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Deep and Diverse Group Populate Dallas Stars Top-20

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Old
03-20-2012, 04:04 PM
  #26
piqued
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
Id go something like this

1. Oleksiak - Huge player with huge upside. Could be the type of Dman who can play in any situation for 25 minutes a night.
I don't really want to get involved with quibbling over top-20 lists, but I just wanted to agree with you here on your #1 selection. To me, it's pretty clear-cut right now that Oleksiak is our top prospect. Actually, I agree with R. Smith at #2 also.

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03-20-2012, 08:17 PM
  #27
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Not going to put up a whole top 10 or 20 but my top 5 would go something like...

Chiasson
Oleksiak
R. Smith
Campbell
Nemeth

I'm not sold on this as the actual order but until we see some concrete positivity from Campbell and not just pedigree and explaining away bad statistics with the "poor team defense." I also consider Larsen and Bachman graduated. Neither will be back in the minors anytime soon.

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03-20-2012, 10:45 PM
  #28
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I'm really curious to see how many of these players will do together in Texas, AHL next year.

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04-20-2012, 11:15 AM
  #29
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Defending Big D is starting a series on Dallas' To 20 prospects. They start today with #20 Troy Vance.

Quote:
Talking to scouts, it's clear that Vance's strength lies in his mobility relative to his size. A big defenseman like Vance usually has trouble with his skating and especially has an issue in close-quarters play where smaller players are able to use their agility to get around the big guys in front. Vance doesn't have this issue and he's been able to develop a keen ability on the defensive side of his game that shows that while he may have been considered an "offensive" defenseman when he was drafted, he likely projects a very large blue liner who can effectively move the puck out of the zone in transition when needed.

Vance is getting rave reviews about his ability to defend around the net and in transition, and despite limited power play time with the Tigers has put up fairly respectable offensive numbers.

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04-20-2012, 11:49 AM
  #30
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Think he'll ever make the NHL?

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04-20-2012, 11:58 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Think he'll ever make the NHL?
I could be remembering this incorrectly, but I don't think his defense was a strong point last season.

Assuming his game in his own zone remains as solid as it seems to have been this year I do believe he could challenge for an NHL spot. That might not happen in Dallas though. He has an uphill battle.

I believe Goli will settle into a player more closely resembling the one Dallas saw after the trade than how he finished this season. Daley will just look better and better based on his play and contract as free agent contracts continue to rise. Larsen and Dillon are getting legs up because they are older and NHL ready right now. That leaves Vance to fight for a roster spot with two more highly touted prospects in Oleksiak and Nemeth. Plus, fellow 5th round pick Klingberg probably offers more explosive offensive ability though questionable defensive play.

Finally, just based on the number of defensive prospects at the top of this draft and in the Top 50, I'd be shocked if Dallas didn't acquire at least one and maybe two promising defenders with the 13th, 43rd, and 49th picks.

If you are a big, mobile D that can defend, you'll play in the NHL. Vance is definitely moving in that direction. The right shot is an added bonus.

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04-20-2012, 11:59 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Think he'll ever make the NHL?
I don't see why he wouldn't eventually. I think the bigger issue will be if we can keep him on top of more sure things in Oleksiak, Nemeth and Dillon. I'd definitely put him in the list to replace Fistric in 2-3 years when Vance has had time to play in the AHL and may show that he's ready.

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04-20-2012, 12:02 PM
  #33
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Rather than bump a year old thread, here is the post draft info on Vance. There does seem to be a mix feeling on his defensive play at the time, especially with Dallas' scouting saying he is still learning the position:

With the 135th pick in the 2011 draft, the Dallas Stars select Troy Vance


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars scout Alex LePore
“Troy is a big puck-moving D-man with good poise. He is a good skater for his size and probably will play with the first power play unit nest season. He has a ton of upside because he is still learning the position in the Quebec league.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Vance
“I try to model my game after (Buffalo’s) Tyler Myers,” said Vance after being selected. “He’s a big guy who can skate and he is a two-way player. He has really good hands for his size and sees the ice well.”

“(Playing forward in the past) helped my hands and my vision. That’s the one thing I had, was decent hands. Moving back to D, it helps me become more of a two-way defenseman. I don’t have to be just a shutdown guy; I can be both (offensive and defensive).”

