my LA pick if we get it (and hasn’t been traded) and there is a guy I really want still on the board. If not I pass until 2013. If I haven't traded them, use my 2nds to draft a d and maybe a goalie if a real gem is available otherwise I take a 2nd d-man.

I try and trade Umbie and Methot for whatever I can get unless there is some deep dark mystery as to why Umbie sucked this year-Methot I just don’t like and his contract is tough. I trade Brass if I get a reasonable return.

I re-sign Dorsett and Mackenzie.

I pray we win the lottery next year and draft Nathan Mackinnon in 2013. Otherwise I rely on Sore Loser's report that there will be plenty of high end offensive talent next year and take the best guy I can.

I wouldn’t expect this team to be much better next year(possibly it could be worse) but a few years out this would give us the best chance of building a solid franchise.

Looking out a couple or three years my roster could look like this if I get what I want from Rangers

Yak- Brass- Kreider
Mackinnon- RyJo-Atkinson
Calvert-Letestu- Dubinsky
Jenner-Mackenzie-Dorsett
??? as 13th forward

Ranger-D-man- JMFJ
Wis-Moore
Toots-Nikitin
Savard or ???

Goalies??? (Hopefully one of the FA’s or a reclaimed Mason)

If I trade with Toronto my roster looks like this

Yak-Brass-Atkinson
Mackinnon-RyJo-2nd top 8 pick 2012
Calvert-Jenner-Letestu
???-Mackenzie-Dorsett

Wis-JMFJ
Toots-Nikitin
Moore-Savard/Methot/new guy-Murray,Dumba or Trouba if s d is selected w/second top 8 pick

Goalie??? Same as above

And in both cases a top draft choice or two or FA finds a home. RyJo and Brass could hopefully be interchanged with RyJo fulfilling his promise as the #4 pick.

The rebuild option doesn’t bring an immediate cup contender to Columbus but I think a rebuild in this fashion would have the potential to get the ball (puck?) rolling towards that goal.

Biggest question marks to me are how/can goalie situation be stabilized and can our D develop as we think (hope?) it can.

I think we can draft enough high powered offense to score some goals.


Last edited by EspenK: 03-21-2012 at 03:16 PM.
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03-21-2012, 07:36 PM
  #52
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Perhaps that additional "leadership" was just enough to prevent the epic collapse that we witnessed this year. I get the feeling all we did the last three years is manage our own decline.

There is a problem when you allow those that managed your decline to stay in power.

At any rate this is the wrong thread for this discussion.

To the original topic.

1. Free up cap room while acquiring assets. This includes trading the captain and, if possible, RJ. Trade Methot.
3. UFA's. Sign MacKenzie and Boyce to a two year deal. Investigate what it would take to bring back Juice on a two year deal. If it's Prospal or less, bring him back. AJ is gone. Lebda, depends on what is available in the FA market for a #7 D. Russell to a two-way deal.
4. RFA's. Dorse to a three year deal. Boll to a two year deal. Nikitin to a two year deal.
5. Sign Sanford to a two year deal as the backup. Acquire a starting goal tender. Send Mason to the AHL.
6. Listen to offers for Tyutin and Brassard.

Roster makeup of "keepers".

Prospal/Huselius - xxxx - xxxx (2.5 Cap)
Huselius/Prospal - Johansen - Atkinson (5.25 Cap)
Gillies - Letestu - Dorsett (2.5 - 3.0 Cap)
Boll/Calvert - MacKenzie - Boll/Kubalik (2.0 Cap or so)
Boyce (13th forward)

JMJF - xxxx (4.3 Cap)
Wiz - Nikitin (7.5 - 8.0 Cap)
Moore - Savard/Golo/FA (2 - 3 Cap hit)
1 mill cap or less for 7th D

xxxx
Sanford (1 - 1.5 Cap hit)

Around 13 million on Forwards
Around 15.5 million on Defense
Around 1.5 on backup Goal Tender

30 million entering FA, depending on what we get back for traded assets. Return assets could impact other signings on the team or dictate other moves.

Forwards I would consider on the FA Market, realizing there is little chance of any of them.

Jones, Boyes, Stoll, Kostitsyn, Hudler, Kelly

Defense, same conditions.

I would throw the farm at Suter. Carle, Oduya, Jackman, O'Brien, Lundin

Goaltenders - Vokoun, Harding

My preference would be on acquiring forwards and goaltender via trade, defense via FA.

There is your "reshape". I would consider next year a transitional year. I would not be opposed to throwing Nail to the wolves if that situation became a reality. My primary focus would be on goal tending and defense. I would get as much NHL depth as possible on the blue line. That could mean signing 3 defensemen.

