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Old
03-21-2012, 05:05 AM
  #126
Dicdonya
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Originally Posted by Bizz06 View Post
62 points a year playing on the wing with centers that are 3rd liners on most other clubs over the last few years. Put him on Thornton's wing and he's a perennial 90 point scorer easily.
Fair enough, there is no certainty to that claim but I would not hold it out of the question as i was ready to hope for the same thing if we got him this trade deadline. Once again however who do we trade to get him and how do we replace what we will have to give up to get him when we have NO real prospects in the pipe waiting to come up and play with the big boys and we already have forward scoring depth issues?

I really am just saying that I dont think marleau is the problem, nor thornton or boyle, I think a big problem is that DW has bought WAAAAYYY too much into the cup experience/veteran idea and has taken all of the young fresh, fast, want to prove something kids out of our system hoping that role players from cup winning teams will help make our bottom lines better. It seems to be only getting us so far, and this year blowing up in our face. I mean just wonder how many potential young forwards we maybe could have had ready to step into a third line scoring position if we did not trade so many picks away for the wallins, huskins, moens, moores, etc.

I mean how do you trade away someone like mcginn who finally was starting to hit his potential for two bottom line guys, one of which isnt even playing, and the other who has like what 2-3 points since coming here? Last year we had 7 top sixers and it got us one step away from the cup, we never replaced that and once havlat went down we saw just how bad things could get with just 5 top 6ers, then to add insult to injury got rid of the one kid who was providing any goals in our bottom six.

So yes nash "could" score 90pts a season with us but who else are we saying goodbye to get him?

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Old
03-21-2012, 05:41 AM
  #127
poppap527
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ähmm ... wasnt that the japanese
Quote from the movie "Animal House." -- "The Germans? Eh, don't stop him, he's on a roll."

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Old
03-21-2012, 07:11 AM
  #128
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Quote from the movie "Animal House." -- "The Germans? Eh, don't stop him, he's on a roll."
ahhhhhh

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Old
03-21-2012, 07:16 AM
  #129
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This team will not make the playoffs.

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Old
03-21-2012, 08:08 AM
  #130
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Murray 21 minutes are you kidding me ......

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03-21-2012, 08:19 AM
  #131
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I dont get how we can beat the Preds and Wings and then lose to the Ducks and Kings. This team is ridiculously inconsistent.

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Old
03-21-2012, 08:20 AM
  #132
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62 points a year playing on the wing with centers that are 3rd liners on most other clubs over the last few years. Put him on Thornton's wing and he's a perennial 90 point scorer easily.
Like Dany Heatley, right? Nash will not be a 90 point player here and it's because of how Thornton plays and gets tunnel vision. When defenses adjust, and they will to Nash too, Thornton is too damn stubborn to use other people. That, and quite simply, Rick Nash just isn't that good to put up that many points in this day and age. He's not a top five player in the league and the top five players in this league are all going to struggle to get to 90 points this year.

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03-21-2012, 08:28 AM
  #133
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Niemi probably has the worst form of any starting or backup goaltender in the NHL. It's absolutely hideous. He's still able to stop pucks at a rate right on par with a league average starter. The saves he makes look ugly enough, but when he does get scored upon it looks especially egregious since he's usually sliding on his ass halfway to the blueline or something like that. This leads to Niemi getting more flak than he deserves. He's still an average, midlevel starter.

However, Penner's 4-2 goal last night was INEXCUSABLE. I don't care if you've made one save or one hundred saves or one thousand saves during the game, that doesn't somehow give Niemi a free pass to let one that easy slip by during the game's final push. That shot was slow, from the outside, and he got a completely clear and unobstructed look at it. It didn't change direction at all and was the definition of a routine save. Especially given the circumstances and timing, that is a save an NHL caliber goaltender has to make.

Niemi can't shoulder 100% of the blame for last night's loss, he did keep them in the game at one point and most of the team played like garbage. But like I said, I don't give a **** how well or how bad you played prior, that is a save he needs to have, especially considering that game was practically a playoff game.