“I’ve actually been to American Airlines Center and saw a game and some of the practices. I have so much to work on but the main thing I need to work on is my feet. I’m looking forward to the future and I hope to one day be a Dallas Star.”
http://stars.nhl.com/club/news.htm?i...20in%20English

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Sallows
All signs point to 6-foot-5, 203-pound defenseman Troy Vance being a dark horse blue-chip prospect in the upcoming 2011 NHL Entry Draft. Ranked 187th overall by NHL Central Scouting at the mid-season report, the 17-year-old has since then come in and played very well for the QMJHL’s Victoriaville Tigres, scoring 1 goal, 3 assists, and was a plus-8 with 21 penalty minutes in 23 games. The native of Warwick, PA has also been excellent for the Tigres in the playoffs thus far, scoring a goal and an assist in the clubs first three games. Before joining Victoriaville, Vance suited up for 18 games with the Philadelphia Revolution of the EJHL, putting up 1 goal and 3 points. He also spent sometime with their Jr. B squad, scoring 10 points, on 1 goal and 9 assists. The Colossus American is a good skater with tremendous vision and hockey IQ, has a nice shot, gets engaged physically when he needs to, and although he sees himself as more of an offensive blueliner, he is more than capable of being responsible in his own end. Vance has sured up a Victoriaville back end that had been tumultuous to start the season.
http://dansallows.com/player-profile-troy-vance/

Quote:
Originally Posted by In Lou we Trust
Today's prospect profile looks at defenseman Troy Vance of Victoriaville. He's being slapped with the "sleeper" in the 2011 NHL Entry Draft. Someone who isn't ranked highly and will go in the middle of the draft, but could turn out to be a good prospect in a few years. Depending how a team looks at the middle of the draft in conjunction with their own reports on Vance will determine who ultimately gets him. Let's learn more about Vance after the jump.

Who is Troy Vance?

Troy Vance isn't big, he's huge. His prospect page at NHL.com has him at 6'6" and 200 pounds. Eliteprospects has him at 6'5" and 203 pounds. I don't think the difference is all that important, you'll clearly know where he is on the ice. In any case, Vance is also quite young. Since he was born on August 2, 1993; Vance is one of the younger draft eligible prospects in 2011. He's not even 18 yet, so if you like what he does now, then perhaps he can do even more later.

Vance has had a few changes in scenery in his 2010-11 season. While he ended the season as a member of the Victoriaville Tigres in the QMJHL, he wasn't in any Canadian major junior league to start the season. He stayed local and played in the Eastern Junior Hockey League with Philadelphia. As a defenseman for both junior teams, he didn't rack up loads of points per Eliteprospects; but that may not be his style of game anyway.

You don't get a lot of notice playing in the EJHL; so the move to the 'Q' was a good one if only to get more attention. It seemed to have worked. Central Scouting Services has upped his ranking from 187 to 149 among North American skaters; and the following people made a point of it to have an opinion on Vance.

What Have Experts Said about Troy Vance?

Let's start with this short take by Dan Sallows, who looked at Vance as he transitioned into the QMJHL.

All signs point to 6-foot-5, 203-pound defenseman Troy Vance being a dark horse blue-chip prospect in the upcoming 2011 NHL Entry Draft.

...

The Colossus American is a good skater with tremendous vision and hockey IQ, has a nice shot, gets engaged physically when he needs to, and although he sees himself as more of an offensive blueliner, he is more than capable of being responsible in his own end. Vance has sured up a Victoriaville back end that had been tumultuous to start the season.


This basically sums up why Vance has gotten plenty of attention. He came into a higher league, apparently helped out his team's defense, and has good traits to go with his massive frame.

Over at The Hockey Spy, Vance made Eldon MacDonald's Top 120 prospect list at #99. MacDonald has this short profile on Vance, which specified who encouraged him to jump from the EJHL to the QMJHL last season. Here's the important bit:

While Troy thinks of himself as an offensive defenseman, it is his defense that really paid dividends for Les Tigres as they made it to the 2nd round of the QMJHL playoffs after some serious struggles on the blueline earlier in the year. In addition to his monster mash and his defense, Troy has a nice shot, is a good skater and has good hockey sense. I have him as a 4th rounder but I think if NHL scouts take one look at that "monster mash" he could easily be a 3rd.

The 6’5 monster masher otherwise known as Troy Vance almost escaped the NHL draft this year playing in the EJHL but Alex LePore, a scout for the Dallas Stars, recommended the Pennsylvanian to the Victoriaville Tigres halfway through the year and the other NHL scouts are glad he did.