Oh, one important note. My target for cap hit would be around 52 million.
I don't disagree that much.

Personally, I wouldn't bring Huselius back. Instead, I'd bring a former Jacket back--Ray Whitney. It would be 50% a marketing move and 50% a hockey move. You know what though, that worked out pretty well once upon a time when the Ducks decided to bring Selanne back into the fold.

Shane O'Brien is a guy I'd also consider adding. With him, Wiz and JJ, other teams will have to keep their heads on a swivel.

I'd trade Nash to San Jose for Pavelski, Greiss and their first round pick--if you can manage more, great. If they miss the playoffs, Wilson has to realize the windo is closing and he's either got to blow the team up or get a guy like Nash who'd have instant chemistry with Thornton.

Even with those moves the team would still need a lot of work particularly at forward. I started going through scenarios in typing up what I'd do and realized more and more that there's just no way this team is a playoff team next year unless guys like Johansen, Atkinson and whoever we draft play out of their mind. As such, I bring in (1) pieces that will help build for the long term and (2) character guys to surround and develop the work ethic in the young players like Whitney and even O'Brien.

One thing I'll quibble with people--I wouldn't re-sign Nikitin for more than two years. I'd want to see for sure what he's capable with Tyutin and I really do think that moving Tyutin should be considered to save cap space going forward. I also wouldn't break up JJ and Wiz. They have solid chemistry. What we need is a 1A or 1B pairing to add to them.

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03-21-2012, 07:42 PM
  #53
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Cap-If you move Tyutin what do you do with Nikitin? Keep him and hope the language thing isn't an issue. I have no clue if i really is or not but lots of folks have implied that it is.

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03-21-2012, 08:04 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
So after thinking about this for a day or so, and after last nightís debacle if I were the GM, Iíd quit.

Seriously, this would be my approach:

Full rebuild mode. I do not believe this team is even close. The Jackets could conceivably finish 20 points south of 29th. A tweak here, a tweak there ainít gonna git her done in my opinion.

Trade Nash for the most I can get for him. Try and get him to expand his list a bit to give maximum flexibility. But he is going to go regardless for the best offer. Except it would be great not to let him know this, but rather suggest to him that if he doesnít expand the list, it is going to be a few years before this team is competitive.

While I would like to obtain a starting goalie for him. I donít think that is possible. So,I offer a deal to RFA Cory Schneider. Vancouver will probably match but if they donít I have my goalie. If they match, I offer Josh Harding a 3 year deal at some realistic number, hopefully around $2 million or so. If he signs I either trade Mase or buy him out. If Harding passes Iím not sure what to do. Pray like hell that Maseís new pads are the answer I guess. Depending on how Mase plays down the stretch I either keep him or I buy him out and sign the 2 best UFA guys I can find. Maybe try and sign Dek to a 2 way as added insurance. If I could trade Mase I would.

I hire a new coaching staff. One that I believe can get the most out of what we have to work with because realistically I donít see me being able to get a lot in return for guys who underperformed in 2011-12 and who have long term deals. And also a staff that can develop the young guys because the franchise canít afford another 10 years of floundering.

If someone offers something for Umbie, Methot, or Brass I listen and if it is decent I take it to shake up the roster and hopefully improve the team.
It would have to be most decent for Brass. The other two not so much.

I resign Dorsett & Mackenzie for market rates for a 4th liner with maybe a slight bump to Dorsett. The two of them for 2.2-2.5 mill a year. Keep the terms as short as possible, two years maybe.

I resign Nikitin to a 3 year deal for around 1.2- 1.5 mill a year.

Goodbye to Boll(I think),Boyce and Ryan Russell, Aaron Johnson and Lebda. And Juice. He makes too much and has been injury prone.

I try and get a stay at home, shut down, physical D-man in FA for a reasonable price. In looking through the list Iím not sure there is such an animal in my price range but Iíll look. Maybe Hal Gill if the Preds donít resign him. If I canít I bring up Savard and see how he does. He looked okay to me while he was here but from hockeygirlís report he hasnít been so good in Springfield, possibly because he thinks he should be in Columbus.

My draft philosphy depends a lot on what happens with the Nash trade.

As I see it, there are two targets where I could get the most for him.

The Rangers who unless they win the Cup will be a bit more inclined to break up a bit of their team chemistry than they were at the deadline. The goal is one of their D-men, preferably a shut down type, but any one of Girardi,Stahl, McDonagh or del Zotto will do plus Brandon Dubinsky plus their #1 pick this year plus, if it could be wrangled, another prospect or young roster player. Kreider would suffice but he has to be signed first.