I can't remember if it was Doug Wilson, a journalist, or a poster on these boards, but I remember when the Sharks acquired him someone described Niemi as having "ice in his veins," meaning he was capable of not letting bad goals bother him and could step it up in big games and big moments. This has proven to be completely false. It's obvious he has confidence and concentration issues and has had a penchant this season for team deflating goals. Again, he might stop pucks at a league average rate, but his knack for ugly, untimely goals that make you and the Sharks team sit back and groan has been uncanny this season.

He shouldn't be held responsible for all the Sharks failures this season but he's a definite part of the problem. He either needs to go or be told he has to start earning his starts. McLellan can't be handing him 60+ because he's paid more than the other guy.

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03-21-2012, 09:30 AM
  #134
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Once again I'll state the obvious. We're an average team with a pretty average roster and a painfully average goalie. Playing slightly below average hockey at the moment. When you accept the simple fact that we're just not that good, it makes this losing streak a lot less painful.

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03-21-2012, 09:39 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by bigwillie View Post
Niemi probably has the worst form of any starting or backup goaltender in the NHL. It's absolutely hideous. He's still able to stop pucks at a rate right on par with a league average starter. The saves he makes look ugly enough, but when he does get scored upon it looks especially egregious since he's usually sliding on his ass halfway to the blueline or something like that. This leads to Niemi getting more flak than he deserves. He's still an average, midlevel starter.

However, Penner's 4-2 goal last night was INEXCUSABLE. I don't care if you've made one save or one hundred saves or one thousand saves during the game, that doesn't somehow give Niemi a free pass to let one that easy slip by during the game's final push. That shot was slow, from the outside, and he got a completely clear and unobstructed look at it. It didn't change direction at all and was the definition of a routine save. Especially given the circumstances and timing, that is a save an NHL caliber goaltender has to make.

Niemi can't shoulder 100% of the blame for last night's loss, he did keep them in the game at one point and most of the team played like garbage. But like I said, I don't give a **** how well or how bad you played prior, that is a save he needs to have, especially considering that game was practically a playoff game.

I can't remember if it was Doug Wilson, a journalist, or a poster on these boards, but I remember when the Sharks acquired him someone described Niemi as having "ice in his veins," meaning he was capable of not letting bad goals bother him and could step it up in big games and big moments. This has proven to be completely false. It's obvious he has confidence and concentration issues and has had a penchant this season for team deflating goals. Again, he might stop pucks at a league average rate, but his knack for ugly, untimely goals that make you and the Sharks team sit back and groan has been uncanny this season.

He shouldn't be held responsible for all the Sharks failures this season but he's a definite part of the problem. He either needs to go or be told he has to start earning his starts. McLellan can't be handing him 60+ because he's paid more than the other guy.
Not blaming Niemi. Its a team sport. That said, historically its been a build from the goalie out .... like Lombardi has done in LA on his rebuild. DW moved away from that plan a few years ago.

Year before last DW shipped out Nabby and went cheaper in goal loading up offense with Heatley. He soon discovered we lacked on defense and couldn't live with an average Niemi AND holes in defense too. He shipped out offense (Heatley/Seto) and brought in defense (Burns). Defense hasn't solidified through the year ... either from a systems perspective or a personnel perspective. Now we have a suspect defense, suspect offense, suspect system with the personnel we have on the ice, and a suspect goalie.

That pretty much covers the gamut .... with the exception of the coaching and GM. Its a year to assign blame throughout the organization but some decisions have to be made this next season. I haven't given up hope about the Sharks making the playoffs, but getting anywhere once there is hard to imagine since the team has not yet this year shown to ever hit a stretch where they are dominant.

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Old
03-21-2012, 09:59 AM
  #136
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Niemi might not be as bad as everyone is making him out to be but he is an average to below average goalie and the Sharks do not have a good enough team to go deep with a league average goalie. The Sens went to the cup finals with Ray Emery in net in a year that he put up similar numbers that Niemi is putting up now, problem is that the Sharks cant score like that team could score. His lack of rebound control and terrible lateral movement is killing the team in more ways that people are probably over looking.

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03-21-2012, 10:21 AM
  #137
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Niemi might not be as bad as everyone is making him out to be but he is an average to below average goalie and the Sharks do not have a good enough team to go deep with a league average goalie. The Sens went to the cup finals with Ray Emery in net in a year that he put up similar numbers that Niemi is putting up now, problem is that the Sharks cant score like that team could score. His lack of rebound control and terrible lateral movement is killing the team in more ways that people are probably over looking.
This. He was signed to hopefully be an above average goalie at an average goalie price. Instead, he's been a below average goalie.