What MacDonald has written matches up with Sallows' noting that Vance sees himself as an offensive defenseman. Well, the production didn't show it, but then again he was only 17 and playing in a Canadian junior league for the first time. Another year and playing the whole season with Victoriaville may have his offensive skills bear fruit. In any case, the rest is good for Vance: good skating, helped out a team that was struggling on the blueline, and has good sense.

Needless to say, Dallas has been keeping close tabs on the defenseman if they sought him out in the EJHL and recommended him to go to a bigger league. It's because of this switch that Vance has received some attention. I'm sure Vance, Victoriaville, and the team who drafts him thanks you, Mr. Alex LePore, for your recommendation.

Speaking of attention, Vance has received praise from Red Line Report's Kyle Woodlief in this recent USA Today article. The article is about the top ten defensemen available in the 2011 NHL Entry draft, but Vance is specifically mentioned as one of two potential "sleepers."

Vance started the season playing very well for the Philadelphia Revolution in the Eastern Junior Hockey League, but transitioned to Victoriaville in the Quebec League in January to gain more exposure to NHL scouts in his draft year. It proved to be a good decision as he quickly put himself on the prospect map by showing excellent footwork and mobility for a gangly 6-5 kid who is one of the youngest players available in this year's draft. He had just begun to scratch the surface of his potential in the EJHL, then blossomed late in the QMJHL season and playoffs. He shows outstanding patience and poise handling the puck, always skating with his head up looking to make plays and usually making very good decisions in puck movement.

Woodlief's blurb hits on many of the same points why he's risen up through the ranks. Vance has displayed that he is a good skater, he has good vision, and he has good traits that you would want in a defenseman like decision making, patience, and poise. Plus, he's grown as a player as he entered the tougher QMJHL, which is always a positive. It doesn't mention much about his offense, but it is a short take all the same.

Lastly, the Man Who Knows Things And Now has a Stanley Cup Victory by His Favorite Team to Celebrate, Kirk Luedeke, would agree with the "sleeper" label. He's assigned it to Vance in two posts at Bruins 2011, though he wasn't as gushing with praise as with these other takes. Here's the first, which came after the QMJHL regular season ended.

Late riser:

Troy Vance, D Victoriaville-American defender is 6-5, 205 and kind of came out of nowhere after starting the season in Rouyn-Noranda. He's a big hitter, meat-and-potatoes type who will drop the gloves. From what we've seen, he reminds us a lot of Bruins rookie Adam McQuaid, but with a little better mobility than Quaider at the same stage of his junior career.


The second is where Luedeke included Vance among a number of other "sleepers" in this coming draft after Central Scouting Services released their final rankings.

Troy Vance, D Victoriaville (QMJHL)- Gigantic 6-6 defenseman joined les Tigres at mid-season and was a revelation as a hard-nosed shutdown defender with some decent mobility and better skills than his statistics might indicate. The New York native who grew up in Pennsylvania needs to improve his footwork and get a little stronger on his skates, but he has some potential as a sleeper and poor man's Jamie Oleksiak at least. His size can't be taught, and while extremely raw, has the kind of projectable tools NHL clubs are willing to take a chance on.

I appreciate how Luedeke came right out and state he's a shutdown defenseman, as I got that sense from reading the earlier opinions on him in this post. These two takes explain why that while he may be a "sleeper," he probably won't be picked earlier than the third round. Luedeke notes his skating could be better and his overall game needs help. This isn't heavy criticism; after all, Vance is a 17-year old who stepped into the 'Q' midseason. He's not fully developed yet.

An Opinion of Sorts

I have an open question: If several people call someone a "sleeper," then are they really a sleeper? I don't think anyone is sleeping on Vance if he's received this much notice and if a NHL scout encouraged him to make a move to a tougher league - which is a big reason why he has received this much notice. Then again, my definition of "sleeper" is different from Woodlief's - maybe that's the one others are using.

Regardless, there's plenty to like about Troy Vance. He's massive, he came into a major junior league and helped out his team at the young age of 17, and he has received good marks for his skating, vision, and decision making. I really don't get the notion that he thinks of himself as an offensive defenseman. He'll have time to work on that and, just as importantly, demonstrate that in a full QMJHL season in 2011-12. While it's great that he came in and contributed for Victoriaville right away, how he'll do over 72 games will be a better for his development and as a measuring stick of how he is as a player. As Luedeke indicated, there's plenty for him to work on, which should be of no surprise since A) he's a prospect and B) he's a rather young prospect.