Toronto would be my second choice because I would love to have their #1 which looks like it is definitely going to be top 10 and may be as low as 7th or 8th. I also would try and get Lupol or Kessel in the deal. If that canít be achieved Gardiner and another #1 pick or a bunch of picks (this years 2 and next years 1) plus Schenn might get it done.

Failing to achieve either of these trades, I guess San Jose is the next option but I donít really have a feel of what they have that I want except Coture and they arenít likely to part with him.

Because it is full rebuild mode, I draft Yakupov with the #1. If we have Torontosí #1 as a result of the Nash trade, with the second pick I draft whoever is available from Grigo,Galyenchuk, Faksa, Forsberg and the top 3 d-men Murray, Trouba, and Dumba. Of these Grigo would be the only hesitation but if he was available at 8 I might take a flyer. Or maybe take the next best player available depending on what the homework reveals. If the trade leaves us with either the Rangerís or another teams #1 plus LAís #1 I would try to package one of those 1ís and one of our 2nds(maybe both) to see if we can move up into the top 8. if not the top 8 then depending on who is available I might make a similar trade later in the first round.

I draft a solid, physical shut down defensemen with my LA pick if we get it (and hasnít been traded) and there is a guy I really want still on the board. If not I pass until 2013. If I haven't traded them, use my 2nds to draft a d and maybe a goalie if a real gem is available otherwise I take a 2nd d-man.

I try and trade Umbie and Methot for whatever I can get unless there is some deep dark mystery as to why Umbie sucked this year-Methot I just donít like and his contract is tough. I trade Brass if I get a reasonable return.

I re-sign Dorsett and Mackenzie.

I pray we win the lottery next year and draft Nathan Mackinnon in 2013. Otherwise I rely on Sore Loser's report that there will be plenty of high end offensive talent next year and take the best guy I can.

I wouldnít expect this team to be much better next year(possibly it could be worse) but a few years out this would give us the best chance of building a solid franchise.

Looking out a couple or three years my roster could look like this if I get what I want from Rangers

Yak- Brass- Kreider
Mackinnon- RyJo-Atkinson
Calvert-Letestu- Dubinsky
Jenner-Mackenzie-Dorsett
??? as 13th forward

Ranger-D-man- JMFJ
Wis-Moore
Toots-Nikitin
Savard or ???

Goalies??? (Hopefully one of the FAís or a reclaimed Mason)

If I trade with Toronto my roster looks like this

Yak-Brass-Atkinson
Mackinnon-RyJo-2nd top 8 pick 2012
Calvert-Jenner-Letestu
???-Mackenzie-Dorsett

Wis-JMFJ
Toots-Nikitin
Moore-Savard/Methot/new guy-Murray,Dumba or Trouba if s d is selected w/second top 8 pick

Goalie??? Same as above

And in both cases a top draft choice or two or FA finds a home. RyJo and Brass could hopefully be interchanged with RyJo fulfilling his promise as the #4 pick.

The rebuild option doesnít bring an immediate cup contender to Columbus but I think a rebuild in this fashion would have the potential to get the ball (puck?) rolling towards that goal.

Biggest question marks to me are how/can goalie situation be stabilized and can our D develop as we think (hope?) it can.

I think we can draft enough high powered offense to score some goals.
if your plan is to offer sheet schneider it would probably take 3+ to get him to come here which means our first rounder is gone, so mackinnon would be gone

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03-21-2012, 09:39 PM
  #55
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if your plan is to offer sheet schneider it would probably take 3+ to get him to come here which means our first rounder is gone, so mackinnon would be gone
The criteria for RFA draft pick compensation in 2011-12 is as follows:

* $1,034,249 annual cap hit or less: No compensation
* $1,034,249 — $1,567,043: Third-round pick
* $1,567,043 — $3,134,088: Second-round pick
* $3,134,088 — $4,701,131: First and third-round pick
* $4,701,131 — $6,268,175: First, second and third-round pick
* $6,268,175 — $7,835,219: Two first-round picks, a second and third
* $7,835,219 and higher: Four first-round picks

I imagine this would rise a bit in 2012 so I offer the max to keep it at a 2nd. I don't see anyone offering just over the limit, my guess is you'd have to go to 4 or so to make it worthwhile to go higher. He is still just potential so I wouldn't get into a bidding war for him. I'd try to get Harding as 2nd choice if the 3 mill wasn't enough for him.


