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Hockey Fights Discuss and rate hockey fights and fighters of today and from the past. Videos welcome!

Anti-fighting fans how do you like this idea?

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Old
03-21-2012, 09:04 AM
  #26
Mayor Bee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papaspud View Post
Fights used to happen with regularity during the Play-offs. The "Instigator" Rule has put a stop to most of that. And THAT has caused problems in and of itself. Facewashes? Just take it. Cheapshot? Just accept it.
If you drop the gloves, and the deserving miscreant doesn't...you sit. Sad state of affairs
I've gone on record as saying that the NHL needs to crack down significantly on post-whistle garbage. Beginning a post-whistle scrum should be an automatic minor for delay of game, in addition to whatever infractions may be committed as a result. If Player A wants to facewash Player B, and Player B pops Player A, followed by Player A shoving Player B, the penalties would look like this:
Player A - two minutes for roughing, two minutes for delay of game
Player B - two minutes for roughing
Player B's team goes on the power play

Here's my original thread from two seasons ago that contains this:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=749188

I've also said that the international high-sticking rule needs to be implemented. If a player hits another while carrying his stick above the shoulders, it's a penalty regardless of whether or not the stick actually makes contact with the opposing player.

I can go a bit further with the first idea. Let's say that Player A and Player B start shoving, and a secondary fight breaks out. Rather than either of those combatants taking an additional penalty, give the instigator to Player A. This may well lead to a bit of gamesmanship; if a star player wants to start a scrum in the playoffs, a secondary fight may break out that results in him getting an additional penalty (which, as I suggested above, should be moved up to a major anyway). I haven't put a great deal of thought into this one, since I just thought of it after hitting the "submit reply" button and this paragraph is part of an edit.

The two biggest negatives to a severe crackdown if not ban on fighting is that "the rats will take over", and that stickwork and borderline crap will become more common than ever before. Both of these adjustments here would prevent those from happening.

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03-21-2012, 09:29 AM
  #27
Pilky01
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I dont like the idea of saying "you had a concussion, so you can't fight now", but I have long been a proponent of taking the first step and instituting some kind of "limit" on the amount of fights a player can have before suspensions start being levied.

Similar to the cumulative card system in soccer. If you get too many infractions over a specified number of games you get suspended (so in soccer for example, three cards over the course of three games might result in a one game suspension).

I would put the number closer to 5 than 10 though. Once a player gets into five fights over the course of the year (or maybe 5 fights over the course of any 41 game stretch, or something like that), then suspensions start piling up.

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03-21-2012, 09:37 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
I dont like the idea of saying "you had a concussion, so you can't fight now", but I have long been a proponent of taking the first step and instituting some kind of "limit" on the amount of fights a player can have before suspensions start being levied.

Similar to the cumulative card system in soccer. If you get too many infractions over a specified number of games you get suspended (so in soccer for example, three cards over the course of three games might result in a one game suspension).

I would put the number closer to 5 than 10 though. Once a player gets into five fights over the course of the year (or maybe 5 fights over the course of any 41 game stretch, or something like that), then suspensions start piling up.
Although I think there's some merit to the idea of accumulation, I think the consequences would be undesirable. There's a lot more awareness of certain things than most people would give credit for. If it's a playoff game and four opposing players on the ice are right at their fight limit, what's the incentive to not run the goalie, or go after the star, or hammer someone after the whistle? No one can do anything about it because there'd be an automatic suspension.

In order to prevent something like that, we'd see clownish stuff in lieu of fighting before that. Basically, the type of crap that you might see in college hockey in the 1990s...facewashing, fighting with gloves on, and stickwork after the whistle. That's even less desirable than the fighting.

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Old
03-21-2012, 09:50 AM
  #29
Do Make Say Think
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Fighting will always be a part of hockey.

I think the NHL should just ban fights: players will still fight but knowing that they will be ejected after it means the fight will have that much more intensity to it.
I'm not a big fan of fighting: I enjoy a good fight, but I'd say they're pretty rare (maybe because I'm an Ottawa fan). However I do see that in a physical game like hockey fights are a necessary evil. I just think the league should settle the issue: we won't break up fights from the get-go, but once you're done you're not playing for the rest of the night.

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Old
03-21-2012, 09:57 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilersfanneedsdrink View Post
I don't get it, the staged fight is so dated and predictable, you just roll your eyes and go, here we go again, gotta waste 3 or 4 minutes watching 2 players play a game of ice dancing.