Should the New Jersey Devils take him? I like him as a prospect and Devils will let him develop at his own pace. However, the decision does go back to what I was saying before the jump. It depends on what approach they are looking at the third through fifth rounds. I think the fourth round may be the most appropriate to take him if they are interested in Vance and he's available at 99th overall. I would like such a selection. Besides, I don't think he'll slip all the way down to the fifth round, but taking him 75th overall may be too much of a reach.
http://www.inlouwetrust.com/2011/6/2...ospect-profile

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04-22-2012, 11:00 AM
  #34
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Defending Big D's #19 prospect is Tyler Beskorowany.

To be totally honest, I was disappointed in this article. Vance's profile was well done and informative. This one just didn't have anything interesting. It seems thrown together with recycled information.

Basic point is that despite the bad team in front of him, Beskorowany struggled with confidence and positional play.

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04-22-2012, 11:55 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Defending Big D's #19 prospect is Tyler Beskorowany.

To be totally honest, I was disappointed in this article. Vance's profile was well done and informative. This one just didn't have anything interesting. It seems thrown together with recycled information.

Basic point is that despite the bad team in front of him, Beskorowany struggled with confidence and positional play.
With the way Campbell's come along recently, I think Besko's pretty much done here.

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Old
04-22-2012, 05:00 PM
  #36
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That's silly. It was 10 games.

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04-22-2012, 05:06 PM
  #37
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That's silly. It was 10 games.
Not just in the AHL.

It's more of an opinion than a fact, but Besko will take a backseat to Campbell soon.

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04-22-2012, 05:12 PM
  #38
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I doubt it. I think the organization wants Besko and Campbell to push each other. I'd bet they split time in the AHL next year. Niewy is big on internal competition.

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04-22-2012, 05:22 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued View Post
That's silly. It was 10 games.
It seems like it would have taken a ridiculously good season by besko and a terrible season by the golden boy for campbell not to pass him in the organizational depth chart. As soon as they drafed mr future franchise goalie he became the main priority, they are going to go all in on him and besko will suffer for it.

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04-22-2012, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
It seems like it would have taken a ridiculously good season by besko and a terrible season by the golden boy for campbell not to pass him in the organizational depth chart. As soon as they drafed mr future franchise goalie he became the main priority, they are going to go all in on him and besko will suffer for it.
well I'm sure in one sense Campbell has always been ahead of Besko on the organizational depth chart ever since the day they decided to draft him. It's not all about who is expected to be better for the Stars in the future, it's about what is best for both players next season.

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04-22-2012, 07:34 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistar View Post
it's about what is best for both players next season.
That's impossible in sports ... not just the Dallas Stars depth chart.

What's best for both players is they start 60 games in the AHL. One guy will always get a better opportunity in sports .. more starts, more minutes, more at bats, more touches, etc.

Txomisc's point is the organization is going to push more for Campbell, and I believe he's right. If all things are equal ... Campbell will get the nod 100% of the time.

They freaking started Campbell for 3 straight games to end the season in 3 days rather than giving a start to Beskorowany ... that wasn't in the best interest of either player IMO.

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04-27-2012, 10:40 PM
  #42
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My favorite time of year to read Mark Stepneski is here.

He recently talked with Dallas Stars Director of Player Personnel Les Jackson to talk prospects. He kicks off the summer series with Matej Stransky.

Quote:
“Of all the players in our organization, he took the biggest step in improvement this year,” said Les Jackson, Dallas Stars Director of Player Personnel. “He really had a strong season in the Western League.”

“He’s a big kid with really good hands and good instincts. We need to work on a few things with him developmentally, but that’s pretty normal for a kid his age,” said Jackson. “He’s in a good place and he’s made some good strides. He’s an impressive player.”

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04-27-2012, 10:42 PM
  #43
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Defending Big D's #18 Prospect is Scott Winkler.

Quote:
Listed as a center, he's primarily been playing on the right wing and has shown tremendous ability to use his size and intelligence to create chances from the boards. Winkler is a player that loves to get physical in front and isn't afraid to use his size, yet he is disciplined enough to not let his physicality hurt his team.

Currently, Winkler projects as a third/fourth line player at best in what is typically described as a "utility" role in hockey. Scouting reports say that Winkler doesn't have many weaknesses in his game yet nothing stands out as exceptional either; he's a player that is well rounded yet won't wow us with his skill set. What is most encouraging is that Winkler plays in almost all situations for his team and routinely was one of the top players on the roster as far as ice time.

While his skill may not be elite, he's a hard-working player who has become known for his work ethic. At 22 years old, he's relatively older for an NHL prospect and right now projects as someone who will likely become a valuable member of the Texas Stars in the near future.