Last edited by EspenK: 03-21-2012 at 09:46 PM.
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03-21-2012, 09:46 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
The criteria for RFA draft pick compensation in 2011-12 is as follows:

* $1,034,249 annual cap hit or less: No compensation
* $1,034,249 ó $1,567,043: Third-round pick
* $1,567,043 ó $3,134,088: Second-round pick
* $3,134,088 ó $4,701,131: First and third-round pick
* $4,701,131 ó $6,268,175: First, second and third-round pick
* $6,268,175 ó $7,835,219: Two first-round picks, a second and third
* $7,835,219 and higher: Four first-round picks

I imagine this would rise a bit in 2012 so I offer the max to keep it at a 2nd.
theres no way you can lure him from vancouver with that much money without them matching, its going to be in the first rounder range for them not to match it

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03-21-2012, 09:50 PM
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theres no way you can lure him from vancouver with that much money without them matching, its going to be in the first rounder range for them not to match it
Canucks gonna tie up 8.6 mill + in 2 goalies? I don't know. They are awfully close to cap now-would have to see what the new cap and new cba bring. Now if they can trade luongo's contract then I don't see getting him anyway. Plus I don't know if they can take him to arbitration which would kibosh the possibility anyway. Either he signs for the arbs decision or he walks as an UFA. possibility of getting him is slim but he would be first option to explore.

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03-21-2012, 10:37 PM
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I can see Luongo being available in the off season. Don't know that I want that contract though. He's 32 and a lot of tread on the tires.

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03-21-2012, 10:48 PM
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I can see Luongo being available in the off season. Don't know that I want that contract though. He's 32 and a lot of tread on the tires.
Don't be so quick to dismiss 30's as dead weight. King Henry is doing quite well, perhaps the best of his career...

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03-22-2012, 06:07 AM
  #60
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Don't be so quick to dismiss 30's as dead weight. King Henry is doing quite well, perhaps the best of his career...
that is true but Luongo isn't having a stellar year (2,48 amd .916) and his playoff record (why that is relevant here I'm not sure) is suspect. Plus his contract runs till 2022 @ 5.33 mill a year. I think Vancouver will have a hard time trading him. Plus he has a NTC.

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03-22-2012, 06:55 AM
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that is true but Luongo isn't having a stellar year (2,48 amd .916) and his playoff record (why that is relevant here I'm not sure) is suspect. Plus his contract runs till 2022 @ 5.33 mill a year. I think Vancouver will have a hard time trading him. Plus he has a NTC.
I like Luango but yeah his regular season stats are in contrast to his playoff numbers.

I'm not happy with the past couple years, by no stretch, and some of Mason's issues are his alone, but I keep going back to the defense and have doubts that we would be able to see different results with someone else if we don't shore up the back end. The difference we saw by adding Jack is like night and day.

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03-22-2012, 07:36 AM
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Personally, I wouldn't bring Huselius back. Instead, I'd bring a former Jacket back--Ray Whitney. It would be 50% a marketing move and 50% a hockey move.
I have often thought of Whitney. Not sure we could get him, but I tend to agree. Actually having both of them would work fine for me.

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03-22-2012, 07:37 AM
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We aren't offer sheeting anyone, never mind Schneider.

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03-22-2012, 11:04 AM
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I'll look at next year only. I think that the Jackets face a several year rebuild to be competitive. I'll try to be realistic as well (i.e. no trade of Umberger since no GM will ever get drunk enough to take him), no top UFAs (Parise, Suter, Weber) since they ain't coming to Columbus.

The defense is pretty well set already. Not much will be done here. It's going to take a few years on the offensive side of the equation. Goalies are just cogs in the machine for the time being. Need better than CBJs have, but a top acquisition isn't vital yet as I would think that next year's team probably won't be anything more than one which might flirt with a playoff berth.

Defense:
1) JJ ($4.4m)
2) Wiz ($5.5m)
3) Tyutin ($4.5m)
4) resign Nikitin ($1.8m/2or3 years)
5/6/7) Methot ($3m)/Moore ($1m)/Savard (.$.9m)

See ya: Lebda, Martinek, A. Johnson

Totals $21.1m

Top 6 forwards: This is just one year forward. A realistic assessment

1) #1 Pick ($3.8m)
2) Umberger (have to slot him here in hopes of a rebound) ($4.6m) (likely a bottom 6 early on next year)
3) Brassard (last chance for him) ($3.2m) (could fall to bottom 6)
4) Return from Nash trade ($3.5m)
5) Sign Huselius (contingent on medical evaluation) or lower tier UFA (like Whitney) ($3m)
6) Prospal ($2.5m) (could fall to bottom 6)