I believe that if Nemo didn't have a 4yr contract and McLellan didn't overplay him he'd at best be splitting time with Greiss.

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Old
03-21-2012, 10:24 AM
  #138
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The goal by pancake boy was just brutal. Niemi is just ... :

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Old
03-21-2012, 10:26 AM
  #139
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Once again I'll state the obvious. We're an average team with a pretty average roster and a painfully average goalie. Playing slightly below average hockey at the moment. When you accept the simple fact that we're just not that good, it makes this losing streak a lot less painful.
I'm starting to think this way. Recently i've tried to think of the Sharks as an average team battling to make the playoffs. Sadly thats exactly what they are.

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03-21-2012, 10:55 AM
  #140
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i don't understand this tunnel vision talk about thornton. it must be just an excuse to figure out the struggles of pavs.

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Old
03-21-2012, 11:15 AM
  #141
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So uh... I guess goaltending still matters huh?

Wow I have no idea where we go after this. Someone get the Michael Jackson popcorn gif.

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Old
03-21-2012, 11:18 AM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickmata View Post
Once again I'll state the obvious. We're an average team with a pretty average roster and a painfully average goalie. Playing slightly below average hockey at the moment. When you accept the simple fact that we're just not that good, it makes this losing streak a lot less painful.
Exactly. It all comes down to where you are in the standings...you could say "well this team should be better" or "this team is underachieving"... This is a team in 10th place with 9 games to play. This is an average fringe playoff team that has no momentum right now.

It is certainly painful because of the high expectations this team has but it's time to face the facts and realize that this team in it's current iteration is no good.

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03-21-2012, 12:31 PM
  #143
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i don't understand this tunnel vision talk about thornton. it must be just an excuse to figure out the struggles of pavs.
Don't forget Couture. He has been god awful after his injury.

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03-21-2012, 12:35 PM
  #144
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I was ragging on Greiss for the 5th goal in the Anaheim game, and the Penner goal Niemi let in was equally bad if not worse. Ugh. Both terrible angles and at critical times. Makes me so sad.

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Old
03-21-2012, 12:38 PM
  #145
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Also, I think Niemi would look great on a Phoenix/Blues/Rangers type squad where the system dictates the play. Sharks just don't have either the commitment or system to handle his style of goaltending.

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03-21-2012, 12:54 PM
  #146
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Don't forget Couture. He has been god awful after his injury.
I wouldn't use the words "god awful", he hasn't nearly been that bad. And honestly, every time he's on the ice he's trying to create something. He's even throwing the body each shift, something we really need

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03-21-2012, 01:18 PM
  #147
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I was ragging on Greiss for the 5th goal in the Anaheim game, and the Penner goal Niemi let in was equally bad if not worse. Ugh. Both terrible angles and at critical times. Makes me so sad.
The Greiss goal was an unbelievable shot after Murray blocked the initial shot back onto the stick of Palmieri. I fail to see how that is Greiss' fault. The timing was horrible sure, but that goal can't be pinned on Greiss or anyone else for that matter.

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Old
03-21-2012, 01:28 PM
  #148
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Did the highlights show you the 37 other saves Niemi made in this game?

I'm all for getting rid of him and going with a Greiss/UFA platoon for a total of $2mil or less but he's given the Sharks better results than Nabokov ever did after the lockout.
How do you figure that?
WCF losses, yup.
50 win seasons, check.
Top 5 on PK...oh, wait...

Nabby any day!

edit*** at least reverse mojo'ing v-cash allins against SJ can get me back to 500...

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03-21-2012, 01:45 PM
  #149
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I'm still upset about last night's game.

The anger and hurt have not subsided.

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03-21-2012, 01:48 PM
  #150
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How do you figure that?
WCF losses, yup.
50 win seasons, check.
Top 5 on PK...oh, wait...

Nabby any day!

edit*** at least reverse mojo'ing v-cash allins against SJ can get me back to 500...
We've gone just as far with Niemi as we have with Nabokov (WCF) . What are you talking about?

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