The ones that drive me crazy are the ones that happen behind a play and the goons don't even pay attention to the fact that their team is in the offensive zone and they had a chance to score. Am i the only one that gets annoyed by that?

There are enough fighting sports, i can watch boxing, i can watch MMA. I don't need to turn on my tv and see people fighting with skates on. How many fights are actually entertaining, or require any skill besides jersey pulling, fighting with a helmet or full visor on?

The game is stuck in 1970, no wonder it sucks at gaining viewership. Evolve or die. Hockey is seen as bush league in some circles because of the goon tactics that happen behind the play, the cheap shots and all the fake macho bravado. The NHL needs full clarification on the rules and not to let players get away with head shots and hitting from behind. You don't need a fighter to protect a player, you need the league to do it.

Let me ask you, do you think someone that gives another player a cheap shot and decides to drop his gloves and fight, do you really believe that after 2 minutes of dry humping that once the refs pull them off each other that the cheap shot artist player is going to be afraid to try again?
Thank you for representing the grey area. I don't know why this has become such a polarized debate, where you either love fighting (and are seen as a macho-wannabe for it), or hate it (and are seen as a wuss for it). There are a lot of fans that dislike staged fighting and goonery, but want absolutely nothing to do with eliminating fights that occur organically as a result of the inherent passion of the game.

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Old
03-21-2012, 10:13 AM
  #31
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LOL! "The game is stuck in 1970" - Do explain this, it's nothing like the game in the 70's... It's far less insane. I wish hockey was like it was in the 70's...

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Old
03-21-2012, 10:40 AM
  #32
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Just a quick note on the development of fighting over time....

I set a high benchmark of ~4 penalty minutes per game over time, and a low one of ~3 penalty minutes per game. The idea is that, with fighting always being a five-minute major, anyone who's going nuts with fighting would show up no matter what.

From the 1931-32 season to the 1945-46 season, there were either 48 or 50 games played in a season. During those 15 years, despite the obvious drop in talent during the war years, not a single player ever reached 192 penalty minutes in a season (48 x 4). During that same span, only Red Horner reached 144 (48 x 3), and his totals were 144, 146, and 167. No other individual player reached those levels even once.

From 1946-47 to 1948-49, the season was 60 games. Not a single player reached 180 penalty minutes in a season (60 x 3), let alone 240.

From 1949-50 to 1966-67, the schedule expanded to 70 games. Howie Young, who many regarded as absolutely insane, was the only player to hit 210 penalty minutes (70 x 3), and he had 267 in 1962-63. That's under the higher mark for this era, which would be 280.

Through the entire stabilizing period up through the first expansion, only two players had 3 PIMs per game (four man-seasons), and none had 4.

The schedule then went to 74, then 76, then 78 games in short order. During this period (1967-68 to 1973-74), there were six man-seasons and five players who hit the 3 PIM threshold, and Dave Schultz who exceeded 4 PIMs (348 in the 78-game 1973-74 season).

In the first 43 years that I'm looking at, there were 10 man-seasons and 7 players who exceeded 3 PIMs per game. One player and one man-season exceeded 4 PIMs.

From 1974-75 to the present (36 seasons; I'm not looking at 1994-95), there have been 201 man-seasons with 3 PIMs per game, and an additional 46 that exceeded 4 PIMs per game. I don't even know how many different players compose those 247 man-seasons, but most of the names are familiar and repeat several times. 1994-95 has a low benchmark of 144 PIMs (48 x 3). 11 players exceeded that, and Enrico Ciccone exceeded 4 per game. Basically, the total era has had 212 man-seasons above 3, and 47 that exceeded 4.

Now, keep in mind that this is simply the number of scheduled games times penalty minutes. Most of these guys didn't play in every game, and some of them didn't come close to playing even 80% of the games. Their actual PIM/games played ratio is actually much higher than 3 or 4, and I'm sure many more players exceeded these levels on their own without them showing up due to playing too few games to register a freakishly high number.

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Old
03-21-2012, 10:42 AM
  #33
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I don't think fighting needs to be removed just the staged fighting. I think the refs should have the power to eject both players that fight from the game if it is obviously a staged fight.