See Ya Boll, Boyce

Totals $20.6m

Bottom 6
1) Resign MacKenzie (2yrs/$1.5m)
2) Resign Dorsett (2-3yrs/$1.3m)
3) Atkinson ($.9m) could move up to top 6
4) Gillies ($.6m)
5) Letestu ($.6m) could move to top 6
6) Johansen ($1.9m) could move up to top 6

Total $6.8m

Goalies:

1) Sign UFA
Vokoun or Hedberg would be more than acceptable.
2 years at $3m for either I'll guess

2) Resign Sanford to a two way deal (.7m) with a $.3m signing bonus

3) Sign RFA Cedrick Desjardins (Sanford's former teammate in Hamilton (AHL) to a two way deal (.7m)

Adios Mason

Total $4m

Payroll Totals: $52.5
Buyouts: $2.0 (Commodore, Mason)

Total $55 million or so. That will increase a bit for a roster filler defenseman and a 13th forward.

There is some room here. But I'd leave some room for acquisitions via trade and UFA acquisitions for 2012-13. I'd love for the team to buy out Umberger if the new CBA provides for an amnesty buyout, but I'll assume that won't happen. There also could be a high #1 and/or a goalie for Nash which would change my roster. I operate under the assumption that Nash should be moved-that it would be best for all concerned. Perhaps the LA Kings pick (assuming they make the playoffs) will be roster ready.

I really don't have any issue with Richards as coach. I'd give him another year. He's got some experience and seems to have a pretty good head on his shoulders.


Last edited by Cyclones Rock: 03-22-2012 at 11:30 AM.
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03-22-2012, 12:10 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by espenk View Post
that is true but luongo isn't having a stellar year (2,48 amd .916) and his playoff record (why that is relevant here i'm not sure) is suspect. Plus his contract runs till 2022 @ 5.33 mill a year. I think vancouver will have a hard time trading him. Plus he has a ntc.
i get it

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03-22-2012, 12:20 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by CBJCougar View Post
Don't be so quick to dismiss 30's as dead weight. King Henry is doing quite well, perhaps the best of his career...
Oh, I'm not. I'm in my 40's and know what dead weight really is. Shoulda got a divorce.... I keed, I keed.

I like Luongo and think he would absolutely help this team but to pay him $6.7MM for the next 5(?) years before the actual contract value goes down scares me. Not to mention he's under contract until his 40's. The cap hit doesn't bother me but if he isn't a top notch keeper for another 3-5 years, this would be a bigger problem in my opinion.

Granted it all depends on what we give up. I liked the way Blahblah outlined the reshaping. If we could actually get some young talent in the top 6 that would perform then spedning the money on a guy like Luongo now might not be so bad. I'm thinking guys like Kreider and Dubinsky from the Rangers in a Nash deal (including other parts but those two would be a nice place to start in our top 6-9). Maybe drop back a couple spots in the draft and pick up a Lars Eller or Colborne? Draft Yakupov or Galchenyuk or Forsberg. Could you pull in a guy like Paajarvi from Edmonton (buy low....)? Will Vancouver look to move Raymond in the off season? I still like him and he has experience, wheels and some skill. Lot's of young guys but the defense should be much improved and there is more coming. I also wouldn't mind adding Erixon from the Rangers if he came with Kreider. I think he has significant potential to be a top pair guy.

Anyway, all that said, you put yourself in a position with future talent you don't need to pay a ton to until 3-5 years into Luongo's contract. He's stable enough that you could develop a guy from this years draft for 3-4 years down the road and that might be a good place to start.

Something like:

Umberger Brassard Raymond
Dubinsky Eller Atkinson
Prospal Johansen Kreider
Mackenzie Letestu Dorsett
Gillies Kubalik

Lot's of flexibility and speed with enough size and grit (in my opinion). This also doesn't put our first round pick into play next year if we aren't forced to. I could see Brassard getting moved and even if he were, guys like Dubinsky and Eller are solid centers (maybe better than wing).

JMFJ Wiz
Tyutin Nikitin
Erixon Moore
Savard

I'm not sold on Nikitin right now. He seems to have taken a step back without Tyutin. Maybe that's just coincedence.... I also would consider splitting JJ and Wiz if we could get another shut down guy like Mike Sauer from the Rangers (separate deal?). Depending on how things went, you could move Tyutin for future assets if that were possible. ONLY if we had players that could replace him. I still think he's a very good #3 and would be nice to keep on board. But I would move him for the right deal.

Luongo
Mason

I only left Mase on here (I'm an advocate for potential buyout) because I really haven't looked into this hard enough. I'm concerned Sanford may have some health issues and not interested in re-signing him at this point and I don't know that a guy like Biron or Harding fits if Luongo is the starter.