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04-27-2012, 10:55 PM
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Under the new draft rules, European players like CHL players must sign a contract 2 years after being drafted or they go back in the draft.

After another good draft in 2011, Dallas will likely sign Brett Ritchie, Emil Molin, Troy Vance, and possibly Jyrki Jokipakka in the next 12 months.

Oleksiak and Stransky are already signed, but Stransky's contract doesn't count against the contract limit until 2013-14 (unless he shocks everyone and earns an NHL roster spot ... which is unlikely).

In addition, Scott Winkler and Curtis McKenzie will both be seniors next year, and therefore looking for a pro contract.

The point of all this is to say Dallas will already be very close to the contract limit this season. They will be looking at adding 5 to 7 contracts the following season from prospects alone. There will be expiring contracts, but I think you could see Winkler and McKenzie competing for a one contract since both seem to project as 3rd/4th liners.

McKenzie skipped the last prospect camp because of an apparent school conflict, and if you follow his Twitter feed you know he's a diehard Vancouver fan. I wouldn't exactly be shocked if Dallas couldn't sign him if they wanted to.

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04-28-2012, 03:49 PM
  #45
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Interesting that Oleksiak is 50th on HF's top 50 prospects and is our top prospect according to the rankings, but is not 1st in the Stars rankings.

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04-28-2012, 04:49 PM
  #46
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I guess they just forgot Campbell or something...

The moment I saw RNH at #1 I just ignored that whole list. He's not even a rookie anymore, and he's up for the Calder, but he's still a prospect, too? What the hell?

So many people look at his stats and think he's garbage. Everyone I've heard that actually watches him (and the one Texas game I saw) make him look like a franchise goaltender.

Quick question, what the Texans did (traded Ryans, picked Mercilus) got me thinking:

If Campbell were only a very slight downgrade from Kari in the next couple of years, would you trade Kari and keep Campbell? I think Kari would demand a better return, and Campbell could still be growing and get even better.

I just don't see us ever having them both playing in the NHL unless Campbell is up as a 20-30 game backup for a season. But if Kari keeps playing like this, I'm not sure you can just get rid of him, either.

That's, of course, assuming Campbell does pan out.

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04-30-2012, 10:01 AM
  #47
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Mark Stepneski takes a look at Scott Glennie's development:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Glennie
“It was a bit of a slow start with the injury there, but I think the second half went pretty well. I got my feet underneath me,” said Glennie. “It’s just getting used to the game. It took me a little while to get used to the pace, how fast and big the guys are. I think I am used to that now.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott White, Texas Stars GM
“When Tomas Vincour went up (to the NHL), Scott got a lot more ice time and he ran with it,” said Scott White, Texas Stars GM and Dallas’ Director of Minor League Operations. “His game is better. He’s learned what he needs to do to get better. He has some elements that our organization needs – quick, good hands, right shot, has the ability to score. All in all, his improvement has been steady from November on once he got healthy.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Jackson
“All the games I’ve seen down there, to me, he’s been one of the best players in the game. Until Jack (Campbell) got there, he was our youngest player,” said Les Jackson, Dallas Stars Director of Player Personnel. “He has a good season, not as far as goal scoring, but in the sense of learning how to be a pro, what it takes to show up every day and what it means to put the work in and train to be a good player every night.”

“I sense he got himself a real good foundation of what it takes to be a pro, and I don’t think he is that far from the NHL,” Jackson said. “He’s got all the tools that fit into the new game. He’s got skill, he’s smart and he’s got scoring ability. It will just be a matter of where we are in the fall. If he goes back to Texas that won’t be a bad thing for him, it will be a good thing. I suspect at the end of the day he’ll come up here and be a good NHL player.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouting Report
Has quickness and good shot. Is effective in traffic. Has good playmaking ability to go with goal scoring ability. Works well along the boards, doesn't shy away from physical play and plays a strong two-way game. Versatile, can play center or wing. Has been injury prone during his career.

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04-30-2012, 07:02 PM
  #48
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I hope Les Jackson is right. I don't take anything the organization says about Glennie too seriously though. Everyone is saying the right things about a former high draft pick.

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04-30-2012, 07:25 PM
  #49
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He's still a failure of a pick. And unless he becomes a 90 point franchise forward, he always will be.

To me, at least.

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04-30-2012, 07:26 PM
  #50
BigG44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
He's still a failure of a pick. And unless he becomes a 90 point franchise forward, he always will be.

To me, at least.
That's a pretty ridiculous statement ... and a ridiculously large scale.

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