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03-21-2012, 12:41 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
I don't think fighting needs to be removed just the staged fighting. I think the refs should have the power to eject both players that fight from the game if it is obviously a staged fight.
Agreed about staged fighting. See neither meaning nor place for it. That said, a Iginla v.s. Lecavalier kind of fight is a completely different story. But having players with questionable skill-levels on your team just to fight a guy on the other team with questionable skill-levels brings nothing positive for me.

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Old
03-21-2012, 01:08 PM
  #35
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Go watch basketball if you do not enjoy this sport as it is.

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Old
03-21-2012, 01:12 PM
  #36
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How many concussions over the past two seasons have been caused by fights? Just curious.

I can think of one off the top of my head.

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Old
03-21-2012, 01:21 PM
  #37
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There's a reason why lacrosse is a sport on the come up. Once the NHL ****s this up and removes fighting and the hitting decreases due to increase in penalties, people will realize that lacrosse is what everyone liked about hockey. Fights hits lots of goals and intensity...

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03-21-2012, 01:21 PM
  #38
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Yes let's go back to the 70's with bench clearing brawls, two handed slashes simply because a player used skill and speed to go around you, elbows up when you are about to get checked cleanly and on and on. That's what the game is about not the game of today where speed and skill are rewarded.


Last edited by Live in the Now: 03-21-2012 at 03:54 PM. Reason: removed stuff
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Old
03-21-2012, 02:29 PM
  #39
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If you've ever played hockey you know that nothing gets a team more pumped up than a fight, no matter what kind. What really needs to disappear is the instigator and fights after a big hit.

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03-21-2012, 02:36 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeethingBurrows View Post
If you've ever played hockey you know that nothing gets a team more pumped up than a fight, no matter what kind. What really needs to disappear is the instigator and fights after a big hit.
Yup, no ones says "wow.. That was stupid of him to fight, shame, shame on him!"

I don't mind fights after big hits, it's letting the other team know that if youre going to hurt our players I'm going to beat your face in

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03-21-2012, 02:41 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeethingBurrows View Post
If you've ever played hockey you know that nothing gets a team more pumped up than a fight, no matter what kind. What really needs to disappear is the instigator and fights after a big hit.
"We need to get rid of fights after clean hits, and the only way to do that is by removing the penalty for someone jumping another player!"

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03-21-2012, 02:45 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
"We need to get rid of fights after clean hits, and the only way to do that is by removing the penalty for someone jumping another player!"
People aren't going to be so quick to retaliate if there's no instigator. Players run around and get away with so much garbage these days because there aren't any repercussions. Bring back the intimidation factor, and I don't see there being as much crap after the whistle. It's still going to be there, sure, but it won't be nearly as bad.

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03-21-2012, 02:52 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Go watch basketball if you do not enjoy this sport as it is.
if everyone thought that way, there would still be trees and shrubs on soccer pitches. Sports evolve, deal with it.

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Old
03-21-2012, 03:08 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
I like fighting, but its on its way out.

It wont be anytime soon, but once Junior bans it, (the OHL is already preparing to) the NHL wont be too far behind.

Fights will still happen, but they will result in getting tossed instead of 5 min and will be less frequent.
No, it most certainly is not. And, just like in every other sport (including NASCAR), you'll always have fighting in sports.

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03-21-2012, 03:28 PM
  #45
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Nah, let's just keep it the way it is.

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Old
03-21-2012, 03:32 PM
  #46
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I am against fighting, but believe it or not I like hockey, so your "go watch basketball" replies just sound idiotic (which they are).

And I have accepted that fighting is in the game, but I would still love it fights were eliminated.

Fighting after a clean hit or every time an opponent skates in the vicinity of your goaltender should be a suspension IMO.

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Old
03-21-2012, 03:33 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
If you don't like fighting in hockey, we don't want you as a fan anyway. Go enjoy basketball.
So, because someone doesn't have the same view on sport as you, they're not welcome to watch it?

Great way to attract new fans that.

I don't like fighting that much but I can live with it, it's the staged fights that annoy me.

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03-21-2012, 03:41 PM
  #48
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How you somone be a hockey fan and not like fighting?

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Old
03-21-2012, 03:46 PM
  #49
Sheppy
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Originally Posted by StrongIslanders90 View Post
How you somone be a hockey fan and not like fighting?
Maybe if you're a Canuck fan, they get angry at bullies...

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Old
03-21-2012, 03:47 PM
  #50
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I like fighting, but meaningful fighting.

Talentless thug fighting useless goon waters it down IMO.

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