This team could be competitive and start the comeback. Some question marks for sure but having some of our young players continue to develop and not having to rely on the 2012 1st to play right away could be a very good thing. We also begin to rebuild our prospect pool given the potential 5 picks in the top 61 this year.

Just a quick random thought spurred by the Luongo comment. I'll try somethign more concrete later. Could be totally different.


Last edited by Xoggz22: 03-22-2012 at 12:25 PM.
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03-22-2012, 12:21 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
that is true but Luongo isn't having a stellar year (2,48 amd .916) and his playoff record (why that is relevant here I'm not sure) is suspect. Plus his contract runs till 2022 @ 5.33 mill a year. I think Vancouver will have a hard time trading him. Plus he has a NTC.
There has been discussion he could be willing to waive the NTC even to a team like Columbus to get out from under the microscope.

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03-22-2012, 12:28 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
There has been discussion he could be willing to waive the NTC even to a team like Columbus to get out from under the microscope.
Didn't we already learn a lesson about taking on a player with a decade left on their deal at a cap hit around 5 mil a season?

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03-22-2012, 12:36 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
Didn't we already learn a lesson about taking on a player with a decade left on their deal at a cap hit around 5 mil a season?
To be fair, his contract really doesn't matter after the 2018 season. We can dump him to the AHL and let him retire in peace if he wants to. Since he will probably play at a pretty good level until he's around 38, goalies seem to hang in there longer, I'm not sure it's really much of a concern.

While I am not a huge Luongo fan, I'm not as opposed to trading for him as I was in the past. He's a pretty good goalie and quite durable.

Having said that, I think the Carter deal worked out nicely for us. I don't think things would fall in our lap quite the same way again trading for Luongo.

There is the possibility that he could be had for almost nothing.

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03-22-2012, 01:05 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
Didn't we already learn a lesson about taking on a player with a decade left on their deal at a cap hit around 5 mil a season?
I know you were just poking us (I see the little face thing), but I do want to point out that our problems with Carter were not due to length or cost of his contract, but to the fact that he signed it in Philly and was traded before the NTC clause kicked in. Lou would have to approve a trade to Cbus and, thus, would automatically start out with a better attitude. Not saying I want him, but his situation is not comparable to Carter's in that way.

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03-22-2012, 01:50 PM
  #71
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I'm going to start with the idea that I got hired at the end of the season; otherwise, I'm jumping off of the room of Nationwide Arena for being the architect of this mess.

To start with I have the following players going into next year:
Nash (7.8), RJ (4.6), Brass (3.2), Prospal (2.5), RyJo (2), Cam (.9), Letestu (.6), Gillies (.6), Wiz (5.5), JJ (4.4), Methot (3), Toots (4.5), Moore (.9), Savard (.9), Mase (2.9).

This totals to about 46.8 Mil free to spend to the cap (I'm assuming this stays level for the moment - don't spend what you don't have).
With this money I have 1 G, 6 D, 8 F.

To start the action I am going to work under the idea that I have holes everywhere but I don't have to trade anyone necessarily. Though Toots is mega overpaid.

My first step is to shore up the goalie position. I trade Methot to Minny for the rights to Harding and immediately negotiate a 3 mil contract will him. That is overpaying, but he is more proven than Bernier and Schnieder - and I don't want to lose him to Toronto. This leaves me the flexibility to use Mase as really high paid back up to see if he can continue to rebound or he can become trade bait. net change is 0 dollars and there is still about 17.5 mill to play with.

Next I need to address roster holes. My current roster might look like:
Empty - Brass - Nash
Empty - RyJo - Cam
Prospal - Letestu - RJ
Gillies - Empty - Empty

JJ - Wiz
Toots - Empty
Moore - Savard
Empty

These aren't the slots I want to keep people in so I'm going to draft and sign UFA to fill the holes. First though, I'm resigning Nik Nik to play with Toots and they are becoming the 3rd D pair. Assume Nik Nik signs for 1.7 Mil - leaves 15.9 Mil to spend. I then slot Moore up with Wiz on the 2nd pair and use Savard as my 7th. This leaves me a slot on the first pair. I know JJ, and he's gutsy so I want a brick wall next to him. I see Dennis Wideman coming off 4 mil in Was and think here's my guy. Sign him for 4-4.5 Mil to play next to JJ. This leaves 11.4 Mil at worst. The defense now looks like:

JJ - Wides
Moore - Wiz
Toots - Nik Nik
Savard

I like the balanced feel I see. Next we need to address forwards. D Mac and Dorse are getting resigned for about 1 mil each. This gives an edge for a good 4th line that can shutdown and agitate with Dorse being able to play up to the 3rd line.

I like the 3rd line as is. It has grind and it has score on it. This line is built to work hard. This leaves two slots to address on the 2nd line and 1st line. First thing I'm doing is I'm looking for some guys that are tough but can also be offensive. I like the looks of Greg Campbell, Jiri Hudler, Daniel Paille, and Adam Burish. This makes me want to work on my lower lines some more. I trade RJ at the draft for picks (2nd and 4th - 2013) and in his place I sign Greg Campbell for 2.5 Mil. This adds 2 mil to spend and leave me 13.4 Mil.

I still don't like the size of my top lines with Cam and the potential of a Yak or Hudler. And I want someone meaner to play alongside Nash and Brass. I can't find a way for that to happen though so I sign Hudler as a balanced player for the 1st line to a 2.5 - 3mil contract. This leaves me 10.5 mil at worst and a hole or two on the second line. Now I'm kind of wishing I had Umberger still to fill that slot. RyJo - Cam is somewhat of a mystery. They really seem to need a hitter who can pass. I know the fix; PA Parenteau. open market it seems like he is worth 3 mil. So at 3.5 he signs with the CBJ. Down to 7 mil. What's the roster now?

Hudler - Brass - Nash
Cam - RyJo - PA
Campbell - Letestu - Prospal
Gillies - DMac - Dorse

JJ - Wide
Moore - Wiz
Toots - Nik
Savard

Harding
Mason

Still lacking elite two way, balanced players in the top 6 (assuming RyJo doesn't make a huge leap). Right now the draft pick is being traded down to pick Forsberg, Galenchyuk, or a D man.

Here's where I'm going to go off the deep end. I go win now. I've got some experience mixed with youth. I've got youngsters developing in the minors and in the lineup (but not much). I sign Burish for 1.8 Mil and roll him for Gillies. I expect SJS to collapse and not make the finals. I look at packaging the 1 overall + Brassard for Jumbo Joe*. We do some adding and subtracting for balance. This still leaves me cap space of about 2 mil and gives the lineup:

Hudler - Joe - Nash
Cam - RyJo - PA
Campbell - Letestu - Prospal
Burish - DMac - Dorse

JJ - Wide
Moore - Wiz
Toots - Nik
Savard

Harding
Mason

I like how mean the lower lines are and the 1st line is stellar. The D can be tough enough and I figure this team gets knocked out in the second round of the playoffs. The biggest weakness is the 2nd line and a question of how the team D will do. To work on that I hire a coach who will get compete from players and will get a good team defense philosophy.

Win now mode engaged.

*Willing to do this deal for Pavelski + as well. I like Yak but getting a big center is more important. If there was a way to do both and keep Nash, then sign me up. I also think that based on scouting reports 2013 will be great draft year for forwards so I can continue to build internally.

**instant stars for the ASG as well

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03-22-2012, 02:08 PM
  #72
pete goegan
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Originally Posted by cslebn View Post
I'm going to start with the idea that I got hired at the end of the season; otherwise, I'm jumping off of the room of Nationwide Arena for being the architect of this mess.

To start with I have the following players going into next year:
Nash (7.8), RJ (4.6), Brass (3.2), Prospal (2.5), RyJo (2), Cam (.9), Letestu (.6), Gillies (.6), Wiz (5.5), JJ (4.4), Methot (3), Toots (4.5), Moore (.9), Savard (.9), Mase (2.9).

This totals to about 46.8 Mil free to spend to the cap (I'm assuming this stays level for the moment - don't spend what you don't have).
With this money I have 1 G, 6 D, 8 F.

To start the action I am going to work under the idea that I have holes everywhere but I don't have to trade anyone necessarily. Though Toots is mega overpaid.

My first step is to shore up the goalie position. I trade Methot to Minny for the rights to Harding and immediately negotiate a 3 mil contract will him. That is overpaying, but he is more proven than Bernier and Schnieder - and I don't want to lose him to Toronto. This leaves me the flexibility to use Mase as really high paid back up to see if he can continue to rebound or he can become trade bait. net change is 0 dollars and there is still about 17.5 mill to play with.

Next I need to address roster holes. My current roster might look like:
Empty - Brass - Nash
Empty - RyJo - Cam
Prospal - Letestu - RJ
Gillies - Empty - Empty

JJ - Wiz
Toots - Empty
Moore - Savard
Empty

These aren't the slots I want to keep people in so I'm going to draft and sign UFA to fill the holes. First though, I'm resigning Nik Nik to play with Toots and they are becoming the 3rd D pair. Assume Nik Nik signs for 1.7 Mil - leaves 15.9 Mil to spend. I then slot Moore up with Wiz on the 2nd pair and use Savard as my 7th. This leaves me a slot on the first pair. I know JJ, and he's gutsy so I want a brick wall next to him. I see Dennis Wideman coming off 4 mil in Was and think here's my guy. Sign him for 4-4.5 Mil to play next to JJ. This leaves 11.4 Mil at worst. The defense now looks like:

JJ - Wides
Moore - Wiz
Toots - Nik Nik
Savard

I like the balanced feel I see. Next we need to address forwards. D Mac and Dorse are getting resigned for about 1 mil each. This gives an edge for a good 4th line that can shutdown and agitate with Dorse being able to play up to the 3rd line.

I like the 3rd line as is. It has grind and it has score on it. This line is built to work hard. This leaves two slots to address on the 2nd line and 1st line. First thing I'm doing is I'm looking for some guys that are tough but can also be offensive. I like the looks of Greg Campbell, Jiri Hudler, Daniel Paille, and Adam Burish. This makes me want to work on my lower lines some more. I trade RJ at the draft for picks (2nd and 4th - 2013) and in his place I sign Greg Campbell for 2.5 Mil. This adds 2 mil to spend and leave me 13.4 Mil.

I still don't like the size of my top lines with Cam and the potential of a Yak or Hudler. And I want someone meaner to play alongside Nash and Brass. I can't find a way for that to happen though so I sign Hudler as a balanced player for the 1st line to a 2.5 - 3mil contract. This leaves me 10.5 mil at worst and a hole or two on the second line. Now I'm kind of wishing I had Umberger still to fill that slot. RyJo - Cam is somewhat of a mystery. They really seem to need a hitter who can pass. I know the fix; PA Parenteau. open market it seems like he is worth 3 mil. So at 3.5 he signs with the CBJ. Down to 7 mil. What's the roster now?

Hudler - Brass - Nash
Cam - RyJo - PA
Campbell - Letestu - Prospal
Gillies - DMac - Dorse

JJ - Wide
Moore - Wiz
Toots - Nik
Savard

Harding
Mason

Still lacking elite two way, balanced players in the top 6 (assuming RyJo doesn't make a huge leap). Right now the draft pick is being traded down to pick Forsberg, Galenchyuk, or a D man.

Here's where I'm going to go off the deep end. I go win now. I've got some experience mixed with youth. I've got youngsters developing in the minors and in the lineup (but not much). I sign Burish for 1.8 Mil and roll him for Gillies. I expect SJS to collapse and not make the finals. I look at packaging the 1 overall + Brassard for Jumbo Joe*. We do some adding and subtracting for balance. This still leaves me cap space of about 2 mil and gives the lineup:

Hudler - Joe - Nash
Cam - RyJo - PA
Campbell - Letestu - Prospal
Burish - DMac - Dorse

JJ - Wide
Moore - Wiz
Toots - Nik
Savard

Harding
Mason

I like how mean the lower lines are and the 1st line is stellar. The D can be tough enough and I figure this team gets knocked out in the second round of the playoffs. The biggest weakness is the 2nd line and a question of how the team D will do. To work on that I hire a coach who will get compete from players and will get a good team defense philosophy.

Win now mode engaged.

*Willing to do this deal for Pavelski + as well. I like Yak but getting a big center is more important. If there was a way to do both and keep Nash, then sign me up. I also think that based on scouting reports 2013 will be great draft year for forwards so I can continue to build internally.

**instant stars for the ASG as well
Interesting plan! I have no idea how realistic it is (I'm no good at that kind of analysis), but it's certainly well thought out. Only four posts? Where have you been wasting your time?

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03-22-2012, 02:10 PM
  #73
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Where have you been wasting your time?
I hate it when people have lives...

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03-22-2012, 02:30 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Interesting plan! I have no idea how realistic it is (I'm no good at that kind of analysis), but it's certainly well thought out. Only four posts? Where have you been wasting your time?
Here's what I learned (true story).

Long-ass posts are way cool and much appreciated, but take up too much time and are a poor way to pad your post count. When I joined, I absolutely loved exercises like Espen or cslebn's, but I eventually tired of the work. Now I just make fun of people but damn my post count is way up.

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03-22-2012, 02:31 PM
  #75
pete goegan
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
I hate it when people have lives...
Really, he's probably one of those kids who went out to play in the fresh air instead of settling down in the basement with his video games.

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